Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

PVA · Jul 2, 2021

I think the shine is (slowly) coming off Johnson/the Tories.

Remember after Hartlepool everyone crowing about what a dramatic victory it was (and it was, to be fair), and it was the end of Labour and Tories are unbeatable.

Those people are very quiet now.

First we had Chesham & Amersham, now Batley & Spen. Both expected to be easy Tory victories. Two big anti-Tory wins.

Tories didn't even gain votes in Batley, they lost vote share (to a racist homophobe, no less).

I don't know if this Hancock business is the straw that broke the camel's back but I think people are starting to have enough of Tory bullshit. Early days obviously, but another by election loss for the Tories down south any time soon would really make me think people starting to get fed up with them.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2021

Didn't see that coming. No idea why it happened (low turnout, Galloway, Hancock, keeping some lockdown restrictions?) but after expecting a Tory win it does reaffirm a litle bit of faith in me that maybe people might just be seeing past the incompetence and corruption at the heart of govt.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2021

Philosorapter said:
It is called growing a backbone and not implementing Tory cuts to local services which should have happened.

Amazing how money can now be found to protect businesses that didn't bother to get the correct insurance to get through a pandemic.

A hat stand with a red rosette would have been more effective in defending cuts to local services than a lot of Labour councillors

City Centre first though eh?

They can't just refuse to cut anything because they still won't be getting the money. When the budget goes through putting through those cuts you do realise it's only the MP's that vote? The Tories have a huge majority so it's never going to get voted no matter how much Labour MP's or LA's complain. For it to have even a small chance of being effective it'd have to include numerous Tory run LA's campaigning against the cuts and most aren't going to rock the boat. Far too many have personal political ambitions to do that.

Allied to the fact that more things that were previously under central government budget have been pushed into LA spending they're getting far less to spend and more things they need to spend it on. The LA has the right to choose what of those things they provide to cut, but they have to cut something. If the don't the LA is just going to be in a financial black hole and while you might argue "well, are they really going to just let somewhere go bankrupt?" I say yes, esp if it's a Labour council cos it'd just give them a win in being able to say "we told you Labour we're economically inept".

I agree with you about more money magically being found for other things but as I said it's parliament who get to make those decisions and that's got a strong Tory stranglehold. Until people make that connection that the cuts are central government rather than LA focused the practice of cutting LA funding won't change.

Northants Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2021

The Tories were 1/6 to win yesterday so their claims of being `not bothered' sound like a dumped 14 year old teenager.

However, if Labour want to challenge on a national scale they should follow this advice in todays Independent Op-ed piece-

Labour remains in a mess – the Batley and Spen result doesn’t change that

(the left of the party) obediently attack every bit of made-up “woke” bait Johnson waves at them

Click to expand...

David O'Day · Jul 2, 2021

Northants Sky Blue said:
The Tories were 1/6 to win yesterday so their claims of being `not bothered' sound like a dumped 14 year old teenager.

However, if Labour want to challenge on a national scale they should follow this advice in todays Independent Op-ed piece-

Labour remains in a mess – the Batley and Spen result doesn’t change that

It's an awful result for the Tories given there was no credible challenge to their base.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2021

I know it's his job to big the party up but Starmer saying 'Labour are back' isn't going to fool anyone. This wasn't a Labour win - it was a Tory loss and even then it was incredibly close. I think the deciding factor may well have been it being Jo Cox's sister running.

Grendel · Jul 2, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I know it's his job to big the party up but Starmer saying 'Labour are back' isn't going to fool anyone. This wasn't a Labour win - it was a Tory loss and even then it was incredibly close. I think the deciding factor may well have been it being Jo Cox's sister running.

if it’s a Tory loss given it’s a Labour seat and I think has been since 1997 then Labour is in an even more dire position than most think

COV · Jul 2, 2021

So can someone summarise what happened, was it the total wipeout for labour some were predicting

Grendel · Jul 2, 2021

COV said:
So can someone summarise what happened, was it the total wipeout for labour some were predicting

who was predicting that? You I assume have seen the result

COV · Jul 2, 2021

Grendel said:
who was predicting that? You I assume have seen the result

I have not seen anything

And I would not be crowing about it whichever way it went as I am not on either side. Just interested to see who got it right & wrong on here that’s all

COV · Jul 2, 2021

COV said:
I have not seen anything

And I would not be crowing about it whichever way it went as I am not on either side. Just interested to see who got it right & wrong on here that’s all

Ok having read the above posts I can work out what happened.

