Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
my earlier comment was just saying to NW that the government would’ve taken a decent slice out of that estate

But as you point out, the great neice got a fortune through to reason other than distant blood ties. It's not an overly fair system!

And as mentioned, I appreciate the imperfections. That said, if you're well-off, then you're already giving your children the advantage of a stable home, good education etc, let alone any inheritance. Gordon Ramsey certainly isn't handing it all over, but they still get a bump beyond many.

Gordon Ramsay: 'My fortune won't be going to my children in my will'

Gordon Ramsay is not known for mincing his words, so it should come as no surprise to learn that writing up an interview with the outspoken chef is akin to devising an elaborate game of “fill in the blanks”.

www.telegraph.co.uk

(The precis is here, as that's now paywalled!)

Perhaps the clearest indication of the Ramseys' attitude to money, however, is the way they treat the kids. In 2017, the Telegraph reported that the Ramsey children are not allowed to fly first-class alongside their parents unless they pay for it themselves. Until then, they sit in coach. Ramsay's view is that luxuries are more appreciated when they've been worked for.

Other Ramsay parenting tips: the kids get about $65 per week each to pay for their phones and bus fare, and they have to learn to cook (of course) because feeding yourself is a life skill.

But by far the biggest revelation comes on the subject of the Ramsay kids' inheritance. Spoiler: they're not getting anything.

Ramsay told the Telegraph that almost none of that $220 million net worth will be automatically divided amongst his children's bank accounts when the time comes.

"The only thing I've agreed with Tana is they get a 25% deposit on a flat, but not the whole flat," he said.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
Don't worry mate, we'll keep an emergency flat in Cyprus just incase my son goes rogue.

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The dealers and organised crime Dons will still find you!

Ian1779 · Nov 22, 2021

Grendel said:
Why? Many have worked hard to own said house. It’s theirs they earned it - earned.

If everyone had an opportunity to purchase their own property based on hard work alone then your point would stand up a lot more.

clint van damme · Nov 22, 2021

Ladies and gentleman, your Prime Minister

CCFCSteve · Nov 22, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
But as you point out, the great neice got a fortune through to reason other than distant blood ties. It's not an overly fair system!

And as mentioned, I appreciate the imperfections. That said, if you're well-off, then you're already giving your children the advantage of a stable home, good education etc, let alone any inheritance. Gordon Ramsey certainly isn't handing it all over, but they still get a bump beyond many.

Gordon Ramsay: 'My fortune won't be going to my children in my will'

Gordon Ramsay is not known for mincing his words, so it should come as no surprise to learn that writing up an interview with the outspoken chef is akin to devising an elaborate game of “fill in the blanks”.

www.telegraph.co.uk

(The precis is here, as that's now paywalled!)

Hmmm, I accept a lot of the above but who says well off have a stable home ?! Some kids shunted off to boarding schools, many receiving a lack of love or interest from one or both parents and still the possibility of broken homes etc etc.

I like people like Ramsey’s views on inheritance (think Daniel Craig came out with something similar recently) what can be considered as a gift can end up being a burden and drain on ambition and I’d imagine lead to some kids not fulfilling their potential. Ultimately, after paying IHT it should be the individuals choice on what they do with their cash though. a lot give significant amounts to charities...many of which might well utilise it better than the government !

skybluetony176 · Nov 22, 2021

clint van damme said:
Ladies and gentleman, your Prime Minister

Imagine if Diane Abbot…

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Hmmm, I accept a lot of the above but who says well off have a stable home ?! Some kids shunted off to boarding schools, many receiving a lack of love or interest from one or both parents and still the possibility of broken homes etc etc.

I like people like Ramsey’s views on inheritance (think Daniel Craig came out with something similar recently) what can be considered as a gift can end up being a burden and drain on ambition and I’d imagine lead to some kids not fulfilling their potential. Ultimately, after paying IHT it should be the individuals choice on what they do with their cash though. a lot give significant amounts to charities...many of which might well utilise it better than the government !

I could be wrong but contacts still in the area told me Craig bought either his or his wife's kid (can't remember which) a huge house in Leek Wootton just to go to Uni in the area. Presumably Uni of Warwick.

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TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
Imagine if Diane Abbot…

You need to let Abbot go mate. If he turned up with his shoes on the correct way around he's already one up on her.

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Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
I could be wrong but contacts still in the area told me Craig bought either his or his wife's kid (can't remember which) a huge house in Leek Wootton just to go to Uni in the area. Presumably Uni of Warwick.

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He looked, but they didn't buy in the end. Have to make do with Jasper Carrot, Bev Bevan, and Tony Iommi as the celebrity Warwickshire lot.

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
He looked, but they didn't buy in the end. Have to make do with Jasper Carrot, Bev Bevan, and Tony Iommi as the celebrity Warwickshire lot.

I'm sure someone reported seeing him at the gym in The Warwickshire. From what I could gather he got one for himself and then another for the kid further down the line. You know how rumours get though.
Oh don't forget Grant Mitchell and Ian Beale...

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Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
I'm sure someone reported seeing him at the gym in The Warwickshire.

