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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (24 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,886
MalcSB said:
Employment Rights Bill - not fit for purpose

Employment Rights Bill: RPC opinion (red-rated)

Regulatory Policy Committee’s opinion on the impact assessments (IA) for the Employment Rights Bill.
www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
Is there any context
I like that we have government groups that hold legislation to such high standards
I wonder what other changes have received similar challenge
I know from other legislative changes that things change regularly from conception to roll out
The government would be daft to ignore the comments and I’d be gobsmacked if they did
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,887
MalcSB said:
Starmer 25 November 2024

Speaking to ITV, Sir Keir said: "Look, I remind myself that very many people didn't vote Labour at the last election.

"I'm not surprised that many of them want a rerun. That isn't how our system works."

Starmer 5 July 2024

Sir Keir Starmer has promised to build a "government of service" after becoming the UK's first Labour prime minister since 2010.

Speaking outside 10 Downing Street after his party's landslide election win, he pledged to restore trust in politics and “navigate away to calmer waters”.

And appealing directly to voters who did not back his party, he vowed to put “country first" and govern “unburdened by doctrine”.

Not taken him long to show that those who didn’t vote Labour are of no real concern to him, despite his slippery lies back in July.
Click to expand...

He's right though, it isn't how the system works.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,888
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Wife and I have given up on them doing anything to help during their one term in power. Might well not bother voting at all next time, governments at best do not help and at worst make things actively worse.
Click to expand...
Don’t be like that
Get involved at other levels
Decisions are made by those in the room
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,889
Sky Blue Pete said:
Do you agree it shouldn’t be given to everyone?
Click to expand...
To be clear, I used to get it but frankly didn’t really need it. I will get my £10 Christmas bonus soon, which equally I don’t need.

However, introducing the change at such short notice really made me really angry, along side the failure to acknowledge the potential impact it will have on many people. Just apply for pension credit! If you can get through the tortuous process which will give you a decision after the winter. Too late for some unfortunately.

I have also got quite angry about the general attitude towards “boomers”, who are basically blamed as the reason for all of today’s societal problems. This has got me to the point where clearly the Labour “project” is not for, and does not include, me and I have reached the point of “fuck you”.

Im afraid that is being expressed by me nit picking up every little anti labour points that I can, it’s astonishing in gene4al how poor the defence of this government has been given the pre election expectations.
 
Reactions: nicksar

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,890
Marty said:
Not sure why they need to offer them money, if governments don't want them there any more then just get them sent home, all criminals should automatically be deported, no matter how low level the crime or risks they face back home.
Click to expand...
You know why that’s not a great idea don’t you
One is often they don’t serve their sentence
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,891
Starmer has only gone and done it the absolute mad lad! (This is because of a storm, maybe we can do weather manipulation )

 
Reactions: MalcSB
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,892
Sky Blue Pete said:
Don’t be like that
Get involved at other levels
Decisions are made by those in the room
Click to expand...
Too cynical for that now Pete
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,893
shmmeee said:
Starmer has only gone and done it the absolute mad lad! (This is because of a storm, maybe we can do weather manipulation )

View attachment 39789
Click to expand...
A colleague of my wife’s has genuinely blamed Starmer for the flooding where they live
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,894
Brighton Sky Blue said:
A colleague of my wife’s has genuinely blamed Starmer for the flooding where they live
Click to expand...

Thanks OStarmer
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,895
MalcSB said:
Employment Rights Bill - not fit for purpose

Employment Rights Bill: RPC opinion (red-rated)

Regulatory Policy Committee’s opinion on the impact assessments (IA) for the Employment Rights Bill.
www.gov.uk
Click to expand...

I don't think it is saying the bill itself is necessarily unfit for purpose, just that the impact assessments provided are not sufficiently evidenced.

These is incompetence from those behind the bill, so whichever department supported whichever minister(s) to develop it.

