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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (10 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,206
Grendel said:
The council just would get what Central funding is given - it’s not the private sector
Click to expand...
I know that. Where have I said differently?

You said you couldn't understand how LA control would be better. So I basically gave two ways in which whatever funding is provided can be used more efficiently than under the academy system, where public funds are given to private enterprises.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,207
fernandopartridge said:
Polish government interest payments are a higher proportion of its annual national income than the UK's are.
Click to expand...
Which is what you’d expect from a middle-income country…

What’s got the bond markets skittish about France and the UKs debt to GDP is the proportions of that debt that’s going on welfare. Poland are driving their rearmament program.

So it’s like a bank looking at two individuals who are (for arguments sake) spending the same amount of money but on different areas. For example, if person ‘x’ spends money 100k on a car (depreciating value) that and person ‘y’ spends 100k on a 2nd house (appreciating value) or rental income. This is a v high level explanation and not to be taken literally.

Take note of the following:

CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, their budget deficit is forecast to be 6.9% (revised up from 5.5). Ours is around 5%. The difference appears to be driven by Polands defence spending which is 4.8% of gdp (ours is about half that)

Debt to gdp as you say is 55% increasing to 58% (far less debt than us and the older developed EU countries like France)

Not sure where in the thread the comparisons with the uk started but it’s not really an appropriate one, it’s half the size and is at a difference stage of development. France and Germany are the most obvious comparisons in terms of population, size of economy, stage of development etc. both struggling
Click to expand...
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,208
SBAndy said:
I get the logic - I think the issue is profiteering. There’s a reason quite a lot of private equity has gone into car home provision over the last 5+ years. I mean, what other choices do people have at the end of the day? Let your elderly relatives remain at home sitting in their own piss until they inevitably injure themselves or blow the house up because they forgot they left the hob on?
Click to expand...
Benny Franks said "In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

I guess this needs to be modernised to account for the almost inevitable end we all face.
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,209
chiefdave said:
Not sure this is true. We don't necessarily need more money, we need the distribution of what we have changed. The last 15 years have seen money flow to the top at an unprecedented rate. Not sure you need to do much more than reverse that.

Try and move back towards hard work being rewarded rather than hard work meaning you're struggling to survive. For the younger generation its horrifically bad. Mates daughter has a full time job and two part time jobs and still has nowhere near the level of income you'd need to move out and have even the most basic standard of living.
Click to expand...
Is your mates daughter renting?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,210
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Which is what you’d expect from a middle-income country…

What’s got the bond markets skittish about France and the UKs debt to GDP is the proportions of that debt that’s going on welfare. Poland are driving their rearmament program.

So it’s like a bank looking at two individuals who are (for arguments sake) spending the same amount of money but on different areas. For example, if person ‘x’ spends money 100k on a car (depreciating value) that and person ‘y’ spends 100k on a 2nd house (appreciating value) or rental income. This is a v high level explanation and not to be taken literally.

Take note of the following:
Click to expand...
More made up nonsense. Poland spends twice as much as a % of its GDP on welfare than the UK does. As if markets really give a fuck what government spends its money on anyway, or are even really in control

Where are the goalposts going next?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,211
fernandopartridge said:
More made up nonsense. Poland spends twice as much as a % of its GDP on welfare than the UK does. As if markets really give a fuck what government spends its money on anyway, or are even really in control

Where are the goalposts going next?
Click to expand...
If your last sentence was true, how did the bond markets bring down Liz Truss?

You’ve also not accounted for a) Poland’s significant increases in welfare spending in recent years (as opposed to historical levels) b) Poland’s debt to GDP ratio and c) Poland’s growth is c. 3% pa.

When the UK last significantly increased welfare spending under Blair, growth was stronger and GDP around 36-37%.

It’s when you get to around 100% debt to GDP that markets get jittery.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,212
An extended debate on Poland’s welfare spending-to-GDP ratio is exactly what this thread should be about, keep it up.
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,213
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
And that's what we've been arguing for god-knows how long regarding needing higher taxes and really looking at reversing the flow of money upwards. We have to take some pain and upheaval now or we just have to have even more later. Yet all we get told is that we're living in cloud cuckoo land and it's too hard.