People saw Russian soldiers on their trains in WW1, because of a supply of Russian eggs!

Didn't know the Ross Kemp one - where's he live?

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
People saw Russian soldiers on their trains in WW1, because of a supply of Russian eggs!

Didn't know the Ross Kemp one - where's he live?

The not so nice end of Leamington bizarrely

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Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
The not so nice end of Leamington bizarrely

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If true, that's another one I'll have to cyberstalk and be ignored by.

He can hook up with Mike Brewer for a pint, then!

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
If true, that's another one I'll have to cyberstalk and be ignored by.

He can hook up with Mike Brewer for a pint, then!

You could also find Peter Shilton in Kenilworth, sure he'd be happy to have a good old moan about Maradona if you wanted to join in.

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chiefdave · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
The not so nice end of Leamington bizarrely

Is he making a documentary about the rough side of Leamington?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 22, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
At the moment everyone pays the total value of care barring a tiny sum and many still receive shit care. Nearly everyone benefits from the proposals. One of the main beneficiaries will be younger people who will at least receive some kind of inheritance now (even from average house price) and could use it to get on the ladder. The richer, assuming their assets remain in their estate, will have a bigger inheritance tax bill which comes back into the pot anyway

A higher proportion of the additional NIC which will be used to fund better care for all, will be paid for by bigger businesses and higher paid employees.

As I mentioned it’s an imperfect solution and I’d rather the very rich make an additional contribution but as discussed these people are out of the system anyway even though many probably would’ve contributed a lot towards it. The poorest in society should hopefully get better free care in future...if nhs doesn’t swallow the additional cash

You've fallen hook, line and sinker for the 'everyone benefits' line. It benefits those who have the most ability to pay the most. The people most likely to lose out will be those who have modest assets, the people most likely to gain are those with lots. It is more than an imperfect solution - it's an absolutely terrible choice and there are far fairer ways of doing it.

NIC has an upper earnings limit so above a certain wage they pay no more than someone earning less than them. So again it is those on modest wages that will see the biggest proportion of their wages taken.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
I'll be signing over everything I own to my son long before I'm dead so the government don't get their grubby mits on a single penny. I've earned it, I've paid tax on it, I want my son to have it. Inheritance tax my arse.

But your son hasn't earned it has he? The business I work for has earned the money before they pay me, so why should I pay tax on it? When a workmen does a job for me why should he pay tax on the money seeing as I've already paid tax when I earned it?

It seems that we're at a bonkers situation whereby if you work for your money you should pay tax on it, if someone just hands it to you then you shouldn't. Absolutely bizarre.

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But your son hasn't earned it has he? The business I work for has earned the money before they pay me, so why should I pay tax on it? When a workmen does a job for me why should he pay tax on the money seeing as I've already paid tax when I earned it?

It seems that we're at a bonkers situation whereby if you work for your money you should pay tax on it, if someone just hands it to you then you shouldn't. Absolutely bizarre.

No he hasn't I have, and if I choose to give it all to my son before I'm dead no one can say anything about how I use my money.

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 22, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's how I'd rectify it, make inheritance tax more progressive.

It's a difficult thing, inheritance. It seems fundamentally unfair to get a leg up because your parents, not you, have worked hard... and I think back to somebody I knew who died, who had no children or surviving siblings, so a random great neice they'd never met got the entire £1mil+ estate!

But at the same time, I'm not going to refuse anything my parents are able to leave me, out of principle!

shmmeee said:
Never got this “already taxed income” line. All money has been taxed before. I don’t not pay VAT on my shopping because I paid income tax on my wages. And Aldi will take that income and use some to pay business rates. You don’t tax money you tax transfers of money.

Progressive inheritance tax would be a better means than the flat one, although the biggest problem is the ultra-rich just putting their money where it can't be got at.

I'm thinking of the possibility of changing it from treating it as inheritance to income, so rather than it being a tax paid by the dead person it's paid by the beneficiaries. Essentially treating them as having earned it. Still has potential loopholes of course - ensuring the beneficiary is a UK taxpayer etc.

Then a person leaving the inheritance can decide whether to give it all in one go and take the massive tax hit or spread it out so the beneficiary can make more use of their personal allowances etc. If the estate is spread out among more people then the allowances of all the people will result in a lower tax take but all the wealth will be distributed out more. If one person gets it they'll take a bigger hit.

It'd need proper data I don't have access to in order to work out how much it would raise relative to current legislation and work out where it might be open to abuse.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
No he hasn't I have, and if I choose to give it all to my son before I'm dead no one can say anything about how I use my money.

It's my money, I've paid tax on it and if I chose to pay the workmen cash in hand so they don't pay tax who are the government to tell me I shouldn't? In fact, why don't I just gift him the money as a nice gesture and if he then chooses to do some work for me just as a friend what's the problem?

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It's my money, I've paid tax on it and if I chose to pay the workmen cash in hand so they don't pay tax who are the government to tell me I shouldn't? In fact why, don't I just gift him the money as a nice gesture and if he then chooses to do some work for me just as a friend what's the problem?

Completely different, absolute load of rubbish as usual. I'm going to do it anyway and it's perfectly within the law, I'm sure you'll get over it.

