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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 9:22 AM
  • #51,171
Meanwhile back in the real world. Musk is in the process of being kicked out of both the Republican Party and Tesla for being a weirdo that doesn’t deliver and is harming the product.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 9:24 AM
  • #51,172
Bill Gates the billionaire who is working on giving his riches away before passing away

Give me 10 Bill Gates over Elon Musk
 
Reactions: duffer, chiefdave, mmttww and 1 other person

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 9:24 AM
  • #51,173
Sky Blue Pete said:
Bill Gates the billionaire who is working on giving his riches away before passing away

Give me 10 Bill Gates over Elon Musk
Click to expand...

He’s about the only billionaire to do old style philanthropy with his money. Probably because he’s about the only one from old money TBF.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Wednesday at 10:00 AM
  • #51,174
shmmeee said:
He’s about the only billionaire to do old style philanthropy with his money. Probably because he’s about the only one from old money TBF.
Click to expand...
Next you'll be trying to tell us that he wasn't implanting microchips inside people via the Death Injection.
 
Reactions: MalcSB and duffer
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 10:07 AM
  • #51,175
shmmeee said:
Meanwhile back in the real world. Musk is in the process of being kicked out of both the Republican Party and Tesla for being a weirdo that doesn’t deliver and is harming the product.
Click to expand...
Is he? I certainly don’t see him leaving Tesla anytime soon and the Republican Party isn’t going to say no to his cash.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 11:00 AM
  • #51,176
Captain Dart said:
View attachment 43295

Interesting and scary trends.

Ps Birth rate is dropping all over especially in last few years.
Click to expand...
The increase in 30 year olds over the last few years is directly linked to the immigration increases.

A shortage of working aged people in this age group to do lesser paid jobs has acted as a pull to migrants.

There are caveats:

The number of working aged people not working has increased, particularly women from “conservative cultures”. As this demographic increases, we need to be strong enough to talk about the issue.

Training and language courses need to be provided to enable greater access to the work market and sanctions for voluntary non-participation. This is fair.

I think I read that there are 9 million non-working working aged people in the UK.

Rather than import more, why not encourage societal inclusion and participation?
 
Reactions: MalcSB and Captain Dart

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 11:08 AM
  • #51,177
SBT said:
Is he? I certainly don’t see him leaving Tesla anytime soon and the Republican Party isn’t going to say no to his cash.
Click to expand...

Sorry kicked out the party of hyperbole. Quietly moved to the back so they can keep his money is more accurate.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/19/elon-musk-disappears-trump-world-00355313

Tesla board have been getting twitchy for a while, which is probably why he’s announcing this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-20/musk-says-he-s-committed-to-being-tesla-ceo-for-next-five-years

But ultimately if that doesn’t reverse the sales drops they’ve seen he’ll be gone because he’ll be more of a liability than an asset.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 11:46 AM
  • #51,178
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Regarding this EU deal, let's look at one example - pet passports.

It has been difficult to get your dogs in and out of the country following Brexit. We were told that that's what we deserved because it's what we voted for.

Given that now this is going to be reversed and British pet passports are going to be valid again (previously you needed a very expensive animal health certificate instead, which was limited in time), it just proves the point that the deals done at the time were absolutely shit, and we were indeed just punished for daring to vote out. You can't measure the principles of the vote and its success when it is now clear this has been the play.

I understand that there are arguments on both sides about the outcomes of voting to stay verus voting to leave, but I don't see at this point how anyone can argue that a big part of the argument to stay in wasn't down to being frightened of what these punishments would be if we voted to leave. It's more or less proved itself in the last few days.




As a side note, the whole E-gate stuff is just nonsense, as is the EU vs non/EU queues at airports. It never made the slightest bit of difference. The thing that has caused delays and things like airports and ports is generally down to organisational competence, and staffing, and which flights land at what times. It's largely luck and I've gotten through a border quicker than my partner who is from the EU on a significant amount of occasions.

