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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,906
Grendel said:
gove my give one last chance - doubt Francois will get the numbers. You might laugh but I think Penny Mordant will try.

Raab has appeal to tbe right so may try again as well
Click to expand...
I'd agree about Mordant.
And it would be odd if Gove didn't.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,907
Brighton Sky Blue said:
And yet despite this being an open secret the party never seems to get scrutinised for it
Click to expand...
It's so odd
Because Boris has been virtually bottom of Conservative home polls for a very long time now.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,908
Grendel said:
Well Labour won’t even ever elect a female one!
Click to expand...
They should try it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,909
wingy said:
It's so odd
Because Boris has been virtually bottom of Conservative home polls for a very long time now.
Click to expand...

They’d elect Sunak I don’t think he will get through to the last two
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,910
Sick Boy said:
Francois
Click to expand...
Fabricant?

Really there is a wealth of talent
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,911
What utter c**ts.

And they wonder why they get called vile scum?


 
Reactions: Otis, Sick Boy and wingy

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,912
I do find it amazing how they (and this is by no means limited to the Tories but they use it excessively) trot out the excuse of 'not having enough time to put bills through' but will randomly call at vote in the middle of the night.

There should be a defined time limit within which votes can be made (i.e. 8am-8pm) unless in an emergency for military action and until such time as remote voting is introduced has to have at least a days notice beforehand.

It's easy to not be a complete bastard if you don't want to be.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,913
The problem with the second chamber, outside of course the elephant in the room of it being unelected, is that it is just another facet for the political parties to fight over. Directly elected people don't work either, just look at the Senate over in America, split across the same party lines.

We do need the checks and measures of a second chamber though to stop bad ideas becoming law.

What to replace it with though is always up for debate.
 
Reactions: dutchman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,914
Philosorapter said:
The problem with the second chamber, outside of course the elephant in the room of it being unelected, is that it is just another facet for the political parties to fight over. Directly elected people don't work either, just look at the Senate over in America, split across the same party lines.

We do need the checks and measures of a second chamber though to stop bad ideas becoming law.

What to replace it with though is always up for debate.
Click to expand...

I like an unelected chamber TBH, I just wouldn’t put the appointment power with the current parties (or rather severely reduce it, you do need some level making experience in there).

But what about a jury service style system. Take people for a year or more on say 150% of their average salary over the last three years or something like that?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,915
shmmeee said:
I like an unelected chamber TBH, I just wouldn’t put the appointment power with the current parties (or rather severely reduce it, you do need some level making experience in there).

But what about a jury service style system. Take people for a year or more on say 150% of their average salary over the last three years or something like that?
Click to expand...

I don’t want the quality of the upper house left to random chance.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,916
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I don’t want the quality of the upper house left to random chance.
Click to expand...

It pretty much already is, only randomly selected from MPs and rich fuckers.

My preferred system is still to give trade bodies and the like appointments.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,917
shmmeee said:
It pretty much already is, only randomly selected from MPs and rich fuckers.

My preferred system is still to give trade bodies and the like appointments.
Click to expand...

I would simply like things like health, education, transport etc in the hands of qualified individuals rather than politicians with short term limits
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,918
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I would simply like things like health, education, transport etc in the hands of qualified individuals rather than politicians with short term limits
Click to expand...

Problem is tax and therefore budgets will always be the preserve of politicians.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,919
shmmeee said:
Problem is tax and therefore budgets will always be the preserve of politicians.
Click to expand...

Again, perhaps they shouldn’t. I know having no political parties is pure fantasy but they just seem no longer fit for purpose with the challenges now facing us
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,920
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Again, perhaps they shouldn’t. I know having no political parties is pure fantasy but they just seem no longer fit for purpose with the challenges now facing us
Click to expand...
Military rule?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Deleted member 5849 and Deleted member 9744

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,921
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Again, perhaps they shouldn’t. I know having no political parties is pure fantasy but they just seem no longer fit for purpose with the challenges now facing us
Click to expand...

I don’t see how you can have democracy at all if something as basic and ideological as the size of the state isn’t under democratic control TBH.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 15, 2022
  • #9,922
shmmeee said:
I don’t see how you can have democracy at all if something as basic and ideological as the size of the state isn’t under democratic control TBH.
Click to expand...

The structure and processes could for the most part remain, but my vision is you would focus more on the people elected to roles or representation, instead of their party.

As said before I know it’s a fantasy
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,923
Interesting polling on potential next PMs. Can’t believe we forgot Patel.

 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,924
I’d like to know what the public are basing Sunak’s ability to be PM on exactly.
 
Reactions: stupot07
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,925
Sick Boy said:
I’d like to know what the public are basing Sunak’s ability to be PM on exactly.
Click to expand...

Free Nandos
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, skybluetony176, chiefdave and 4 others
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,926
Sick Boy said:
I’d like to know what the public are basing Sunak’s ability to be PM on exactly.
Click to expand...

