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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (43 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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CCfC2023

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,931
MalcSB said:
This is a fascinating publication.

Never worked / long term unemployed have an average wealth of £100,000!

How have they managed that?
Click to expand...
inheritance ?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,932
Sadly the Chancellor's intervention to the courts on behalf of the people money lenders has failed.

Supreme court judges reject Reeves’ motor finance intervention

Chancellor had sought to prevent lenders caught up in commissions scandal being handed £44bn bill
www.theguardian.com
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,933
CCfC2023 said:
inheritance ?
Click to expand...
A possibility, for them it is good fortune that older people are apparently the wealthiest - and then they die.

Wealth seems to decline after 69 years old for some reason. Social care costs?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,934
fernandopartridge said:
Sadly the Chancellor's intervention to the courts on behalf of the people money lenders has failed.

Supreme court judges reject Reeves’ motor finance intervention

Chancellor had sought to prevent lenders caught up in commissions scandal being handed £44bn bill
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
The weasel words used to justify the attempted intervention are shocking.

If this was a Tory chancellor, @shmmeee would be all over this.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,935
Isn't privatisation brilliant

Thames Water wins court backing for £3bn debt package

Deal approved at high court gives company £1.5bn in upfront cash to stave off collapse
www.theguardian.com
 
Reactions: mmttww

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,936
MalcSB said:
The weasel words used to justify the attempted intervention are shocking.

If this was a Tory chancellor, @shmmeee would be all over this.
Click to expand...

I’ve just opened a claim with Close Brothers after reading that. No idea if I’m affected but free money I guess?
 

fingers_crossed

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,937
fernandopartridge said:
Isn't privatisation brilliant

Thames Water wins court backing for £3bn debt package

Deal approved at high court gives company £1.5bn in upfront cash to stave off collapse
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
That’s part of the problem, but biggest single issue is the rapacity of Private Equity. Macquarie hollowed out Thames, loaded it with debt, and dumped it on some other poor mugs to carry the can, in this case ultimately the tax payer. But everywhere across the UK and the US these companies are extracting value from businesses, firing workers and creating bankruptcies, all whilst enriching themselves. The list of what they own is as endless as their profits.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, duffer and fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,938
fingers_crossed said:
That’s part of the problem, but biggest single issue is the rapacity of Private Equity. Macquarie hollowed out Thames, loaded it with debt, and dumped it on some other poor mugs to carry the can, in this case ultimately the tax payer. But everywhere across the UK and the US these companies are extracting value from businesses, firing workers and creating bankruptcies, all whilst enriching themselves. The list of what they own is as endless as their profits.
Click to expand...
Root cause of that is opening it up to the market. The shareholder democracy exposed for the nonsense it is or was.
 
Reactions: duffer

fingers_crossed

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,939
fernandopartridge said:
Root cause of that is opening it up to the market. The shareholder democracy exposed for the nonsense it is or was.
Click to expand...
Ofc but there’s a much bigger problem than than this. Private Equity is sucking money and jobs out of the country from every angle. They own the fostering agencies, the care homes, the specialist care centres, almost everywhere the government is spending money they’re there on the other side. It’s ironic that we can’t afford to pay for the king to have a yacht anymore, but the PE partners are all buying yachts with the money the government are giving them.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,940
fingers_crossed said:
Ofc but there’s a much bigger problem than than this. Private Equity is sucking money and jobs out of the country from every angle. They own the fostering agencies, the care homes, the specialist care centres, almost everywhere the government is spending money they’re there on the other side. It’s ironic that we can’t afford to pay for the king to have a yacht anymore, but the PE partners are all buying yachts with the money the government are giving them.
Click to expand...

The foster/care stuff is an absolute disgrace.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,941
MalcSB said:
This is a fascinating publication.

Never worked / long term unemployed have an average wealth of £100,000!

How have they managed that?
Click to expand...
Royalty?
 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,942
MalcSB said:
This is a fascinating publication.

Never worked / long term unemployed have an average wealth of £100,000!

How have they managed that?
Click to expand...

If the most interesting thing you pull from that publication is that some people who've never worked are surprisingly wealthy, I'm not surprised you vote the way you do!

I was more drawn to the wealth inequality line, personally, because I sincerely doubt most people on universal credit, long term sickness benefit etc. etc., have £100,000 tucked down the back of the sofa.

A few very rich slackers at the other end of the scale, skewing the _average_ measurement, might do though.

Maybe that's I vote the way I do.
 
S

Skybluekyle

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,943
fernandopartridge said:
Sadly the Chancellor's intervention to the courts on behalf of the people money lenders has failed.