Nice to see you're slowly coming round to that way of thinking.
Click to expand...
I've always said and you can review my history on this thread, that I'm more than happy to pay higher taxes as long as it's getting to front line workers. I disagree with all eg NHS staff including administrators, of which we have too many, all getting the same share of the pie.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,214
rob9872 said:
I've always said and you can review my history on this thread, that I'm more than happy to pay higher taxes as long as it's getting to front line workers. I disagree with all eg NHS staff including administrators, of which we have too many, all getting the same share of the pie.
Click to expand...
Grendel went a bit quiet, but this bit on the problem with MATs is worth reading. Much more money is being diverted from the frontline service in these privately run setups.

Education Uncovered | News| Revealed: Huge disparities in per-pupil spending on top management in large MATs, compared to LAs

England’s largest multi-academy trusts are forking out up to 12 times more per pupil on their chief executives’ salaries compared to their counterparts in the local authority sector, exclusive new analysis by Education Uncovered reveals today.
educationuncovered.co.uk
 
Reactions: duffer and rob9872

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 28, 2025
  • #58,215
Brighton Sky Blue said:
As it applies to schools, you would need to reverse academisation and put the schools back under local authority control. Doing that alone would put big amounts of money back into the public service without costing any extra; you could divert it into recruiting more classroom support, facility refurbishments and so on.

It looks like a similar story for care homes but I don't know that sector particularly well.
Click to expand...
From my experience care homes suffer from two issues directly to related to them not being publicly run, on top of the well documented issues with poor pay and unfilled roles.

The first is that astronomical fees are paid to enable an individual or company at the top to take out huge amounts of money.

The second is that as they view it purely in terms of how much money can be made there is a lot of interest in running care homes at the lower end of the needs scale, essentially old people who just want to live in a community and have a basic level of care assistance, but much less interest in running facilities for people with more advanced conditions and complex care needs. Essentially they want they easy money.

There's another issue, which you could in part put down to privatisation, and that's duplication of work. The amount of meetings, and amount of paperwork, I have that are just going over the same thing. That's because you have meetings with the care home itself, the NHS, the council all going over the same thing. The meetings with the NHS are largely because they have no direct control over the medical care being given, meetings with the council because they are paying (some) of the bill, meetings with the care home so they can try and upsell you extras.

I queried why there are so many meetings and was told by the council that it was common for care companies to keep billing them when people had either died or moved elsewhere.
 
Reactions: duffer, torchomatic, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and 1 other person

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,216
The party of change

 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,217
fernandopartridge said:
The party of change

Click to expand...

2 questions:

1. does she have to have a licence because she’s part of government? Or is it because of the geographical area it’s in?
2. who the fuck is paying £3.2k a month rent for that (assuming the photo is the property)?
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,218
SBAndy said:
2 questions:

1. does she have to have a licence because she’s part of government? Or is it because of the geographical area it’s in?
2. who the fuck is paying £3.2k a month rent for that (assuming the photo is the property)?
Click to expand...
“Corruption is not bad, it’s only bad I’m not involved”
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,219
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Actually, it does because it’s rewriting our history to something that it’s not. How ridiculous would it be if we redid Roots and presented the horrors of the transatlantic slave trade as being a mixture of white, black, brown or Asian victims.
Click to expand...
While in much smaller numbers, there were white victims of slavery and also those from Asian countries via the Spanish.
Non white people have also been living in the UK for over 2,000 years, BTW.
 
Last edited: Oct 30, 2025

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,220
Mucca Mad Boys said:
“Corruption is not bad, it’s only bad I’m not involved”
Click to expand...