People getting tired of Conservatives or a show of faith in labour? Both?

Doesn’t look like a labour win with that kind of margin, looks like a conservative loss

PVA · Jul 2, 2021

It was a Tory loss.

They were 1/5 to win, or something like that.

Trying to claim they're not disappointed by it is the political equivalent of 'didn't fancy her anyway'.

COV · Jul 2, 2021

PVA said:
It was a Tory loss.

They were 1/5 to win, or something like that.

Trying to claim they're not disappointed by it is the political equivalent of 'didn't fancy her anyway'.

Ok so conservatives left with egg on their faces, however labour celebrating something which would have been a given just a few years ago, highlighting the state they’re actually in

Would it not have been better for Starmer to acknowledge Labour’s struggles and use the narrow margin of victory to commit to changing things? People will see through this, celebrating this seems to be missing the point, would be like Robins dancing with delight at beating Nuneaton Borough with a late own goal in the FA Cup after being under the cosh all match

PVA · Jul 2, 2021

COV said:
Ok so conservatives left with egg on their faces, however labour celebrating something which would have been a given just a few years ago, highlighting the state they’re actually in

Would it not have been better for Starmer to acknowledge Labour’s struggles and use the narrow margin of victory to commit to changing things? People will see through this, celebrating this seems to be missing the point, would be like Robins dancing with delight at beating Nuneaton Borough with a late own goal in the FA Cup after being under the cosh all match

Nuneaton Borough wouldn't be 1/5 to beat us though

COV · Jul 2, 2021

PVA said:
Nuneaton Borough wouldn't be 1/5 to beat us though

They might be now we’ve signed Sheaf if the general reaction to his signing is anything to go by

skybluetony176 · Jul 2, 2021

COV said:
Ok so conservatives left with egg on their faces, however labour celebrating something which would have been a given just a few years ago, highlighting the state they’re actually in

Would it not have been better for Starmer to acknowledge Labour’s struggles and use the narrow margin of victory to commit to changing things? People will see through this, celebrating this seems to be missing the point, would be like Robins dancing with delight at beating Nuneaton Borough with a late own goal in the FA Cup after being under the cosh all match

We live in a post truth world where something staying the same is seen as a mammoth victory. Starmer is just joining in with the current mood of the country.

COV · Jul 2, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
We live in a post truth world where something staying the same is seen as a mammoth victory. Starmer is just joining in with the current mood of the country.

Like us going mad at staying in the same division, I get you

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2021

Grendel said:
if it’s a Tory loss given it’s a Labour seat and I think has been since 1997 then Labour is in an even more dire position than most think

Tories were favourites to win it. Most people are surprised it didn't swing back. And I don't see what Labour have done, other than the choice of candidate, to arrest their recent decline. Which leaves the possibility of the Tories putting people off voting for them. And you got a multiple choice of reasons for that.

skybluetony176 · Jul 2, 2021

COV said:
Like us going mad at staying in the same division, I get you

That was a win.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I know it's his job to big the party up but Starmer saying 'Labour are back' isn't going to fool anyone. This wasn't a Labour win - it was a Tory loss and even then it was incredibly close. I think the deciding factor may well have been it being Jo Cox's sister running.

It’s a start to painting a more positive image. And as Johnson has shown positivity takes you a long way. I seriously doubt anyone in his office genuinely thinks this means all his problems are over. I think I read it was the biggest swing to a governing party in a by election for 39 years.

That said as discussed earlier perhaps his team really are that blind.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2021

Grendel said:
if it’s a Tory loss given it’s a Labour seat and I think has been since 1997 then Labour is in an even more dire position than most think

Right wing vote has been higher than left there every year other than when Blair was in power I believe. It’s a Tory seat in reality and will likely go that way at the next GE.

Ian1779 · Jul 2, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Tories were favourites to win it. Most people are surprised it didn't swing back. And I don't see what Labour have done, other than the choice of candidate, to arrest their recent decline. Which leaves the possibility of the Tories putting people off voting for them. And you got a multiple choice of reasons for that.

