Non AMP
Sky Blues Talk
  • Home
  • Forums
  • General Discussion
  • Off Topic Chat
This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
Forums New posts
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 1263
  • 1264
  • 1265
  • 1266
  • 1267
  • …
  • 1495
Next
First Prev 1265 of 1495 Next Last

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,241
shmmeee said:
Ozempic with be in the water by 2030 at this rate. Miracle drug.

View attachment 38746
Click to expand...
Just reading the article, very interesting stuff. Can't help but feel we need to move faster with this. The article states 1 in 8 adults in the US using these type of drugs. Increasingly they are covered by health insurance as the cost over the long term works out far far cheaper.

But here they are near impossible to get on the NHS even after the previous government promised to fast track them to as many people as possible after initial trials produced astonishing results. Just this week it has been reported that this will be pushed out to 1.6m brits. Sounds good right? Problem is that's over 12 years!


think this is still a big problem. I first went to the docs about my weight in 2010, I've been through pretty much every service the NHS has to offer and frankly they are not fit for purpose. During the pandemic I ended up having a long conversation with a specialist at Walsgrave who happened to be covering when I went in for some respiratory tests.

Without naming these drugs, which weren't being publicised then, he said he was hopefully we were finally going to move away from "eat less, move more". As he pointed out we've been prescribing that for decades and in people who seek assistance from the NHS regarding weight the failure rate is over 99% He said this simply wouldn't happen with any other treatment, if you trialed a cancer drug with less than 1% success rate it would be binned.

He also said that in all honesty many doctors don't believe what you're telling them if you're not losing weight. Even in the medical community there is an assumption that it is your fault.

He likened it to when doctors endorsed smoking and that in the not to distant future we could see lawsuits against companies promised weight watchers similar to those we saw against tobacco companies.
 
Reactions: Marty

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,242
Mcbean said:
Ed Milliband is pretty thick - his carbon capture 22bn project was undone by a Scientist in less than 30 seconds this morning - he also thinks during the winter everyone will do their shopping in a pushbike -twat !
Click to expand...
irrespective of how effective or not it may be surely they can see the poor optics of announcing a 22bn project when you're telling pensioners they'll lose winter fuel allowance and telling everyone else to prepare for pain in the budget because of a 22bn black hole in the finances!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,243
chiefdave said:
Just reading the article, very interesting stuff. Can't help but feel we need to move faster with this. The article states 1 in 8 adults in the US using these type of drugs. Increasingly they are covered by health insurance as the cost over the long term works out far far cheaper.

But here they are near impossible to get on the NHS even after the previous government promised to fast track them to as many people as possible after initial trials produced astonishing results. Just this week it has been reported that this will be pushed out to 1.6m brits. Sounds good right? Problem is that's over 12 years!


think this is still a big problem. I first went to the docs about my weight in 2010, I've been through pretty much every service the NHS has to offer and frankly they are not fit for purpose. During the pandemic I ended up having a long conversation with a specialist at Walsgrave who happened to be covering when I went in for some respiratory tests.

Without naming these drugs, which weren't being publicised then, he said he was hopefully we were finally going to move away from "eat less, move more". As he pointed out we've been prescribing that for decades and in people who seek assistance from the NHS regarding weight the failure rate is over 99% He said this simply wouldn't happen with any other treatment, if you trialed a cancer drug with less than 1% success rate it would be binned.

He also said that in all honesty many doctors don't believe what you're telling them if you're not losing weight. Even in the medical community there is an assumption that it is your fault.

He likened it to when doctors endorsed smoking and that in the not to distant future we could see lawsuits against companies promised weight watchers similar to those we saw against tobacco companies.
Click to expand...

There can be some catastrophic side effects
 
Reactions: MalcSB
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,244
Hmm, Banks getting too much assistance again, reduced payouts to victims of e crime reduction of compensation down from circa £400 k to £85 K.
Next only two days to the anniversary, Israel has the right to defend itself,hmm,, fuck around and find out!!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,245
chiefdave said:
Just reading the article, very interesting stuff. Can't help but feel we need to move faster with this. The article states 1 in 8 adults in the US using these type of drugs. Increasingly they are covered by health insurance as the cost over the long term works out far far cheaper.

But here they are near impossible to get on the NHS even after the previous government promised to fast track them to as many people as possible after initial trials produced astonishing results. Just this week it has been reported that this will be pushed out to 1.6m brits. Sounds good right? Problem is that's over 12 years!


think this is still a big problem. I first went to the docs about my weight in 2010, I've been through pretty much every service the NHS has to offer and frankly they are not fit for purpose. During the pandemic I ended up having a long conversation with a specialist at Walsgrave who happened to be covering when I went in for some respiratory tests.

Without naming these drugs, which weren't being publicised then, he said he was hopefully we were finally going to move away from "eat less, move more". As he pointed out we've been prescribing that for decades and in people who seek assistance from the NHS regarding weight the failure rate is over 99% He said this simply wouldn't happen with any other treatment, if you trialed a cancer drug with less than 1% success rate it would be binned.

