Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

fernandopartridge · 2025-05-19T14:51:12+0100

The Philosopher said:
Raising taxes can have a negative effect on the actual revenue to treasury.

I’ll give a couple of examples:

The reason some corporates (Google Amazon EBay) etc. “flag out” in Eire / Lichtenstein / wherever is that they can supply into a market (the EU or UK) and pay 10% or whatever rather than the country of trade and their tax rate. If Eire were to increase their corp tax rate too much then many tech companies would up sticks and they’d get, say, 20% of much less declared tax.

About 20 years ago many haulage firms used EU rules to “flag out” in Holland and legally get around the then extraordinarily high uk road taxes. Result: UK treasury vastly reduced HGV road tax.

Now, taxing UK non-doms and millionaires has resulted in many leaving the country as a tax base and choosing to pay tax elsewhere.

Reducing the amount of disposable income of individuals by higher taxes often means less consumer spending, particularly in hospitality and big ticket items (cars eg) and actively restricts spending and “churn derived” tax income.

So, I see how easy it is to say “tax the rich / corporations / individuals more” as a solution, but the reality is that it doesn’t work that way.

Quantitative easing (printing more money) creates inflation which is another problem.

Our national debt is huge and the interest we pay on the debt is crippling.

So borrowing to make lives a bit easier is a foolish game unless you want to defaukt the debt-holders at some point. It’s incredible how much debt is owed to Rothschild institutions. Don’t look this up, you’ll go down a rabbit hole.

The most logical solution is to cut government spending.

Reduce the size of government.

Be brave enough to say:

“The sacred NHS is a money pit. Big pharmaceutical corporations are taking the biscuit and decision makers in the NHS are to be looked at. A different style of health service is required. ONE THAT IS FREE AT THE POINT OF DELIVERY TO ALL INCLUDING ILLEGAL MIGRANTS*, but can be measured and streamlined with a degree of competition.”

Now, any dribblers who will come out with “you want to privatise the sacred NHS like your mate Nigel”, just get a grip. Look at the French model and educate yourself.

It’s not just the NHS, the Highways Agency is a joke too. Many others.

*(we have to be able to treat anyone who present themselves to NHS facilities. We can’t have people dying on the floors of AandE because they’ve not got health cover. Just bill them or their country or port of origin afterwards. Dinghy migrants with no passport: bill France and also bill France for their hotels. It’d take some B***s to make it fly - so no chance with Starmer. PS, your UK Global Health Insurance card means foreign nations bill us if we are treated abroad. See how it works?)

In the meantime, Starmer and the economic genius that is Reeve are negotiating idiotic strategies with the EU. We might get through passport control 5 mins quicker and join Erasmus (remember the idiots who thought we had to be EU members to sign up to the program? I remember quizzing Clegg in front of a Uni audience: “how many EU nations? (27) How many countries take part in Erasmus? (34) including non-EU Iceland etc. Right…..

So, raising taxes is a no. They’ve gone after farmers and businesses to the extent of crippling.

You may not agree. Don’t care.

UHCW spent £975m running the Trust in its last published annual report, £82m of that on drugs. Big pharma might have questions to answer but they are not really that much to do with why the NHS needs more money. The costs of drugs in theory represents a saving on future healthcare needs anyway?

As for the 'degree of competition' - healthcare services were made subject to compulsory competitive procurement (i.e. needing to advertise formally in OJEU as it was then) on 18 May 2016 and still are today under certain circumstances. This has led to no improvement in the quality and value of services and in many cases just extra expenditure on administration in order not to end up in court.

There is no realistic competition for the part of the NHS that people have the worst experiences with (A&E). What we have instead is competition for easy elective procedures where the NHS competes for the clinical resource with the private sector.

SBT · 2025-05-19T14:52:10+0100

fernandopartridge said:
Don't you remember all the posts criticising Boris Johnson's every action as London mayor?

I’m sure @MalcSB will reply soon to my question about all the Sadiq Khan policies sweeping the nation that he’s so worried about.

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:12:51+0100

fernandopartridge said:
UHCW spent £975m running the Trust in its last published annual report, £82m of that on drugs. Big pharma might have questions to answer but they are not really that much to do with why the NHS needs more money. The costs of drugs in theory represents a saving on future healthcare needs anyway?