Limited information, same as all the others. Confident when delivering speeches and apparently hard worker by all accounts. I’d imagine the furlough scheme that kept millions in work and doing nothing for a majority/all of their salary is the main reason though

The economy has done pretty well considering we are predominantly a service and consumer based/led economy and have had lockdowns to contend with…not to mention B word

Edit - also distanced himself from Johnson
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,927
CCFCSteve said:
Limited information, same as all the others. Confident when delivering speeches and apparently hard worker by all accounts. I’d imagine the furlough scheme that kept millions in work and doing nothing for a majority/all of their salary is the main reason though

The economy has done pretty well considering we are predominantly a service and consumer based/led economy and have had lockdowns to contend with…not to mention B word

Edit - also distanced himself from Johnson
Click to expand...
Exactly, it’s depressing.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,928
Truss , God help us.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,929
CCFCSteve said:
Limited information, same as all the others. Confident when delivering speeches and apparently hard worker by all accounts. I’d imagine the furlough scheme that kept millions in work and doing nothing for a majority/all of their salary is the main reason though

The economy has done pretty well considering we are predominantly a service and consumer based/led economy and have had lockdowns to contend with…not to mention B word

Edit - also distanced himself from Johnson
Click to expand...

Mate he lives upstairs from Boris and is the actual resident of no,10 and is easy to taint.

He also wants to pay for his schemes which weren't his by plunging the UK back into austerity. A Sunak led Tory party losesmost if not all of teh new seats it gained in 2019

The economy has done shite
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,930
clint van damme said:
Truss , God help us.
Click to expand...
There’s a rumour going around that she’s had elocution lessons to sound more like a pound shop Maggie.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,931
skybluetony176 said:
There’s a rumour going around that she’s had elocution lessons to sound more like a pound shop Maggie.
Click to expand...

And like Mogg people will fall for it
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,932
David O'Day said:
Mate he lives upstairs from Boris and is the actual resident of no,10 and is easy to taint.

He also wants to pay for his schemes which weren't his by plunging the UK back into austerity. A Sunak led Tory party losesmost if not all of teh new seats it gained in 2019

The economy has done shite
Click to expand...

We were talking about current public perceptions

The economy has recovered well though under the circumstances
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,933
skybluetony176 said:
There’s a rumour going around that she’s had elocution lessons to sound more like a pound shop Maggie.
Click to expand...

 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,934
Sick Boy said:
I’d like to know what the public are basing Sunak’s ability to be PM on exactly.
Click to expand...
Half price pizzas
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,935
This Operation Red Meat thing in the Sunday Times has got to be a piss take.

Solve the cost of living crisis by freezing the BBC license fee and get the military to turn back immigrants & refugees in the channel. How stupid do they think voters are?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,936
I was slightly confused that Mr Starmer conceded you could drink alcohol and share take away meals in a work setting indoors and that’s perfectly within the rules
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,937
Philosorapter said:
The problem with the second chamber, outside of course the elephant in the room of it being unelected, is that it is just another facet for the political parties to fight over. Directly elected people don't work either, just look at the Senate over in America, split across the same party lines.

We do need the checks and measures of a second chamber though to stop bad ideas becoming law.

What to replace it with though is always up for debate.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely about how each system just ends up corrupted by the main parties and voting individuals leaves a very large possibility of some charismatic slef-serving charlatan taking over and running it like a dictator.

For me second chamber should be PR based on %votes for each party in the GE. Each party gets to choose which people represent them in the chamber. Like you say, not ideal but better than a house where each change of government just leads to an ever more bloated house as they give peerages to more people to give them control.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,938
Grendel said:
I was slightly confused that Mr Starmer conceded you could drink alcohol and share take away meals in a work setting indoors and that’s perfectly within the rules
Click to expand...
Grendull in easily confused shocker.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,939
shmmeee said:
I like an unelected chamber TBH, I just wouldn’t put the appointment power with the current parties (or rather severely reduce it, you do need some level making experience in there).

But what about a jury service style system. Take people for a year or more on say 150% of their average salary over the last three years or something like that?
Click to expand...

That jury style system is the basis of how the Greeks worked it. you literally just got called in to serve. Of course, the people who could be called up was very small - had to be male, a certain age, not a servant/slave etc.

The thing that gets me the most is how when they have task forces etc they just get one of the usual crowd to head it up (jobs for the boys). Should focus around those that have experience of it, and not just in a business/professional sense. For example, homelessness should heavily feature people who have been homeless, domestic abuse by domestic abuse survivors, drug/drink/gambling policy by former addicts.

Also the desire to get expertise in from the business sector. Absoluty necessary but should look more heavily at people running charities/not-for-profits etc. Govt is supposed to provide public services so bring in those who would appear to be focused on the service element rather than those whose main concern is financial.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2022
  • #9,940
chiefdave said:
This Operation Red Meat thing in the Sunday Times has got to be a piss take.

Solve the cost of living crisis by freezing the BBC license fee and get the military to turn back immigrants & refugees in the channel. How stupid do they think voters are?
Click to expand...

it's the only move they know how to make. They are now irretrievably in the public eye and the longer Johnson tries to tough it out the worst it will be for them.

Still no one cares about parties do they.

Also to answer some people yes the blatant corruption of the PPE contracts etc. should be what is bringing them done but people are detached from that. The reason this is what is sticking is people gave up so much and lost so much and now they can see the cunts who told them to do so were laughing at them.
 
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