It's probably not very helpful for these matters to keep talking about sacking civil servants as they're the ones that do all the work.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,896
Sky Blue Pete said:
Is there any context
I like that we have government groups that hold legislation to such high standards
I wonder what other changes have received similar challenge
I know from other legislative changes that things change regularly from conception to roll out
The government would be daft to ignore the comments and I’d be gobsmacked if they did
Click to expand...
We will find out just how incompetent this lot are soon enough,
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,897
MalcSB said:
We will find out just how incompetent this lot are soon enough,
Click to expand...

It’s a bit weird to hope that the government of your country will be incompetent so your backing of the unquestionably incompetent looks better.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,898
MalcSB said:
To be clear, I used to get it but frankly didn’t really need it. I will get my £10 Christmas bonus soon, which equally I don’t need.

However, introducing the change at such short notice really made me really angry, along side the failure to acknowledge the potential impact it will have on many people. Just apply for pension credit! If you can get through the tortuous process which will give you a decision after the winter. Too late for some unfortunately.

I have also got quite angry about the general attitude towards “boomers”, who are basically blamed as the reason for all of today’s societal problems. This has got me to the point where clearly the Labour “project” is not for, and does not include, me and I have reached the point of “fuck you”.

Im afraid that is being expressed by me nit picking up every little anti labour points that I can, it’s astonishing in gene4al how poor the defence of this government has been given the pre election expectations.
Click to expand...
For me this decision is possibly the most appalling one for a social justice party who are set up to look after the vulnerable and oppressed be that for the worker against the boss or redistribute extreme wealth and poverty

I can’t believe Keir and Rachel have been defending the level. I’d love to have sight of the impact assessment. An easy answer would be set it at the minimum wage level

I’d always assumed that it wasn’t cost effective to give a benefit to some and not to others hence child benefit always being given but then that changed and it’s not given for those paying higher rate

And in any case it must be possible now. So I don’t think all pensioners require this £300 and it’s right not to give government money to people who don’t need it. Part of why I have always been against privatisation and selling businesses that are monopolies.

I can’t believe that my Labour Party can’t see how poor this decision is it’s like Gordon brown removing the lower rate of tax it was madness
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,899
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Too cynical for that now Pete
Click to expand...
I understand but when people like you duck out it’s left to Farage’s boys
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,900
Sky Blue Pete said:
For me this decision is possibly the most appalling one for a social justice party who are set up to look after the vulnerable and oppressed be that for the worker against the boss or redistribute extreme wealth and poverty

I can’t believe Keir and Rachel have been defending the level. I’d love to have sight of the impact assessment. An easy answer would be set it at the minimum wage level

I’d always assumed that it wasn’t cost effective to give a benefit to some and not to others hence child benefit always being given but then that changed and it’s not given for those paying higher rate

And in any case it must be possible now. So I don’t think all pensioners require this £300 and it’s right not to give government money to people who don’t need it. Part of why I have always been against privatisation and selling businesses that are monopolies.

I can’t believe that my Labour Party can’t see how poor this decision is it’s like Gordon brown removing the lower rate of tax it was madness
Click to expand...
They didn’t do an impact assessment in advance of the change.

The child benefit thing is more complicated than that, isn’t it. I thought they give it to everyone, and then take it back in tax if one of the parents earns more than ?£60k.

I paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax and NI during my working life. The WFA was something that made me feel “considered” by society. No longer, so service to self it will be.

Looking forward to my new gas boiler being installed by Christmas That should see me out to my
 
Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,901
Brighton Sky Blue said:
A colleague of my wife’s has genuinely blamed Starmer for the flooding where they live
Click to expand...

Although not his fault personally, if local councils looked after drainage then I bet flooding wouldn't be as bad.

Walked to the shop yesterday and pretty much ever drain at the side of the road was blocked.
 
Reactions: Marty, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Brighton Sky Blue and 2 others

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,902
Sky Blue Pete said:
For me this decision is possibly the most appalling one for a social justice party who are set up to look after the vulnerable and oppressed be that for the worker against the boss or redistribute extreme wealth and poverty

I can’t believe Keir and Rachel have been defending the level. I’d love to have sight of the impact assessment. An easy answer would be set it at the minimum wage level

I’d always assumed that it wasn’t cost effective to give a benefit to some and not to others hence child benefit always being given but then that changed and it’s not given for those paying higher rate

And in any case it must be possible now. So I don’t think all pensioners require this £300 and it’s right not to give government money to people who don’t need it. Part of why I have always been against privatisation and selling businesses that are monopolies.