Estate Agent didn't tell her that the house needs a license specific to the area if it's going to be rented out. Not sold on the idea that this is 'corruption'.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,221
Captain Dart said:
This whole thing is about social programming, particularly of young people.
Like the BBC featuring black soldiers at the battle of Hastings etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Wow, just wow.
See above - black people have lived in England for over 2,000 years ffs.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,222
mmttww said:
Estate Agent didn't tell her that the house needs a license specific to the area if it's going to be rented out. Not sold on the idea that this is 'corruption'.
Click to expand...
The quote is from a meme…

It’s quite funny, when the Tories get caught doing something dodgy, it’s more evidence of ‘sleaze’ and ‘one rule for them, one rule for us’. When multiple Labour MPs are guilty of renting houses to one another it’s not ‘sleaze’ but bad advice given or getting caught out by ‘complicated’ regulations.

Sick Boy said:
While in much smaller numbers, there were white victims of slavery and also those from Asian countries via the Spanish.
Non white people have also been living in the UK for over 2,000 years, BTW.
Click to expand...
Roots was specifically depicting the African slave trade and you know that.

As a % of the population, pretty much less than 1% of the UK’s population was foreign born up until the Windrush. However, the main point is Hollywood deliberately misrepresenting the ethnicity of historical figures whom we know their likeliness. If we told Mandela’s story as a white person, it would be outrageous.

As I say, find interesting stories about ethnic minorities and tell them authentically. ‘Blackwashing’ history doesn’t achieve anything.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,223
mmttww said:
Estate Agent didn't tell her that the house needs a license specific to the area if it's going to be rented out. Not sold on the idea that this is 'corruption'.
Click to expand...
I'm sure she'd be very supportive of somebody else who tried to outsource their liability for a decision to a third party
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,224
I was shocked watching a rerun of porridge last night. Only one black guy and not a single foreigner in a place that we've read the statistics on higher up and should have much more representation.

I'll shortly be penning a letter to the BBC, but I'm currently too angry
 
Reactions: fatso

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,225
fernandopartridge said:
I'm sure she'd be very supportive of somebody else who tried to outsource their liability for a decision to a third party
Click to expand...
Labour in opposition never called on anyone to resign if there were any discrepancies in their personal affairs…
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,226
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Labour in opposition never called on anyone to resign if there were any discrepancies in their personal affairs…
Click to expand...
Rachel Thieves is an open goal of a moniker.
 
Reactions: duffer and Mucca Mad Boys

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,227
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s quite funny, when the Tories get caught doing something dodgy, it’s more evidence of ‘sleaze’ and ‘one rule for them, one rule for us’. When multiple Labour MPs are guilty of renting houses to one another it’s not ‘sleaze’ but bad advice given or getting caught out by ‘complicated’ regulations.
Click to expand...

What’s funny is that you treat a couple of questions as rabid defence. Chill.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,228
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s quite funny, when the Tories get caught doing something dodgy, it’s more evidence of ‘sleaze’ and ‘one rule for them, one rule for us’. When multiple Labour MPs are guilty of renting houses to one another it’s not ‘sleaze’ but bad advice given or getting caught out by ‘complicated’ regulations.
Click to expand...

I don't like the current government and thought the last lot were a bag of sh*te. I'd just rather the lot of them got on with sh*t that matters instead of playing gotcha with bits like this. I know expecting any different is naive and thick but there it is!

Taking this thing in isolation, the amount of chat and noise it'll generate will be ridiculous and might mean she leaves her post. I'm not arguing that wouldn't be consistent with other bits in the recent past whatever side of the aisle. Just bores me to tears.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,229
fernandopartridge said:
I'm sure she'd be very supportive of somebody else who tried to outsource their liability for a decision to a third party
Click to expand...

Not gonna disagree. Like I've said in reply to MMB, it's just so f*cking dull and reductive and pointless.
 

Sbarcher

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,230
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Rachel Thieves is an open goal of a moniker.
Click to expand...
She’ll be fine.
No way Starmer will let her go.
She is his scapegoat when things get to breaking point.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,231
The majority of politicians seem to think rules and laws don't apply to them, regardless of party.
 