As for the 'degree of competition' - healthcare services were made subject to compulsory competitive procurement (i.e. needing to advertise formally in OJEU as it was then) on 18 May 2016 and still are today under certain circumstances. This has led to no improvement in the quality and value of services and in many cases just extra expenditure on administration in order not to end up in court.

There is no realistic competition for the part of the NHS that people have the worst experiences with (A&E). What we have instead is competition for easy elective procedures where the NHS competes for the clinical resource with the private sector.

Internal market seems to have been a complete waste of money.

chiefdave · 2025-05-19T15:14:01+0100

MalcSB said:
Half the value of the house will have gone and she will be restricted with what she can do with the balance.

Without knowing too much about your circumstances you might want to check this. The house should not be taking into consideration assuming your wife is living there. They also shouldn't be able to put a charge against the value of it.

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:24:58+0100

chiefdave said:
Without knowing too much about your circumstances you might want to check this. The house should not be taking into consideration assuming your wife is living there. They also shouldn't be able to put a charge against the value of it.

If only you knew how much I hate the word “should”. And hence equally “shouldn’t”. Such wishy washy words, easily ignorable and certainly not mandates.
I wonder what the difference is between my wife and your dad’s wife?

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:33:55+0100

chiefdave said:
Without knowing too much about your circumstances you might want to check this. The house should not be taking into consideration assuming your wife is living there. They also shouldn't be able to put a charge against the value of it.

Thanks Dave, have had a Quick Look and it’s not as bad as I thought it was..

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:42:13+0100

SBT said:
Like what initiatives?

The bike lanes, bus lanes, ULEZ, speed limits, closing roads.

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:43:16+0100

shmmeee said:
What the fuck are you on about? My “plan” is to raise taxes across a broad base and spend them now on improved social care. Sorry to say you didn’t come into my thinking once.

Merely collateral damage,

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:44:28+0100

RegTheDonk said:
You're obviously a clever bloke so apologies if this is a bit thick but if you had a tax break for private health care, where does the gov get that money from to subsidise the costs? Is it taken from another pot?

I get there would be a reduction in NHS demand, but if the answer is the NHS wouldn't need as much money, then surely that's self-defeating. Having 100 people waiting to see 2 doctors isn't much different from 50 waiting for 1. Again, sorry if I'm missing the point.

Lot smaller waiting list though.

Grendel · 2025-05-19T15:45:22+0100

shmmeee said:
Your pension isn’t the bit that costs. It’s health and social care. The vast majority of NHS spend is on the elderly and social care now eats all of council budgets and then some. And as mentioned doubles those costs and passes them to the NHS when below capacity.

It’s really nice to pretend we can just carry on or even (lmao) spend even less with tax cuts (rofl), but we are heading to a situation in the not too distant future where older millennials who didn’t get on the housing ladder start needing retirement living, while the larger boomer cohort is still sticking around needing care. Then the shit really hits the fan.

How do other countries cope? Our pension is one of the lowest in Europe is it not?

shmmeee · 2025-05-19T15:47:02+0100

MalcSB said:
Lot smaller waiting list though.

Depends how much it costs the insurance to fix. The expensive ones will still be on the NHS because that’s how private insurance works. By letting private companies cherry pick the profitable procedures you leave the tax payer picking up the bill instead of risk being properly amortised over the population.

Like all libertarian bollocks it’s the politics of a child. “Maybe I can do what I want with no consequences, in fact maybe it’s best I do whatever”.

wingy · 2025-05-19T15:47:32+0100

Grendel said:
How do other countries cope? Our pension is one of the lowest in Europe is it not?

Don't have initiatives to contend with?

MalcSB · 2025-05-19T15:47:54+0100

Grendel said:
How do other countries cope? Our pension is one of the lowest in Europe is it not?

No
Also need to take cost of living in to account.

Pension Breakeven Index: How the UK State Pension Compares to Europe

We've compared the UK's pension system to the rest of Europe’s countries to see which one offers the most to retirees. Check it out here.

www.almondfinancial.co.uk

Grendel · 2025-05-19T15:51:20+0100

SBT said:
I’m sure @MalcSB will reply soon to my question about all the Sadiq Khan policies sweeping the nation that he’s so worried about.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make

As major of London is is high profile. Andy Burnham and Andy Street have been high profile and there have been comments on both beyond their actual territories. Khan also was a high profile MP before being Mayor.

shmmeee · 2025-05-19T16:01:11+0100

MalcSB said:
I don’t disagree with the principle. Been promised to no avail several times. Application of Continuing Health Care is a disgrace. It’s not that I’m lucky that I can - there is no option about it. The state is lucky that I can. Hopefully it won’t be for too long.

