Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 19, 2021

shmmeee said:
View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

I mean, I would expect ours to be a bit more expensive, what with the sea in between us and Europe, but that's extortionate.

It's unbelievable that we (and indeed any developed nation) aren't able to create enough renewable energy to service our own needs.

We're surrounded by coast. It's windy and rainy. I'm sure we can invest enough in tidal, wind and hydroelectric to service our needs, topped up with a bit of solar energy.

But of course I know why we haven't done that yet. It's not in the interests of those who have a lot invested in stuff like gas and have a very loud voice in the ear of politicians.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 19, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
We’re getting better at ‘recycling’ spent nuclear waste for starts. Can always fire it into the Sun, in all seriousness

Not exactly cheap firing it in a rocket. What if the rocket carrying it exploded in the atmosphere? Not sure how much nuclear waste I want us to be firing into a massive nuclear fireball and upsetting the chemistry anyway.

wingy · Sep 19, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I mean, I would expect ours to be a bit more expensive, what with the sea in between us and Europe, but that's extortionate.

It's unbelievable that we (and indeed any developed nation) aren't able to create enough renewable energy to service our own needs.

We're surrounded by coast. It's windy and rainy. I'm sure we can invest enough in tidal, wind and hydroelectric to service our needs, topped up with a bit of solar energy.

But of course I know why we haven't done that yet. It's not in the interests of those who have a lot invested in stuff like gas and have a very loud voice in the ear of politicians.

I wonder what structural factors are at play here?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Sep 19, 2021

shmmeee said:
View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

A quick Google would suggest its utter horseshit mate........fake news.....

dutchman · Sep 20, 2021

Last time I checked electricity was twice as expensive in Holland than it is in the UK and natural gas has been banned for home heating and cooking even though it's freely available at a very low price for industrial users. It especially hurts low income families who can't afford a modern heating system in a heavily insulated home.

torchomatic · Sep 20, 2021

shmmeee · Sep 20, 2021

torchomatic said:
View attachment 21880

People are claiming this is fake news further up the thread, I’m not sure that’s right. A quick google will get you old stats and with tax included, but the current wholesale price differential is about what’s in that graphic:

torchomatic · Sep 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
People are claiming this is fake news further up the thread, I’m not sure that’s right. A quick google will get you old stats and with tax included, but the current wholesale price differential is about what’s in that graphic:

Brexiters will tell you its fake news as they don't want to admit they have helped fuck the country up. They'll also tell you that we have 50K more nurses and 40 new hospitals.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Sep 20, 2021

torchomatic said:
Brexiters will tell you its fake news as they don't want to admit they have helped fuck the country up. They'll also tell you that we have 50K more nurses and 40 new hospitals.

NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

shmmeee · Sep 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

Id imagine they’ve taken the max values, our range is huge compared to the rest so max vs average would make a big difference.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Sep 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
Id imagine they’ve taken the max values, our range is huge compared to the rest so max vs average would make a big difference.

lies, damned lies & statistics innit...

torchomatic · Sep 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
**probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

**people who don't want to be poor, insular and have food on the shelves of supermarkets.

COV · Sep 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

So basically its way more expensive here?

Grendel · Sep 20, 2021

COV said:
So basically its way more expensive here?

No not to the consumer I cannot see any evidence it is - Denmark from what I see is the most expensive European country though in February this changed

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Spot rates generally are irrelevant as most energy suppliers purchase in bulk. You can get fixed rates as a consumer at no real increases to last year if you shop around - businesses can get 5 or 6 year fixed deals especially on electricity very easily.

Rates are clearly rising for wholesale purchases

What’s Behind Europe’s Skyrocketing Energy Prices

Europe’s power costs have been pushed through the roof by a supply crunch in natural gas, the risk of military conflict in Ukraine and bottlenecks for renewable energy. Compounding the problem, France’s aging nuclear reactors -- the backbone of the region’s power system -- are becoming more...

www.bloomberg.com

Spin can be put on anything - household electricity comparisons are not it seems available in 2021 but this is 2020 - so you can I am sure try but there is no Brexit issue here - be disappointed

Electricity price by country 2024| Statista

The cheapest electricity prices in the world could be found in Iran in 2023, whereas the cost of electricity per kwh was highest in Europe.

www.statista.com

shmmeee · Sep 20, 2021

Grendel said:
No not to the consumer I cannot see any evidence it is - Denmark from what I see is the most expensive European country though in February this changed

OVO Greener Energy | OVO

You’ll get 100% PPA backed renewable electricity + £20 to support new renewable generators. Together, we’re powering a more sustainable future for the country.

www.ovoenergy.com

Spot rates generally are irrelevant as most energy suppliers purchase in bulk. You can get fixed rates as a consumer at no real increases to last year if you shop around - businesses can get 5 or 6 year fixed deals especially on electricity very easily.

Rates are clearly rising for wholesale purchases

What’s Behind Europe’s Skyrocketing Energy Prices

Europe’s power costs have been pushed through the roof by a supply crunch in natural gas, the risk of military conflict in Ukraine and bottlenecks for renewable energy. Compounding the problem, France’s aging nuclear reactors -- the backbone of the region’s power system -- are becoming more...

www.bloomberg.com

Spin can be put on anything - household electricity comparisons are not it seems available in 2021 but this is 2020 - so you can I am sure try but there is no Brexit issue here - be disappointed

Electricity price by country 2024| Statista

The cheapest electricity prices in the world could be found in Iran in 2023, whereas the cost of electricity per kwh was highest in Europe.

www.statista.com

You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

torchomatic · Sep 20, 2021

Grendel said:
Spin can be put on anything -

And you do it so well.