I can’t believe that my Labour Party can’t see how poor this decision is it’s like Gordon brown removing the lower rate of tax it was madness
Click to expand...

Ultimately if people are pushed into poverty by losing the WFP then their support wasn’t enough in the first place. I think like the farms there’s a good argument to be had over the right thresholds, but in both cases most people agree the general principle is sound.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,903
shmmeee said:
Ultimately if people are pushed into poverty by losing the WFP then their support wasn’t enough in the first place. I think like the farms there’s a good argument to be had over the right thresholds, but in both cases most people agree the general principle is sound.
Click to expand...
Organise a petition to show that most people support it. In your bubble, may be. Not in mine.

At least when I say most people don’t support the Labour Party, there is some evidence to support me,
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,904
Nick said:
Although not his fault personally, if local councils looked after drainage then I bet flooding wouldn't be as bad.

Walked to the shop yesterday and pretty much ever drain at the side of the road was blocked.
Click to expand...
Local councils still aren’t Starmer!
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,905
Sky Blue Pete said:
I understand but when people like you duck out it’s left to Farage’s boys
Click to expand...
I have been on the ‘winning’ side in a grand total of two of all the votes I’ve cast since 2010. Voting doesn’t make a difference when a snake oil salesman can get in by telling whatever people want to hear.
 
Reactions: MalcSB, Sky Blue Pete and SIR ERNIE

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,906
MalcSB said:
Organise a petition to show that most people support it. In your bubble, may be. Not in mine.

At least when I say most people don’t support the Labour Party, there is some evidence to support me,
Click to expand...

I don’t think many support giving free money to millionaires or facilitating their tax avoidance.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,907
MalcSB said:
Organise a petition to show that most people support it. In your bubble, may be. Not in mine.

At least when I say most people don’t support the Labour Party, there is some evidence to support me,
Click to expand...
To be fair it’s very rare that any party gets over half the vote in this country, so you can again say this of most governments.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,908
Brighton Sky Blue said:
To be fair it’s very rare that any party gets over half the vote in this country, so you can again say this of most governments.
Click to expand...

Trump didn’t even get half the vote in basically a two way contest.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,909
shmmeee said:
I don’t think many support giving free money to millionaires or facilitating their tax avoidance.
Click to expand...
They do cause we only need tax to pay for migrant hotels
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,910
shmmeee said:
I don’t think many support giving free money to millionaires or facilitating their tax avoidance.
Click to expand...
That tired old argument again.

Im not a millionaire and I don’t avoid tax. If only I could.

Its not free money, I am paying for it through my still significant sums in income tax.

There are lots of things I would rather my tax not being spent on. Putting up illegal immigrants in hotels being one of them.

Sending 470 delegates to a COP being another. Paying civil servants London Weighting Allowance for working at home or on the beach yet another.
 
Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
Reactions: Como, 100 miles from Cov. and nicksar

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,911
fernandopartridge said:
He's right though, it isn't how the system works.
Click to expand...
Only because of a piece of Tory legislation which limits a governments freedoms to call an election
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,912
shmmeee said:
Starmer has only gone and done it the absolute mad lad! (This is because of a storm, maybe we can do weather manipulation )

View attachment 39789
Click to expand...
Every cloud has a silver lining, thanks goodness for global warming.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,913
MalcSB said:
I paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax and NI during my working life. The WFA was something that made me feel “considered” by society. No longer, so service to self it will be.
Click to expand...
Forgive me for thinking your commitment to communitarian ideals was never that strong if the loss of a £300 payment was enough for you to abandon them entirely.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,914
Oh and why are we surprised there’s 2.5m people that want another General Election?

10 million people voted Tory and Reform so all of those people clearly never wanted and don’t want a Labour government.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, chiefdave and Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,915
MalcSB said:
That tired old argument again.