Cowardly politicians. You can’t go into an election promising it but you can take some hard decisions on tax and fix it when you’ve got four years left. If you’re lucky you get the benefit of people feeling the care service working before the next election. Worse case the furore has died down a bit. You don’t come in worrying about polls and scared to do anything.

SBT · 2025-05-19T16:02:06+0100

MalcSB said:
The bike lanes, bus lanes, ULEZ, speed limits, closing roads.

I’m not sure if Sadiq Khan will be surprised or impressed to learn that he invented bike lanes, speed limits and road closures.

chiefdave · 2025-05-19T16:10:55+0100

MalcSB said:
Those reaching retirement in 10-15 years needing care but with insufficient funds will have it paid for as things stand. Isn’t that less to worry about?

There's not enough money now to properly run the care system. Its woefully understaffed.

My Dad is in year three, at no point has his care home been fully staffed. At one point they were so understaffed the home was put into special measures by the care commission as it was dangerously low and we were warned my Dad may be moved elsewhere at short notice. A bit worrying as when they were originally trying to find somewhere for him there was talk of him going as far away as Manchester due to lack of available capacity anywhere closer.

The numbers in care are only going in one direction, meanwhile we're increasing restrictions on care workers coming in for abroad. Add in that the next generation are less likely to be able to self fund as they are likely to have either struggled to get on the property ladder, have got into debt paying for their parents care and have no property or assets to inherit as that's all gone on care costs and you've got a huge problem.

Personally I'd be quite happy to sign up now to end my life if I end up with dementia or any other illness that will leave me in the state my Dad is in but that's not an option.

SBT · 2025-05-19T16:12:57+0100

Grendel said:
I am not sure what point you are trying to make

As major of London is is high profile. Andy Burnham and Andy Street have been high profile and there have been comments on both beyond their actual territories. Khan also was a high profile MP before being Mayor.

I must have missed the seething Andy Street discourse from without the West Midlands. Got a link?

chiefdave · 2025-05-19T16:13:43+0100

MalcSB said:
I don’t disagree with the principle. Been promised to no avail several times. Application of Continuing Health Care is a disgrace. It’s not that I’m lucky that I can - there is no option about it. The state is lucky that I can. Hopefully it won’t be for too long.

Continuing Health Care is an absolute scandal. It would be a scandal at the best of times but to put people who are having to deal with the deteriorating health of a loved one through the ordeal is beyond belief.

It was the NHS that refused to allow my Dad to return home. They said he was end of life and it would be dangerous for him to return home as he needed 24/7 care. So he got put into a care home which, as is common, is initially funded by the NHS. However that then triggers a process of an assessment being carried out. Several times the assessment was booked, which involved me taking time off work each time but didn't happen, cancelled on multiple occasions because he was too ill it was deemed a waste of time, on other occasions either the council or NHS representative didn't even show up.

Eventually we had the initial assessment and the assessor said he clearly qualified. At that point my Dad was not bed bound, could recognise people and have a conversation, albeit not making much sense. So for several months the NHS paid for his care, during which time he rapidly deteriorated.

Then the system was charged and it came under the integrated care board, they decided he needed a review. However they didn't tell me this was happening so I wasn't at the meeting. One day, as my Mum was leaving the home, she was told the meeting was happening and she should attend. Now my Mum is old, deaf and unable to deal with basically anything so had no clue what was going on. In fact she didn't even know the meeting was about funding. The representatives from the care board couldn't be bothered to visit the home so did it on Zoom so she couldn't hear a word.

First I knew of it was when I get a letter saying his funding was being withdrawn. They have since brushed off complaints about how the review was done and not informing anyone. Now in the third stage of appealing, which isn't even halfway. Has taken two years and their latest reason for turning down the appeal is that the home, that remember was so badly run it was in special measures, has incomplete records and therefore they can't verify the information I am giving them.

In all this time not a single person has actually seen my Dad in person to assess him. Whole system is clearly designed to wear people down and make them give up.