Supreme court judges reject Reeves’ motor finance intervention

Chancellor had sought to prevent lenders caught up in commissions scandal being handed £44bn bill
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
In fairness, the situation is more complex than simply just an attempt to avoid redressing impacted customers, the ruling could (I stress "could" as it is not known what it would be) have wider impacts on brokered consumer finance, as well as the motor industry as finance providers get twitchy and pull back from providing car finance.

Of course the court should not really care about the impact, as the interest-based commissions paid to car dealers are either lawful or unlawful, but it is natural for stakeholders, such as the UK Government, to be concerned. Obviously, justice should prevail, whatever the Supreme Court decide.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,944
Skybluekyle said:
In fairness, the situation is more complex than simply just an attempt to avoid redressing impacted customers, the ruling could (I stress "could" as it is not known what it would be) have wider impacts on brokered consumer finance, as well as the motor industry as finance providers get twitchy and pull back from providing car finance.

Of course the court should not really care about the impact, as the interest-based commissions paid to car dealers are either lawful or unlawful, but it is natural for stakeholders, such as the UK Government, to be concerned. Obviously, justice should prevail, whatever the Supreme Court decide.
Click to expand...
Don't you work for a financial institution?
 
S

Skybluekyle

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2025
  • #48,945
fernandopartridge said:
Don't you work for a financial institution?
Click to expand...
Will you excuse me for a moment?

 
Reactions: SBT, CCFCSteve and fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2025
  • #48,946
How do you end up with such lightweights as ministers?


Taking credit for the independent BOE cutting interest rates? They've felt that they can do that due to how poorly the economy is performing not because it's performing well.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy-report/2025/february-2025
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2025
  • #48,947
Going well Rachel

UK inflation jumps to 3%, reducing chance of early interest rate cut

Annual CPI inflation rate hit 10-month high in January in blow to ministers amid rise in food bills and fuel costs
www.theguardian.com
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2025
  • #48,948
Interesting that education is a factor in the CPI calculation, given only 7% of the population are privately educated. I assume it is weighted?
 
C

CovValleyBoy

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2025
  • #48,949
"She's only gone & blown the bloody doors off"
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2025
  • #48,950
fernandopartridge said:
Interesting that education is a factor in the CPI calculation, given only 7% of the population are privately educated. I assume it is weighted?
Click to expand...

Yeah, will be weighted. Likely only small impact. Larger impact is businesses increasing prices at start of the year (standard) but raising them even more because of the upcoming employer NIC increase. Plus the usuals, energy etc
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,951
fernandopartridge said:
Royalty?
Click to expand...
Are there enough of them to skew that stats that much?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,952
CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, will be weighted. Likely only small impact. Larger impact is businesses increasing prices at start of the year (standard) but raising them even more because of the upcoming employer NIC increase. Plus the usuals, energy etc
Click to expand...
And energy is to go up quite a bit with the new energy cap. Not what Labour allowed us to think pre election. If their £300 reduction pledge had expired by election day, which proves it is not worth listening to pledges by opposition parties, they really ought to come out and say it very clearly
It’s obvious I’m still fixated on that £300 despite a number of posters telling me that was dropped two years ago. Unless the intention is to allow prices to go up mahooosively and, as they edge down, claim the £300. Cynical I know, but they will be desperate. Inflation up, growth not as much as forecast.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,953
MalcSB said:
And energy is to go up quite a bit with the new energy cap. Not what Labour allowed us to think pre election. If their £300 reduction pledge had expired by election day, which proves it is not worth listening to pledges by opposition parties, they really ought to come out and say it very clearly
It’s obvious I’m still fixated on that £300 despite a number of posters telling me that was dropped two years ago. Unless the intention is to allow prices to go up mahooosively and, as they edge down, claim the £300. Cynical I know, but they will be desperate. Inflation up, growth not as much as forecast.
Click to expand...

You keep banging on about this but don’t seem to know the details. There was a report that stated a fully clean energy system could reduce bills by £300 on average. Obviously we do not have a clean energy system, Labours pledge was to have one by 2030. There was never a pledge to immediately reduce energy bills by £300 no matter how much you pretend there was for outrage.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,954
Mmmmm

FactCheck: government fails to confirm £300 energy promise

The new Labour government has failed to confirm to FactCheck that it stands by a key election pledge to cut energy bills by up to £300 - despite the prime minister saying he was committed to the figure just last week.
www.channel4.com
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,955
shmmeee said:
You keep banging on about this but don’t seem to know the details. There was a report that stated a fully clean energy system could reduce bills by £300 on average. Obviously we do not have a clean energy system, Labours pledge was to have one by 2030. There was never a pledge to immediately reduce energy bills by £300 no matter how much you pretend there was for outrage.
Click to expand...