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Grendel · Nov 22, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Progressive inheritance tax would be a better means than the flat one, although the biggest problem is the ultra-rich just putting their money where it can't be got at.

I'm thinking of the possibility of changing it from treating it as inheritance to income, so rather than it being a tax paid by the dead person it's paid by the beneficiaries. Essentially treating them as having earned it. Still has potential loopholes of course - ensuring the beneficiary is a UK taxpayer etc.

Then a person leaving the inheritance can decide whether to give it all in one go and take the massive tax hit or spread it out so the beneficiary can make more use of their personal allowances etc. If the estate is spread out among more people then the allowances of all the people will result in a lower tax take but all the wealth will be distributed out more. If one person gets it they'll take a bigger hit.

It'd need proper data I don't have access to in order to work out how much it would raise relative to current legislation and work out where it might be open to abuse.

I’ve got most of my money in a discretionary trust - it does exactly as you want - the beneficiary is taxed on it as income when the beneficiary withdraws it but it’s attracting no IHT - why should my estate pay out?

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
Completely different, absolute load of rubbish as usual. I'm going to do it anyway and it's perfectly within the law, I'm sure you'll get over it.

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Best start now if you want to avoid tax - £3k per year.

Ccfcisparks · Nov 22, 2021

Grendel said:
I’ve got most of my money in a discretionary trust - it does exactly as you want - the beneficiary is taxed on it as income when the beneficiary withdraws it but it’s attracting no IHT - why should my estate pay out?

I thought cash paid into a trust attracted tax on death anyway?

Ccfcisparks · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
No he hasn't I have, and if I choose to give it all to my son before I'm dead no one can say anything about how I use my money.

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I mean its not taxable to a certain extent. If you gift it him and its not taxable during lifetime, youll still be charged if you die within 7 years of gifting anyway.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 22, 2021

Ccfcisparks said:
I mean its not taxable to a certain extent. If you gift it him and its not taxable during lifetime, youll still be charged if you die within 7 years of gifting anyway.

If he goes into a home relatively soon after gifting it too, it's deprevation of assets, and they'll come after him anyway.

So best start while he's young, and hope his son doesn't get a taste for fine wines and fast women!

Grendel · Nov 22, 2021

Ccfcisparks said:
I thought cash paid into a trust attracted tax on death anyway?

No it’s not as it has no specified beneficiary therefore has a tax band in its own right - it’s not part of my estate

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Ccfcisparks said:
I mean its not taxable to a certain extent. If you gift it him and its not taxable during lifetime, youll still be charged if you die within 7 years of gifting anyway.

I'm aware. If its the case then so be it but I'll try and avoid it.

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Skybluefaz · Nov 22, 2021

Ccfcisparks said:
I mean its not taxable to a certain extent. If you gift it him and its not taxable during lifetime, youll still be charged if you die within 7 years of gifting anyway.

CGT can be triggered on 'second death' I believe. This is testing my memory but I remember a former footballers son ringing up my old workplace trying to get advice on how he could pay no tax on the multiple properties he owned by utilising trusts.

I was not an advisor but as the chap was unmarried there really wasn't much he could do, and the point was made that the tax would have to be paid eventually. Trusts can help defer it though in the right situations.

PVA · Nov 22, 2021

That fucking clip of Johnson earlier.

How can anyone look at that and think 'yep I'm glad he's the Prime Minister, what a statesman'.

He's a fucking joke. Making us look a joke to the rest of the world.

Grendel · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
I'm aware. If its the case then so be it but I'll try and avoid it.

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There are actually lots of things you can do to protect the money you have earned from falling into the clutches of the taxman. As you get older you can start to look at utilising both tax bands so they are properly used and investments into trusts which are paid at the discretion of the trustees.

TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

Grendel said:
There are actually lots of things you can do to protect the money you have earned from falling into the clutches of the taxman. As you get older you can start to look at utilising both tax bands so they are properly used and investments into trusts which are paid at the discretion of the trustees.

Thanks! It's actually something I was going to research properly further down the line, for obvious reasons, so I can't pretend to be fully clued up. I'm sure I'll figure it out though.

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TomRad85 · Nov 22, 2021

No major arguments today but I feel like this meme belongs in this thread... or perhaps just this forum in general.

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PVA · Nov 22, 2021

It really is the beginning of the end for Johnson. Even Laura K has turned...

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 22, 2021

TomRad85 said:
Completely different, absolute load of rubbish as usual. I'm going to do it anyway and it's perfectly within the law, I'm sure you'll get over it.

Legally it is different but in the logic should it be? Do work for money - get taxed. Do nothing for money - don't get taxed. Surely you can see how that doesn't make sense and is a situation that only exists because those with all the money shaped the laws that made it the case out of self-interest. Then tell the working classes that the pittance they've scraped together in a life of toil can be passed onto their family and they lap it up like it's some huge act of generosity and benevolence.

As you say you're entitled to do what you're suggesting and I don't begrudge you that at all. I'm just not convinced that is what the rules should be but until they're changed you do what you feel is best for your family.

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