It isn't really a bargaining tool, and it makes me laugh that many publications and news outlets are behaving as if we have been significantly impacted by this since the vote. As someone who travels internationally about once a week, it's just nonsense to suggest we've hit by this in any serious way.

To be honest, whilst I suspect this forum will have other ideas, I predict the actions of the last few days will only raise the percentage of the population who believe leaving the EU was a good idea.
Click to expand...
The reality will be lost on a number of the synaptically challenged on here:

We were told that queues at passport control, Dover and so on would be huge. Not so. Yes, there are slight delays at passport control as they are stamped (and in some cases checks are done to make sure 90 day limits are not exceeded). Did anyone in their right mind think that Spain would want to delay 2.2 million tourists per year by, say, an hour each from spending in bars and restaurants? 2.2 million hours of potential economic activity lost and the potential of losing repeat business by deterring future visits? No. It would actually be in the UK interests to have tourist remain in the UK and spend here.

E-Gate was happening anyway. Fact.


What is the EES?

The Entry/Exit System is an automated IT system for registering non-EU nationals travelling for a short stay, each time they cross the external borders of any of the European countries using the system.
travel-europe.europa.eu

March 2025. lol.

The costs / benefits of Brexit are difficult to measure realistically and many of the figures, like pre-referendum are utter nonsense. On both sides.
 
Last edited: Wednesday at 11:53 AM
Reactions: Captain Dart

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Wednesday at 11:54 AM
  • #51,179
The Philosopher said:
The reality will be lost on a number of the synaptically challenged on here:

We were told that queues at passport control, Dover and so on would be huge. Not so. Yes, there are slight delays at passport control as they are stamped (and in some cases checks are done to make sure 90 day limits are not exceeded). Did anyone in their right mind think that Spain would want to delay 2.2 million tourists per year by, say, an hour each from spending in bars and restaurants? 2.2 million hours of potential economic activity lost and the potential of losing repeat business by deterring future visits? No. It would actually be in the UK interests to have tourist remain in the UK and spend here.

E-Gate was happening anyway. Fact.

The costs / benefits of Brexit are difficult to measure realistically and many of the figures, like pre-referendum are utter nonsense. On both sides.
Click to expand...
The eGates have already been happening for ages now, it’s nothing new.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 12:20 PM
  • #51,180
Brexit is an unknowable ghost, a whisper in the wind, to quantify it is to debase it, judge it only for its ephemeral beauty.
 
Reactions: MalcSB, Captain Dart and duffer
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 12:26 PM
  • #51,181
Reform getting stuff done!!


"Reform UK fulfils pledge to scrap Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in its council areas"

Wow, impressive!


"All 10 council areas controlled by rightwing party tell the Guardian they have no low-traffic neighbourhoods"

Oh.
 
Reactions: MalcSB, Captain Dart, duffer and 2 others

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 12:38 PM
  • #51,182
PVA said:
Reform getting stuff done!!


"Reform UK fulfils pledge to scrap Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in its council areas"

Wow, impressive!


"All 10 council areas controlled by rightwing party tell the Guardian they have no low-traffic neighbourhoods"

Oh.
Click to expand...
That’s quick work (satire)
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 1:41 PM
  • #51,183
PVA said:
Reform getting stuff done!!


"Reform UK fulfils pledge to scrap Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in its council areas"

Wow, impressive!


"All 10 council areas controlled by rightwing party tell the Guardian they have no low-traffic neighbourhoods"

Oh.
Click to expand...

Well I guess they are learning off Enoch JNR
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 2:03 PM
  • #51,184
Won't see Malc for the rest of the day, will be out celebrating

Starmer says he wants more pensioners to be eligible for winter fuel payment in policy U-turn​

Click to expand...
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 2:26 PM
  • #51,185
chiefdave said:
Won't see Malc for the rest of the day, will be out celebrating
Click to expand...

Its pretty ridiculous. Lets introduce a policy essential to fill a mysterious black hole which is always going to be unpopular. Shock at amount of negativity so backtrack hastily.
 