Grendel · Sep 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

Yes its entirely fake news as the energy suppliers you refer to are tiny and have not purchased bulk wholesale energy - also this I assume will be more related to wholesale gas supply and not electricity. Most small energy franchises should not have been allowed licenses to operate but it has zero to do with anything other than that

COV · Sep 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
You should tell the news channels and energy orgs on them that 90% of suppliers potentially going bust is fake news then.

He reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information guy who proclaimed the US were about to be destroyed, as the tanks literally rolled in behind him

Sick Boy · Sep 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
View attachment 21867
Fucking hell, is this accurate?

I'd argue it's likely being a little selective in leaving off the southern countries - prices are increasing by 40% here.

Grendel · Sep 20, 2021

COV said:
He reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information guy who proclaimed the US were about to be destroyed, as the tanks literally rolled in behind him

Please show me a link that shows consumers are paying more here than anywhere else in Europe - cheers look forward to it

fernandopartridge · Sep 20, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
NO. It is plainly horseshit.

The first graphic is utter bollocks......probably just being pushed by the bitterest of remainers who can't bear to let 2016 go....

However, I have no problem with Shmmeees later graphic that appears to be far more credible.....

Big fucking difference between £400 and 170 euro tho innit......FAKE NEWS.

I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.

Grendel · Sep 20, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.

But I don't think they are

This graph is 2020 and prices have risen since then and the UK average this year is 17.8 pence per KW

Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics on electricity prices for households and non-households analyse their evolution and the differences between countries.

ec.europa.eu

torchomatic · Sep 20, 2021

FACTBOX: UK electricity prices now most expensive in Europe

UK day ahead power prices tripled to record levels Sept. 13 as tight generation margins combined with soaring power import, natural gas and carbon prices. The UK s accelerated coal phase out along wit

www.spglobal.com

fernandopartridge · Sep 20, 2021

Grendel said:
But I don't think they are

This graph is 2020 and prices have risen since then and the UK average this year is 17.8 pence per KW

Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained

EU statistics on electricity prices for households and non-households analyse their evolution and the differences between countries.

ec.europa.eu

You're showing the domestic prices from 2020. When the recent increase in wholesale prices filter down into UK household bills we'll compare.

Grendel · Sep 20, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
You're showing the domestic prices from 2020. When the recent increase in wholesale prices filter down into UK household bills we'll compare.

But don't most energy companies actually buy wholesale energy and also sell it at some point? I know one company I work with who has secured a 5 year fixed rate at the same level they had before for electric which I do not see as achievable if everyone was buying these rates

fernandopartridge · Sep 20, 2021

Grendel said:
But don't most energy companies actually buy wholesale energy and also sell it at some point? I know one company I work with who has secured a 5 year fixed rate at the same level they had before for electric which I do not see as achievable if everyone was buying these rates

It's a fair point, it might be a capacity thing though. Perhaps some of the big suppliers have fixed X amount of their consumption but there are pressures on anything above that

Grendel · Sep 20, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
It's a fair point, it might be a capacity thing though. Perhaps some of the big suppliers have fixed X amount of their consumption but there are pressures on anything above that

Incredibly there are over 60 energy suppliers in the UK which is absurd. Most will not have resources to hedge the energy price and are essentially speculators that will now go down - most likely due to Gas hikes as much as electricity

Its absurd many of these have a licence

fernandopartridge · Sep 20, 2021

Grendel said:
Incredibly there are over 60 energy suppliers in the UK which is absurd. Most will not have resources to hedge the energy price and are essentially speculators that will now go down - most likely due to Gas hikes as much as electricity

Its absurd many of these have a licence

The absurdity comes from pretending that a public monopoly could be turned into an open and competitive market

skybluetony176 · Sep 20, 2021

When a crank takes lessons from a crank.
I love the way Boris name drops Jezza in an attempt to give Piers Corbyn some credibility.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Sep 20, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
I understand the general point about it credibility and remain campaign misrepresentation, but, that graphic in shhmmmeee's post still seems to show that the UK is now paying is 100% more for wholesale gas than the average across Europe. That is a fucking disgrace and the government must be held to account for it.

I'm not denying it's a shitshow......was just disputing the statistical distortion...

fernandopartridge said:
The absurdity comes from pretending that a public monopoly could be turned into an open and competitive market

Exactly....no natural monopolies should be left to market forces with suppliers basically hedging bets on a futures/ commodities market.......we should (but never will) renationalise the water, energy, railways, broadband etc..

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 20, 2021

Grendel said:
Incredibly there are over 60 energy suppliers in the UK which is absurd. Most will not have resources to hedge the energy price and are essentially speculators that will now go down - most likely due to Gas hikes as much as electricity

Its absurd many of these have a licence

While I agree with your point, you do know why there are that many don't you?

Because of the utter obsession of privatising everything under the banner that free market competition will make service better and prices lower. (In fact the real reason is that their business mates can't make any money out of something run as a non-profit utility)

shmmeee · Sep 20, 2021

Amazing article from 2013 where Johnson praises "learned astrophysicist, Piers Corbyn", who "has a very good record of forecasting the weather"

Boris Johnson says snow casts doubt on climate change science | Leo Hickman

Leo Hickman: The mayor of London uses his Telegraph column to signal to the Conservative party's right-wing that he is their man

amp.theguardian.com

skybluetony176 · Sep 21, 2021

Windrush. The scandal that keeps giving.
Seriously, how difficult would it have been to put this to bed for good if not months ago maybe years ago. Just pay them the compensation, that simple.

torchomatic · Sep 21, 2021

National food shortages
Covid disaster

torchomatic · Sep 21, 2021

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

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