Serious question, I know you're a bit more clued on this sort of thing. For example, why haven't the council added something like £5pcm onto council tax and used it to fund a clean energy initiative, so a wind farm is built on the edge of the city or even in the city centre of top of buildings (is that even possible?) in return, the residents of the city get cheaper energy and even excess can be sold of to the grid.

Even stuff like forcing new housing estates in this city to come with Solar built on every home just seems sensible to me.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, wingy and MalcSB

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,956
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,957
Marty said:
Serious question, I know you're a bit more clued on this sort of thing. For example, why haven't the council added something like £5pcm onto council tax and used it to fund a clean energy initiative, so a wind farm is built on the edge of the city or even in the city centre of top of buildings (is that even possible?) in return, the residents of the city get cheaper energy and even excess can be sold of to the grid.

Even stuff like forcing new housing estates in this city to come with Solar built on every home just seems sensible to me.
Click to expand...

A lot of this sort of thing was in Corbyns plans. I dunno man. I don’t get the uk energy market at all, I asked ChatGPT to explain it to me the other day and came out none the wiser.

Generally though councils have no powers to raise taxes beyond limited council tax rises. 2% (which is below inflation recently) before you need a referendum.

As with transport it would really help if they could do stuff like this. There’s been attempts to force developers to do things but there’s always pushback that it’ll make housing more expensive so we can’t do it.
 
Last edited: Feb 20, 2025

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,958
Captain Dart said:
Click to expand...

Claims Labour pledged to freeze energy bills appears to refer to old policy – Full Fact

Labour pledged to keep energy bills frozen in response to rising prices in 2022. It did not make any such promise in its recent election manifesto.
fullfact.org

As a general rule of thumb if James Melville is tweeting it it’s probably nonsense.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,959
People really seem to struggle with the difference between a soundbite from several years ago to an actual general election manifesto.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,960
PVA said:
People really seem to struggle with the difference between a soundbite from several years ago to an actual general election manifesto.
Click to expand...

Also what was happening in 2022. As the article says this was before the energy price guarantee or whatever it was called when prices were higher than now. This graph is useful to reference prices at the time.

 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,961
PVA said:
People really seem to struggle with the difference between a soundbite from several years ago to an actual general election manifesto.
Click to expand...

Not as much as people struggling when somebody from Labour is found to be bullshitting. Literally have to Google Tory bullshit to comfort themselves like a blanket. Sat in the corner talking to themselves telling them that it will all be OK because the Tories do it as well.

Weird.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,962
Nick said:
Not as much as people struggling when somebody from Labour is found to be bullshitting. Literally have to Google Tory bullshit to comfort themselves like a blanket. Sat in the corner talking to themselves telling them that it will all be OK because the Tories do it as well.

Weird.
Click to expand...

The only person to mention the Tories on this page is... you.

'Weird'.

Oh and Malc has as well.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,963
If Labour taxed the wealthy at an appropriate rate they could afford to stop lying about stuff
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,964
shmmeee said:

Claims Labour pledged to freeze energy bills appears to refer to old policy – Full Fact

Labour pledged to keep energy bills frozen in response to rising prices in 2022. It did not make any such promise in its recent election manifesto.
fullfact.org

As a general rule of thumb if James Melville is tweeting it it’s probably nonsense.
Click to expand...
It's a clip from the Jeremy Vine program where Starmer makes a clear pre election promise not to raise energy bills a promise he has now broken amongst others rand all you can do in make an ad hominem attack without any engagement with the content.
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 20, 2025
  • #48,965
shmmeee said:
A lot of this sort of thing was in Corbyns plans. I dunno man. I don’t get the uk energy market at all, I asked ChatGPT to explain it to me the other day and came out none the wiser.

Generally though councils have no powers to raise taxes beyond limited council tax rises. 2% (which is below inflation recently) before you need a referendum.

As with transport it would really help if they could do stuff like this. There’s been attempts to force developers to do things but there’s always pushback that it’ll make housing more expensive so we can’t do it.
Click to expand...

I have had just a quick look, I reckon you could power the homes of Coventry with 90 2MW turbines at a cost of around £200m. Obviously fag packet maths from the first links on google but seems like a huge opportunity for someone/council.

It seems you can get roof top wind turbines as well now, which I wasn't aware off. Something I'm going to explore as my roof isn't suitable for Solar without major rework.
 
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