Reactions: Bugsy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 2:32 PM
  • #51,186
While we are talking about disproportionate jail sentences it will be interesting where this ends up

Two men are found GUILTY of chopping down beloved Sycamore Gap tree

Daniel Graham, 39, and Adam Carruthers, 32, face up to ten years in prison for felling the Sycamore Gap tree and causing damage to Hadrian's Wall in the process.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 3:44 PM
  • #51,187
Grendel said:
Its pretty ridiculous. Lets introduce a policy essential to fill a mysterious black hole which is always going to be unpopular. Shock at amount of negativity so backtrack hastily.
Click to expand...
Changing your mind and admitting a mistake is bad!!!!!!?????? Mmmmm
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 3:51 PM
  • #51,188
18 month suspended sentence
Grendel said:
While we are talking about disproportionate jail sentences it will be interesting where this ends up

Two men are found GUILTY of chopping down beloved Sycamore Gap tree

Daniel Graham, 39, and Adam Carruthers, 32, face up to ten years in prison for felling the Sycamore Gap tree and causing damage to Hadrian's Wall in the process.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 3:59 PM
  • #51,189
Sky Blue Pete said:
Changing your mind and admitting a mistake is bad!!!!!!?????? Mmmmm
Click to expand...

Its nothing to do with that and it says that Rachel Reeves is in reality a liar

This is just trying to put the fire out when the trust is already burned
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 4:14 PM
  • #51,190
Grendel said:
Its nothing to do with that and it says that Rachel Reeves is in reality a liar

This is just trying to put the fire out when the trust is already burned
Click to expand...
Trust was burned before they started if we’re all being honest cause for some reason the tories got 14 years and labour following got tarred with their brush after 4 weeks
I just don’t accept that there was a massive hole in the finances there always is they are trying to be sensible
I think this is a good thing
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 4:15 PM
  • #51,191
Sky Blue Pete said:
Trust was burned before they started if we’re all being honest cause for some reason the tories got 14 years and labour following got tarred with their brush after 4 weeks
I just don’t accept that there was a massive hole in the finances there always is they are trying to be sensible
I think this is a good thing
Click to expand...
Oh well reform it is
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 4:21 PM
  • #51,192
Anyway the deal's, do we think there was logic applied in the order, scale and value in them?
Possibly genius move or desperate actions and flailing around?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 5:13 PM
  • #51,193
PVA said:
Fucking hell Malc, you've really jumped the shark recently.

Was anyone, whether they voted Leave or Remain, asked for their views on the deal that was signed?

Are we ever asked for our views on any bill or legislation?
Click to expand...

We had been given a vote on whether to remain in the EU or not. There was a clear mandate to do what was necessary following that election and the referendum. Of course, in modern democratic UK a clear majority means nothing to certain sections of the electorate who immediately swung in to destruction mode - seems ant-democratic to

The Labour manifesto did not even mention the EU, in the same way that no mention was made about slashing Winter Fuel Payments. The below is copied from their online manifesto.

I will ask now - how can you have a manifesto pledge to deliver a decade of anything for a 5 year term in office? Unless the change envisaged is actually so malignant that the impacts will drag on beyond a change in government. 2029 and beyond should be interesting.

This Labour government was elected on the promise of change – to deliver a decade of national renewal. Our manifesto promised, through mission-led government, to put the country back in the service of working people. 

Our five missions are ambitious but long-term goals, a decade long-project to completely transform government and move away from sticking-plaster politics.

Labour’s five missions for Government are:




Kickstart economic growth – to drive growth, rebuild Britain, support good jobs, unlock investment, and improve living standards across the country.   GOING REALLY WELL

Make Britain a clean energy superpower through delivering clean power by 2030 and accelerating to net zero.  

Take back our streets by halving serious violent crime and raising confidence in the police and criminal justice system to its highest levels.   Confidence in police and criminal justice system must be pretty low at the moment.