In this particular example, I think it’s a combination of the candidate putting a lot of hard yards on the ground, and a bit of the Tory vote not coming out (being it wasn’t a GE)

Northants Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2021

As long as right-wing print media dictates public opinion any Labour leader wanting to genuinely be PM has to hold their nose and pick up the phone to Murdoch et al

If Blair hadnt done this we'd have had nearly 50 years of unbroken Tory rule

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2021

Northants Sky Blue said:
A right leaning print media still dictates public opinion so any Labour leader wanting to be PM has to hold their nose and pick up the phone to Murdoch.

Blair proved this.

Sun readership in 1996 when Blair was leader: 4.5m

Sun readership today: 1.3m

Also people can think for themselves and a majority hold very different opinions to the sun, they’re just not in the 15% most socially liberal that make up the online left.

Northants Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2021

Correct but controlling the narrative isnt necessarily reflected in readership figures. Look at the Hancock story.

Its unpalatable but if we dont want a one-party state they've got to at least try and get some of the papers onside.

i dont want the Labour party effectively staying as just a debating society

David O'Day · Jul 2, 2021

shmmeee said:
Right wing vote has been higher than left there every year other than when Blair was in power I believe. It’s a Tory seat in reality and will likely go that way at the next GE.

Galloway painted himself as running from the "left" - Apart from the tories there was no credible party campaigning as being on the "right"

Also 2017 Labour took over 50% of the vote alone and in 2010 the progressive vote i.e. Labour and Lib Dems out numbered the tories.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2021

David O'Day said:
Galloway painted himself as running from the "left" - Apart from the tories there was no credible party campaigning as being on the "right"

Also 2017 Labour took over 50% of the vote alone and in 2010 the progressive vote i.e. Labour and Lib Dems out numbered the tories.

2017 was a Brexit election and bucked trends all over.

2010 the Lib Dems literally went into coalition with the Tories so whatever bollocks they were spouting about being progressive they were a right wing party (I mean they are anyway they’re liberals after all)

David O'Day · Jul 2, 2021

shmmeee said:
2017 was a Brexit election and bucked trends all over.

2010 the Lib Dems literally went into coalition with the Tories so whatever bollocks they were spouting about being progressive they were a right wing party (I mean they are anyway they’re liberals after all)

And? Half the proper elections (not counting the 2016 by-election) the left/progressive vote has been higher than the combined right wing vote

It's a very diverse and it parts cosmopolitan area. It's very different from the make up of the small town north east seats it seems to get compared to.

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 2, 2021

PVA said:
It was a Tory loss.

They were 1/5 to win, or something like that.

Trying to claim they're not disappointed by it is the political equivalent of 'didn't fancy her anyway'.

1/9

wingy · Jul 2, 2021

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2021

shmmeee said:
I’m a Labour member and the way that lot have been acting (throw in Bastani as well) has been fucking disgraceful. Jones cuddling up to a homophobe just because he didn’t like Starmer was sickening. They can all get in the bin, none of them are Labour. And yes Putin and Hussein are both connected to Galloway. The guy is a racist, homophobic c**t who supports genocidal maniacs and covers for authoritarian regimes and the lefts love affair with him because he might annoy Starmer is frankly disgusting.

They can all get in the bin.

Are you serious? Jones and Galloway have been at each others throats all week.

shmmeee · Jul 2, 2021

clint van damme said:
Are you serious? Jones and Galloway have been at each others throats all week.

That’s cos they’re a pair of grifters. He was happy laughing and joking with him on his interview.

clint van damme · Jul 2, 2021

shmmeee said:
That’s cos they’re a pair of grifters. He was happy laughing and joking with him on his interview.

Jones interviews all sorts of people. Whatever you think of him he's definitely no friend of Galloway.
Not sure I'd put him in the same league as Galloway when it comes to grifting either. Galloway is shameless.

CCFCSteve · Jul 2, 2021

Haven’t got to add much to this discussion apart from the fact that if anyone mentions Galloway this horror image sometimes pops into my head

CCFCSteve · Jul 2, 2021

Ps see Goves got divorce underway before the vid comes out !

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