Sick Boy
Super Moderator
If they’re transitioning, arguably a men’s changing room is also not going to be safe either.
If they’re transitioning, arguably a men’s changing room is also not going to be safe either.It's not just about risk of assault.
A man might access a woman's changing room with no other intention but to get changed.
That doesn't mean a woman may not find that comfortable, she may have previously been assaulted, you give no credence to her feelings and your suggestion is to take away that safe space.
"look at me I'm a shagger"Do you disagree with the bit?
I’ve had multiple girlfriends show me this clip as a way of understanding. Women are afraid of men and rightly so: we’re bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, more prone to mental illness, more likely to offend, and commit something like 98% of sexual assaults.
That’s why they fought for single sex provision in the first place.
That last sentence is bollocks to be honest and you’re treading close to personal experience.
Its not just about assault. At its core it’s about women’s right to assemble without men present should they wish.
You literally just said women shouldn't use women's changing rooms
If they haven't had treatment or surgery. They should go in the men's.And someone who was born a man but feels strongly enough that they’re not to undergo the full transition process, including hormone treatment and surgery, should go where exactly?
If they’ve not had treatment or surgery, then it’s different, IMO.If they haven't had treatment or surgery. They should go in the men's.
Otherwise what's to stop me deciding I'm a woman today and going in their showers?
Genuinely, have their been reports of incidents happening in the UK in changing rooms?
Yes, it's tricky isn't it. But back to the basic point, saying trans women are women is a dangerous stance to hold. It's just not that simple. Both Mordaunt and Labour are wrong.If they’re transitioning, arguably a men’s changing room is also not going to be safe either.
Women should be inherently suspicious ofmen full stop, and with good reason.
The problem is, this opens up a loop hole to allow men into women's safe spaces.
The end game is a womens shower with no women in it, just a bunch of disappointed blokes standing around looking at each others cocks.If they haven't had treatment or surgery. They should go in the men's.
Otherwise what's to stop me deciding I'm a woman today and going in their showers?
That's the thing right there in a nutshell.If they haven't had treatment or surgery. They should go in the men's.
Otherwise what's to stop me deciding I'm a woman today and going in their showers?
Yes, it's tricky isn't it. But back to the basic point, saying trans women are women is a dangerous stance to hold. It's just not that simple. Both Mordaunt and Labour are wrong.
You can't just be able to say you are transitioning into a woman and therefore be allowed into women's spaces.
It needs some very careful thought. It's not an anti trans stance. As Clint says, it's a loophole at the moment that could be exploited.
Sounds like Sunday mornings at football.The end game is a womens shower with no women in it, just a bunch of disappointed blokes standing around looking at each others cocks.
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If they’re transitioning, arguably a men’s changing room is also not going to be safe either.
And someone who was born a man but feels strongly enough that they’re not to undergo the full transition process, including hormone treatment and surgery, should go where exactly?
In which case not every man is a rapist so maybe we should make it ok for us to go in there too?I see the point that you and @shmmeee are making. I disagree with the underlying suggestion that being trans should be somehow associated with unscrupulous men wanting to find “loopholes” and novel ways to attack women. Unless someone can show that that’s the typical trans experience, that shouldn’t be the default place to start the argument - and yet here we are again.
If a person has had full gender reassignment survey, where would you suggest they get changed?
Its not just about assault. At its core it’s about women’s right to assemble without men present should they wish.
Activists will often compare sex segregation with race segregation or sexuality segregation, but the difference is black people don’t have a wildly different offending profile to white people and gay people don’t have a wildly different offending profile to straight people. To think they do is racist or homophobic because you don’t have the data to support you.
Saying men are more dangerous to women than visa versa isn’t a value judgement, it’s grounded in centuries of data. As a man I accept that and don’t want to cross womens boundaries. That allows women to have an immediate early warning system should any man cross that boundary as it immediately highlights them as a bit of a wrongun.
Well that's your summer weekends sorted then I take it.The end game is a womens shower with no women in it, just a bunch of disappointed blokes standing around looking at each others cocks.
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I’m trying to do work at the same time…You keep avoiding the issue but claim you understand it. This is a discussion on self identification not surgery
I think you might have posted this on the wrong forum, mate.The end game is a womens shower with no women in it, just a bunch of disappointed blokes standing around looking at each others cocks.
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If they haven't had treatment or surgery. They should go in the men's.
Otherwise what's to stop me deciding I'm a woman today and going in their showers?
I’m not arguing about unisex changing rooms or facilities. I’ve said here already my wife is scared enough coming home that she changes her route and talks to me on the phone until she’s back.
What I’m arguing is that a man who goes through the full transition process, which takes years to complete, should be allowed to use the women’s facilities. I am not saying that you should be able to say ‘I identify as a woman so let me in’.
You keep avoiding the issue but claim you understand it. This is a discussion on self identification not surgery
In which case not every man is a rapist so maybe we should make it ok for us to go in there too?
Absolutely not. It was a subtle way of inviting you all.I think you might have posted this on the wrong forum, mate.
I’m not arguing about unisex changing rooms or facilities. I’ve said here already my wife is scared enough coming home that she changes her route and talks to me on the phone until she’s back.
What I’m arguing is that a man who goes through the full transition process, which takes years to complete, should be allowed to use the women’s facilities. I am not saying that you should be able to say ‘I identify as a woman so let me in’.
Love that.Don’t agree but made me laugh
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Huh?
I think you’ve been quite clear in the past that you find it unfair as a man to have to hear people share stories about sexual violence etc and make assumptions about your intentions. Do you not think trans people should feel aggrieved when people talk about them in the same way?
I'm saying that by allowing it for anybody who says they are a woman while having a cock and balls means it allows wrong uns to get easy access.
I see the point that you and @shmmeee are making. I disagree with the underlying suggestion that being trans should be somehow associated with unscrupulous men wanting to find “loopholes” and novel ways to attack women. Unless someone can show that that’s the typical trans experience, that shouldn’t be the default place to start the argument - and yet here we are again.
So I think we're all pretty much on the same page and Grendel has summed it up here
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