Break down barriers to opportunity by reforming our childcare and education systems, to make sure there is no class ceiling on the ambitions of our young people.  should reserve judgement on this until the impact of VAT on private school fees can be clearly seen. Could be that a new, lower class ceiling is imposed which seems to be a problem with a lot of Labour levelling. I.e. its levelling down, not up.
chiefdave said:
Won't see Malc for the rest of the day, will be out celebrating
Click to expand...
Good luck to those that get it.
Now, where’s my Moet?

Can’t overdo it, have an oncology appointment tomorrow.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 5:16 PM
  • #51,194
wingy said:
Anyway the deal's, do we think there was logic applied in the order, scale and value in them?
Possibly genius move or desperate actions and flailing around?
Click to expand...
The latter two.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 5:17 PM
  • #51,195
MalcSB said:
We had been given a vote on whether to remain in the EU or not. There was a clear mandate to do what was necessary following that election and the referendum. Of course, in modern democratic UK a clear majority means nothing to certain sections of the electorate who immediately swung in to destruction mode - seems ant-democratic to

The Labour manifesto did not even mention the EU, in the same way that no mention was made about slashing Winter Fuel Payments. The below is copied from their online manifesto.

I will ask now - how can you have a manifesto pledge to deliver a decade of anything for a 5 year term in office? Unless the change envisaged is actually so malignant that the impacts will drag on beyond a change in government. 2029 and beyond should be interesting.

This Labour government was elected on the promise of change – to deliver a decade of national renewal. Our manifesto promised, through mission-led government, to put the country back in the service of working people. 

Our five missions are ambitious but long-term goals, a decade long-project to completely transform government and move away from sticking-plaster politics.

Labour’s five missions for Government are:




Kickstart economic growth – to drive growth, rebuild Britain, support good jobs, unlock investment, and improve living standards across the country.   GOING REALLY WELL

Make Britain a clean energy superpower through delivering clean power by 2030 and accelerating to net zero.  

Take back our streets by halving serious violent crime and raising confidence in the police and criminal justice system to its highest levels.   Confidence in police and criminal justice system must be pretty low at the moment.

Break down barriers to opportunity by reforming our childcare and education systems, to make sure there is no class ceiling on the ambitions of our young people.  should reserve judgement on this until the impact of VAT on private school fees can be clearly seen. Could be that a new, lower class ceiling is imposed which seems to be a problem with a lot of Labour levelling. I.e. its levelling down, not up.
Good luck to those that get it.
Now, where’s my Moet?

Can’t overdo it, have an oncology appointment tomorrow.
Click to expand...
You do have parallels in the states though, apparently, not that I'm advocating either but.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 5:17 PM
  • #51,196
MalcSB said:
We had been given a vote on whether to remain in the EU or not. There was a clear mandate to do what was necessary following that election and the referendum. Of course, in modern democratic UK a clear majority means nothing to certain sections of the electorate who immediately swung in to destruction mode - seems ant-democratic to
Click to expand...
The referendum result delivered a mandate to leave the EU, which we did. Your decision to vote Leave didn’t give you veto powers over all future trade and diplomatic policy with Europe in perpetuity.
 
Reactions: mmttww, Sky Blue Pete and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 5:19 PM
  • #51,197
Sky Blue Pete said:
Trust was burned before they started if we’re all being honest cause for some reason the tories got 14 years and labour following got tarred with their brush after 4 weeks
I just don’t accept that there was a massive hole in the finances there always is they are trying to be sensible
I think this is a good thing
Click to expand...