Im not a millionaire and I don’t avoid tax. If only I could.

Its not free money, I am paying for it through my still significant sums in income tax.

There are lots of things I would rather my tax not being spent on. Putting up illegal immigrants in hotels being one of them.

Sending 470 delegates to a COP being another. Paying civil servants London Weighting Allowance for working at home or on the beach yet another.
Click to expand...

Civil servants have to attend the office 3 days per week, so they should be paid London weighting allowance. It's a strange thing but my commuting costs buying individual tickets per day (not in London) to go to the office 3 x per week are as expensive as the repayment on an annual season ticket.

People housed in hotels sequestered by the Home Office are asylum seekers. They are not 'illegal immigrants' until the point that they are denied asylum.

As a country we either need to face up to the fact that we, like all other relatively rich western nations, are going to be somewhere that people will try to migrate to/ seek asylum in. As part of that, we need to face up to the fact that we need to create accommodation to house people coming here so the Home Office isn't using "4 star hotels" to do it.
 
Reactions: SBT

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,916
MalcSB said:
That tired old argument again.

Im not a millionaire and I don’t avoid tax. If only I could.

Its not free money, I am paying for it through my still significant sums in income tax.

There are lots of things I would rather my tax not being spent on. Putting up illegal immigrants in hotels being one of them.

Sending 470 delegates to a COP being another. Paying civil servants London Weighting Allowance for working at home or on the beach yet another.
Click to expand...

But that’s a threshold argument. It’s like the old joke:
would you sleep with me for £1m?
“Yes”
would you for £10?
“What do you think I am??”
We know what you are, we’re just negotiating on price.

We agree Elton John shouldn’t get it and people genuinely in need should. I’m open to the idea the threshold for both pension credit and farming IHT is set too low, but I think there should be a threshold for wealth transfers to already very wealthy groups on average.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,917
fernandopartridge said:
Civil servants have to attend the office 3 days per week, so they should be paid London weighting allowance. It's a strange thing but my commuting costs buying individual tickets per day (not in London) to go to the office 3 x per week are as expensive as the repayment on an annual season ticket.

People housed in hotels sequestered by the Home Office are asylum seekers. They are not 'illegal immigrants' until the point that they are denied asylum.

As a country we either need to face up to the fact that we, like all other relatively rich western nations, are going to be somewhere that people will try to migrate to/ seek asylum in. As part of that, we need to face up to the fact that we need to create accommodation to house people coming here so the Home Office isn't using "4 star hotels" to do it.
Click to expand...
Or not reform say we just stop and send them back
Can’t be hard surely lol
 
Reactions: Como

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,918
shmmeee said:
But that’s a threshold argument. It’s like the old joke:
would you sleep with me for £1m?
“Yes”
would you for £10?
“What do you think I am??”
We know what you are, we’re just negotiating on price.

We agree Elton John shouldn’t get it and people genuinely in need should. I’m open to the idea the threshold for both pension credit and farming IHT is set too low, but I think there should be a threshold for wealth transfers to already very wealthy groups on average.
Click to expand...
Me too
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,919
In fact the more I think about it the more I think some of the money raised should have gone towards increasing pension credit or lowering the threshold, but no idea if the sums add up.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 26, 2024
  • #45,920
SBT said:
Forgive me for thinking your commitment to communitarian ideals was never that strong if the loss of a £300 payment was enough for you to abandon them entirely.
Click to expand...
As I have said, I personally didn’t need it. It’s the way it was done and a genuine shock that a Labour government would do it that really angered me. Also the enormous anti-boomer sentiment- just turned me right off. There are people on here who have really shifted me politically to the right which I’m sure would t have been their intention.

I contributed massively to the benefit of communities through my job. It’s clear that my age group is abominated by many these days, and I’m sorry, but fuck em. I would be better off not paying taxes, not getting the state pension and paying for my health and eventual social care myself. Of course, I will be paying for the latter anyway, whilst illegal I migrants get put up in hotels etc.

Edit I am self aware enough to recognise that I have basically “lost my shit” over this, but hey ho. I just don’t care,
 
Reactions: nicksar and Como
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