He also said that in all honesty many doctors don't believe what you're telling them if you're not losing weight. Even in the medical community there is an assumption that it is your fault.

He likened it to when doctors endorsed smoking and that in the not to distant future we could see lawsuits against companies promised weight watchers similar to those we saw against tobacco companies.
Click to expand...

There is no proven long term solution to obesity that sticks. Diets and exercise inevitably don’t stick for the majority. If they were drugs they wouldn’t make it to market because patients hate them so much they stop taking them.

We should be doing Covid vaccine levels of production effort here. Obesity is the biggest drain on the NHS other than old age. Forget sugar taxes and banning burger ads, just provide this shit on the NHS and watch the savings roll in.
 
Reactions: chiefdave

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,246
Mcbean said:
Ed Milliband is pretty thick - his carbon capture 22bn project was undone by a Scientist in less than 30 seconds this morning - he also thinks during the winter everyone will do their shopping in a pushbike -twat !
Click to expand...

a Scientist eh?

You realise it’s less per year promised than the Tories promised last year?
 
Reactions: Mcbean

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,247
What a 49 days!

 
Reactions: MalcSB
B

BodicoteSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,248
MalcSB said:
My wife’s friend has one. Constant range anxiety and huge cost and time added to journey if not charging at home. I bought a diesel.
Click to expand...
Range anxiety? We can charge ours overnight & depending on the temperature we get 210-240 miles. Wife frequently drives to head office in Truro. Stops in Exeter to recharge and then onto Truro no problem.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,249
BodicoteSkyBlue said:
Range anxiety? We can charge ours overnight & depending on the temperature we get 210-240 miles. Wife frequently drives to head office in Truro. Stops in Exeter to recharge and then onto Truro no problem.
Click to expand...

They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,250
shmmeee said:
There is no proven long term solution to obesity that sticks. Diets and exercise inevitably don’t stick for the majority. If they were drugs they wouldn’t make it to market because patients hate them so much they stop taking them.

We should be doing Covid vaccine levels of production effort here. Obesity is the biggest drain on the NHS other than old age. Forget sugar taxes and banning burger ads, just provide this shit on the NHS and watch the savings roll in.
Click to expand...
We shall see about that. All I did was control my calories and live essentially the same way otherwise. So far bucking the trend on weight regain also without needing a lifetime supply of injections.

Though the anti depressants I’ve been given to help me stay asleep might undo it all anyway!
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys and Nuskyblue

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,251
Brighton Sky Blue said:
We shall see about that. All I did was control my calories and live essentially the same way otherwise. So far bucking the trend on weight regain also without needing a lifetime supply of injections.

Though the anti depressants I’ve been given to help me stay asleep might undo it all anyway!
Click to expand...
Friends lost tens of kilos too recently
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,252
Sky Blue Pete said:
Friends lost tens of kilos too recently
Click to expand...
Taking a drug but expecting it to fix everything is the root of the problem. There needs to be very clear communication over how weight loss works and how to maintain it once you’ve reached your goal.

On the other side, maybe as a society stop making it so easy to get obese with big portion sizes, expectations to eat high calorie snacks at work, always finish your plate etc.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,253
shmmeee said:
They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.
Click to expand...
Neither are the levels of depreciation
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,254
shmmeee said:
They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.
Click to expand...

You decided to not have one didn’t you?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,255
shmmeee said:
They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.
Click to expand...
I regularly drive over 200 miles to the New Forest. Takes me 4 hours as it is. Charging infrastructure really poor at the destination so hugely off putting with respect to EV ownership in addition to all the other costs. I do not want to stop en route and queue for broken chargers.
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,256
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Taking a drug but expecting it to fix everything is the root of the problem. There needs to be very clear communication over how weight loss works and how to maintain it once you’ve reached your goal.

On the other side, maybe as a society stop making it so easy to get obese with big portion sizes, expectations to eat high calorie snacks at work, always finish your plate etc.
Click to expand...
Fast food is far too available, certainly compared when I was a kid, and then they constantly try to upsell to large. The calories involved are obscene. There were probably only a couple of kids you would class as obese in my year. Rather than banning smoking in public gardens they should ban McDonalds. I find it incredible that people have them delivered to home!
 
Reactions: Nuskyblue

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,257
MalcSB said:
Fast food is far too available, certainly compared when I was a kid, and then they constantly try to upsell to large. The calories involved are obscene. There were probably only a couple of kids you would class as obese in my year. Rather than banning smoking in public gardens they should ban McDonalds. I find it incredible that people have them delivered to home!
Click to expand...

It's crazy isn't it, and then you have people clogging up the NHS for 15 years plus because they're too stupid to control what they eat.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and MalcSB
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,258
Marty said:
because they're too stupid to control what they eat.
Click to expand...
Arsehole
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,259
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Arsehole
Click to expand...