Starmers Labour has never has outriders in the media like the fringes do. So there’s never been anything but anger from the left and right since his election and zero counterbalance. They’ve started poorly but the hyperbole from both sides is ludicrous. One would have you believe he’s Enoch Powell mk2 but this time he hates grannies and the disabled and trans people and Gazans, the other thinks he’s a Marxist secret gay tent boy addict with frankly a far more exciting sex life than his appearance suggests who is hell bent on locking up his political enemies (because that’s what they said in America so just copy and paste).
MalcSB said:
We had been given a vote on whether to remain in the EU or not. There was a clear mandate to do what was necessary following that election and the referendum. Of course, in modern democratic UK a clear majority means nothing to certain sections of the electorate who immediately swung in to destruction mode - seems ant-democratic to

The Labour manifesto did not even mention the EU, in the same way that no mention was made about slashing Winter Fuel Payments. The below is copied from their online manifesto.

I will ask now - how can you have a manifesto pledge to deliver a decade of anything for a 5 year term in office? Unless the change envisaged is actually so malignant that the impacts will drag on beyond a change in government. 2029 and beyond should be interesting.

This Labour government was elected on the promise of change – to deliver a decade of national renewal. Our manifesto promised, through mission-led government, to put the country back in the service of working people. 

Our five missions are ambitious but long-term goals, a decade long-project to completely transform government and move away from sticking-plaster politics.

Labour’s five missions for Government are:




Kickstart economic growth – to drive growth, rebuild Britain, support good jobs, unlock investment, and improve living standards across the country.   GOING REALLY WELL

Make Britain a clean energy superpower through delivering clean power by 2030 and accelerating to net zero.  

Take back our streets by halving serious violent crime and raising confidence in the police and criminal justice system to its highest levels.   Confidence in police and criminal justice system must be pretty low at the moment.

Break down barriers to opportunity by reforming our childcare and education systems, to make sure there is no class ceiling on the ambitions of our young people.  should reserve judgement on this until the impact of VAT on private school fees can be clearly seen. Could be that a new, lower class ceiling is imposed which seems to be a problem with a lot of Labour levelling. I.e. its levelling down, not up.
Good luck to those that get it.
Now, where’s my Moet?

Can’t overdo it, have an oncology appointment tomorrow.
Click to expand...

The impact of VAT on private schools can be seen. It’s a drop of about 2-3%, mostly in new intakes. So no feared exodus of poor children no longer able to afford it. Who woulda thunk?

Part of your problem is you spend your time making stuff up then getting angry. Seems easier just to not make stuff up?

On what was in the Labour manifesto:


 
Reactions: PVA and Sky Blue Pete
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 5:32 PM
  • #51,198
MalcSB said:
We had been given a vote on whether to remain in the EU or not. There was a clear mandate to do what was necessary following that election and the referendum.
Click to expand...

Yes and that's exactly what you got.

To now complain that the electorate, and Leavers in particular, aren't being asked for their views on trade deals is hilarious.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 6:01 PM
  • #51,199
MalcSB said:
The Labour manifesto did not even mention the EU
Click to expand...
Except for that time it did

“With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU. But to seize the opportunities ahead, we must make Brexit work. We will reset the relationship and seek to deepen ties with our European friends, neighbours and allies. That does not mean reopening the divisions of the past. There will be no return to the single market, the customs union, or freedom of movement.

Instead, Labour will work to improve the UK’s trade and investment relationship with the EU, by tearing down unnecessary barriers to trade. We will seek to negotiate a veterinary agreement to prevent unnecessary border checks and help tackle the cost of food; will help our touring artists; and secure a mutual recognition agreement for professional qualifications to help open up markets for UK service exporters.

Labour will seek an ambitious new UK-EU security pact to strengthen co-operation on the threats we face. We will rebuild relationships with key European allies, including France and Germany, through increased defence and security co-operation. We will seek new bilateral agreements and closer working with Joint Expeditionary Force partners. This will strengthen NATO and keep Britain safe.”

Copy and pasted from Labours 2024 election manifesto.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 6:31 PM
  • #51,200
The Philosopher said:
The increase in 30 year olds over the last few years is directly linked to the immigration increases.

A shortage of working aged people in this age group to do lesser paid jobs has acted as a pull to migrants.

There are caveats:

The number of working aged people not working has increased, particularly women from “conservative cultures”. As this demographic increases, we need to be strong enough to talk about the issue.