Grendel · 2025-05-19T16:17:38+0100

SBT said:
I must have missed the seething Andy Street discourse from without the West Midlands. Got a link?

He appeared on numerous national debates. Why have you not included the other Mayor I mentioned?

This is Philosopher type nonsense you are indulging in. Sadiq Khan was far higher profile in office than Ken Livingstone. Its just odd.

SBT · 2025-05-19T16:28:38+0100

Grendel said:
He appeared on numerous national debates. Why have you not included the other Mayor I mentioned?

This is Philosopher type nonsense you are indulging in. Sadiq Khan was far higher profile in office than Ken Livingstone. It’s just odd.

There isn’t a great deal of scrutiny of Andy Burnham’s stewardship of municipal Manchester politics either - unless you can show me otherwise?

You really think Khan was a more high-profile MP on the national stage than Ken Livingstone?

PVA · 2025-05-19T16:29:33+0100

This new deal with the EU seems decent enough.

A step in the right direction.

chiefdave · 2025-05-19T16:31:03+0100

PVA said:
This new deal with the EU seems decent enough.

A step in the right direction.

What colour passports will we have to have? NGL, I quite liked getting a stamp in mine everytime I went anywhere.

shmmeee · 2025-05-19T16:36:39+0100

PVA said:
This new deal with the EU seems decent enough.

A step in the right direction.

Eldest wants to live in Paris for a year before uni or after it, she’s 15. Really hope some form of youth mobility goes through before then.

PVA · 2025-05-19T16:47:45+0100

shmmeee said:
Eldest wants to live in Paris for a year before uni or after it, she’s 15. Really hope some form of youth mobility goes through before then.

I didn't like Paris when I went so I can't agree with her choice of destination but yeah definitely would be a huge thing for so many kids

chiefdave · 2025-05-19T16:53:07+0100

PVA said:
I didn't like Paris when I went so I can't agree with her choice of destination but yeah definitely would be a huge thing for so many kids

Paris would be very low on my list of places to live for a year having been there!

PVA · 2025-05-19T16:53:52+0100

shmmeee · 2025-05-19T17:08:20+0100

chiefdave said:
Paris would be very low on my list of places to live for a year having been there!

Same but I’m not a fashion obsessed teenage girl.

Grendel · 2025-05-19T17:10:49+0100

PVA said:

I’ve consistently said the vote was close and we should have explored a Norway type arrangement

So what are the actual benefits here at all?

PVA · 2025-05-19T17:28:45+0100

Grendel said:
I’ve consistently said the vote was close and we should have explored a Norway type arrangement

So what are the actual benefits here at all?

Well it's hardly going to reverse the damage of the vote but it's all sensible stuff, albeit fairly minor in the scheme of things, and as I say it's a step in the right direction.

Grendel · 2025-05-19T17:30:39+0100

PVA said:
Well it's hardly going to reverse the damage of the vote but it's all sensible stuff, albeit fairly minor in the scheme of things, and as I say it's a step in the right direction.

What are the benefits? What’s the actual direction?

PVA · 2025-05-19T17:33:12+0100

Grendel said:
What are the benefits? What’s the actual direction?

The answers to both questions are really quite obvious.

There is literally nothing in there that is bad for the UK. You can argue we could go further, but absolutely no one can say this is a bad deal for the UK (though many will try of course).

Grendel · 2025-05-19T17:37:16+0100

PVA said:
The answers to both questions are really quite obvious.

There is literally nothing in there that is bad for the UK. You can argue we could go further, but absolutely no one can say this is a bad deal for the UK (though many will try of course).

Im not saying anything. What are the benefits - not what’s bad - what’s really good?

Even Reform don’t seem that bothered other than fishing rights

Sick Boy · 2025-05-19T17:44:42+0100

chiefdave said:
What colour passports will we have to have? NGL, I quite liked getting a stamp in mine everytime I went anywhere.

In a lot of airports, British passport holders can already use the eGates but still get a stamp - that isn't going to change until EES is brought in.

Grendel · 2025-05-19T18:04:35+0100

Sick Boy said:
In a lot of airports, British passport holders can already use the eGates but still get a stamp - that isn't going to change until EES is brought in.

Starmer is just a clown

He makes grandiose comments about a deal with Europe to put us on tbe global stage

Last week he was mimicking Enoch Powell with his “Island of Strangers” nonsense.

What an embarrassment he is

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

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