Reactions: TomRad85, Mucca Mad Boys and Brighton Sky Blue

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,232
SBAndy said:
What’s funny is that you treat a couple of questions as rabid defence. Chill.
Click to expand...
“Rabid defence” lol.
mmttww said:
I don't like the current government and thought the last lot were a bag of sh*te. I'd just rather the lot of them got on with sh*t that matters instead of playing gotcha with bits like this. I know expecting any different is naive and thick but there it is!

Taking this thing in isolation, the amount of chat and noise it'll generate will be ridiculous and might mean she leaves her post. I'm not arguing that wouldn't be consistent with other bits in the recent past whatever side of the aisle. Just bores me to tears.
Click to expand...

People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. As it turns out, there’s a lot of Labour MPs and government ministers living in such houses.

Politically, Starmer presented himself as a ‘tough, zero tolerance leader’ who said he’d sack anyone who is not beyond reproach which increases the heat on him when ministers are caught engaging in dodgy dealings.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,233
Sick Boy said:
The majority of politicians seem to think rules and laws don't apply to them, regardless of party.
Click to expand...
The best and the brightest don't tend to succeed in politics, often actually the opposite.
 
Reactions: duffer and CCFCSteve

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,234
mmttww said:
Estate Agent didn't tell her that the house needs a license specific to the area if it's going to be rented out. Not sold on the idea that this is 'corruption'.
Click to expand...
To also echo Andy's point on renting a house for £3.2K a month, you would think an estate agent getting a cut of that would be good enough to know their job.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,235
RegTheDonk said:
you would think an estate agent getting a cut of that would be good enough to know their job.
Click to expand...

based on my experience of letting agents, I wouldn't expect them to know their arse from their elbow.
 
Reactions: wingy, duffer and CCFCSteve

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,236
This strikes me more as an estate agent fuck up than corruption. tbh if the only corruption we had to worry about was not paying £3K or whatever it is for a license rather than hundreds of millions in wasted contracts handed to mates we'd be in a much better positon.

But there's a problem for Starmer in that he has taken a hard line on the likes on Raynor, no doubt in large part because it was a convenient way to get rid of her, so will need to show some consistency.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, duffer, Ccfc_Addy and 2 others

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,237
chiefdave said:
This strikes me more as an estate agent fuck up than corruption. tbh if the only corruption we had to worry about was not paying £3K or whatever it is for a license rather than hundreds of millions in wasted contracts handed to mates we'd be in a much better positon.

But there's a problem for Starmer in that he has taken a hard line on the likes on Raynor, no doubt in large part because it was a convenient way to get rid of her, so will need to show some consistency.
Click to expand...
Could Starmer do anything at this point to turn the tide of public opinion? I don't think he can, but he can certainly make it even worse.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,238
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Could Starmer do anything at this point to turn the tide of public opinion? I don't think he can, but he can certainly make it even worse.
Click to expand...
I think he could probably turn enough people round but he seems to have no desire to do anything other than emulate the tories and reform.

He's not going to gain many votes from Reform and in the process he's losing huge chunks of the people that voted Labour last time. Think we're past the ones who just voted because they wanted the current lot out and into long term Labour voters who just don't see the current direction of the party aligned with traditional Labour values.
 
Reactions: duffer, SBAndy, mmttww and 1 other person

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,239
chiefdave said:
This strikes me more as an estate agent fuck up than corruption. tbh if the only corruption we had to worry about was not paying £3K or whatever it is for a license rather than hundreds of millions in wasted contracts handed to mates we'd be in a much better positon.

But there's a problem for Starmer in that he has taken a hard line on the likes on Raynor, no doubt in large part because it was a convenient way to get rid of her, so will need to show some consistency.
Click to expand...
He had to get rid of Rayner because they’d spent all their time in opposition demanding resignations. How Rayner could be presented as a victim is beyond me.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 30, 2025
  • #58,240
Didn’t Rayner walk ? Different level of offences either way. Id never even heard of a selective licence until today, £1k is hardly a sacking offence
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys
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