Training and language courses need to be provided to enable greater access to the work market and sanctions for voluntary non-participation. This is fair.

I think I read that there are 9 million non-working working aged people in the UK.

Rather than import more, why not encourage societal inclusion and participation?
Click to expand...

These things all cost money and you were posting the other day about cutting spending as being the only answer.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 6:38 PM
  • #51,201
fernandopartridge said:
These things all cost money and you were posting the other day about cutting spending as being the only answer.
Click to expand...
A program to get people off benefits and in to work else benefits stop?

Talk me through your logic…..
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 6:41 PM
  • #51,202
wingy said:
You do have parallels in the states though, apparently, not that I'm advocating either but.
Click to expand...
I’m neither a US citizen nor resident so basically don’t give a fuck about parallels.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 6:51 PM
  • #51,203
skybluetony176 said:
Except for that time it did

“With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU. But to seize the opportunities ahead, we must make Brexit work. We will reset the relationship and seek to deepen ties with our European friends, neighbours and allies. That does not mean reopening the divisions of the past. There will be no return to the single market, the customs union, or freedom of movement.

Instead, Labour will work to improve the UK’s trade and investment relationship with the EU, by tearing down unnecessary barriers to trade. We will seek to negotiate a veterinary agreement to prevent unnecessary border checks and help tackle the cost of food; will help our touring artists; and secure a mutual recognition agreement for professional qualifications to help open up markets for UK service exporters.

Labour will seek an ambitious new UK-EU security pact to strengthen co-operation on the threats we face. We will rebuild relationships with key European allies, including France and Germany, through increased defence and security co-operation. We will seek new bilateral agreements and closer working with Joint Expeditionary Force partners. This will strengthen NATO and keep Britain safe.”

Copy and pasted from Labour list. The inconsistency isn’t all that surprising.

Labour’s 2024 general election manifesto has explicitly pledged to keep the UK outside of the European Union – despite pressure from other parties to pursue closer ties.

The party’s policy document declares it will be “confident in our status outside of the EU”, but expressed a desire for the UK to be a “leading nation” on the continent.

It also rules out a return to the European single market and customs union or a reintroduction for freedom of movement.
Click to expand...
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 8:57 PM
  • #51,204
The Philosopher said:
A program to get people off benefits and in to work else benefits stop?

Talk me through your logic…..
Click to expand...
You'll be paying benefits and paying for the programme at the same time. What are you doing if the person completes the course but no employer wants them?
 
Reactions: MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Wednesday at 9:07 PM
  • #51,205
skybluetony176 said:
Except for that time it did

“With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU. But to seize the opportunities ahead, we must make Brexit work. We will reset the relationship and seek to deepen ties with our European friends, neighbours and allies. That does not mean reopening the divisions of the past. There will be no return to the single market, the customs union, or freedom of movement.

Instead, Labour will work to improve the UK’s trade and investment relationship with the EU, by tearing down unnecessary barriers to trade. We will seek to negotiate a veterinary agreement to prevent unnecessary border checks and help tackle the cost of food; will help our touring artists; and secure a mutual recognition agreement for professional qualifications to help open up markets for UK service exporters.

Labour will seek an ambitious new UK-EU security pact to strengthen co-operation on the threats we face. We will rebuild relationships with key European allies, including France and Germany, through increased defence and security co-operation. We will seek new bilateral agreements and closer working with Joint Expeditionary Force partners. This will strengthen NATO and keep Britain safe.”

Copy and pasted from Labours 2024 election manifesto.
Click to expand...

Keeping Britain safe. From nonogenarian amputees.

Moment police ‘sprayed 92-year-old with pepper spray in care home before Tasing'

WARNING DISTURBING CONTENT: The jurors were shown body-worn video footage of officers in the moments after Donald Burgess, a single-leg amputee and wheelchair user, was restrained at Park Beck care home in St Leonards-on-Sea, East Sussex.
www.express.co.uk
 
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