Hit a nerve? It's simply a fact of calories in v calories out. If you need to clog the NHS for 15 years for someone to tell you to stop eating kebabs 4 nights a week and go for a walk, then you're the problem not the NHS.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,260
Marty said:
Hit a nerve? It's simply a fact of calories in v calories out. If you need to clog the NHS for 15 years for someone to tell you to stop eating kebabs 4 nights a week and go for a walk, then you're the problem not the NHS.
Click to expand...
I will write something much more detailed debunking this shite when I have time.
 
Reactions: chiefdave, Sky Blue Pete and Marty

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,261
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Taking a drug but expecting it to fix everything is the root of the problem. There needs to be very clear communication over how weight loss works and how to maintain it once you’ve reached your goal.

On the other side, maybe as a society stop making it so easy to get obese with big portion sizes, expectations to eat high calorie snacks at work, always finish your plate etc.
Click to expand...

Would you say this for literally any other health condition?
 
Reactions: chiefdave and Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,262
Marty said:
It's crazy isn't it, and then you have people clogging up the NHS for 15 years plus because they're too stupid to control what they eat.
Click to expand...

Have people got significantly more stupid in every developed nation over the last 50 years?
 
Reactions: chiefdave and Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,263
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I will write something much more detailed debunking this shite when I have time.
Click to expand...

In truth if you are fat you eat too much or in my case drink too much
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,264
Grendel said:
In truth if you are fat you eat too much or in my case drink too much
Click to expand...
That is physically what happens but it’s the underlying cause that I dispute.
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,265
Brighton Sky Blue said:
That is physically what happens but it’s the underlying cause that I dispute.
Click to expand...

So I was correct then.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2024
  • #44,266
Marty said:
So I was correct then.
Click to expand...
Correct in saying what physically happens, not in what the cause is. I have lost 6.5 stone in a year, then stopped losing weight despite continuing to eat limited calories.

Still a few stone overweight. Am I too stupid?
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,267
There’s a lot more to weight loss than just calories in & calories out, and if calorie counting is the only method being used to shift weight, then the weight will inevitably return. Anecdotally and scientifically proven.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,268
Ring Of Steel said:
There’s a lot more to weight loss than just calories in & calories out, and if calorie counting is the only method being used to shift weight, then the weight will inevitably return. Anecdotally and scientifically proven.
Click to expand...
Yet, were turning into machines, there's a bright new future,it won't be long before we're down the farm hatching humans!🫣
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,269
Ring Of Steel said:
There’s a lot more to weight loss than just calories in & calories out, and if calorie counting is the only method being used to shift weight, then the weight will inevitably return. Anecdotally and scientifically proven.
Click to expand...

It’s not is it?

the science is pretty conclusive that it’s CICO.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,270
shmmeee said:
It’s not is it?

the science is pretty conclusive that it’s CICO.
Click to expand...
Stop talking in code please!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,271
wingy said:
Stop talking in code please!
Click to expand...

CICO = calories in calories out
 
Reactions: wingy

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,272
shmmeee said:
It’s not is it?

the science is pretty conclusive that it’s CICO.
Click to expand...

No. 100 calories of one food can be be very different to 100 calories of another food. How they’re made up, where they’re coming from- the days of just going by calories went out years ago, our knowledge is much better now. Counting calories is a waste (and a very nasty slog) unless you know how those calories are comprised. Modern & really successful methods don’t really even take calories into account too much. It’s good for mindset & discipline at the start, but once you’ve started & got a little momentum you really needn’t bother to track them.
 
Reactions: robbiekeane, Marty and wingy
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,273
Ring Of Steel said:
No. 100 calories of one food can be be very different to 100 calories of another food. How they’re made up, where they’re coming from- the days of just going by calories went out years ago, our knowledge is much better now. Counting calories is a waste (and a very nasty slog) unless you know how those calories are comprised. Modern & really successful methods don’t really even take calories into account too much. It’s good for mindset & discipline at the start, but once you’ve started & got a little momentum you really needn’t bother to track them.
Click to expand...
So which is eat vegy muesli all-day or something other, detail please if you could?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,274
Ring Of Steel said:
No. 100 calories of one food can be be very different to 100 calories of another food. How they’re made up, where they’re coming from- the days of just going by calories went out years ago, our knowledge is much better now. Counting calories is a waste (and a very nasty slog) unless you know how those calories are comprised. Modern & really successful methods don’t really even take calories into account too much. It’s good for mindset & discipline at the start, but once you’ve started & got a little momentum you really needn’t bother to track them.
Click to expand...

Can you post a single peer reviewed paper that backs up this belief?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2024
  • #44,275
In fact we know it’s CICO precisely because Ozempic works and that stops you overeating.
 
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 1263
  • 1264
  • 1265
  • 1266
  • 1267
  • …
  • 1495
Next
First Prev 1265 of 1495 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • chiefdave9 minutes ago
  • ... and 4 more.
  • Total: 19 (members: 5, guests: 14)
    Share:
    Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email
    • Home
    • Forums
    • General Discussion
    • Off Topic Chat
    • Default Style
    • Contact us
    • Terms and rules
    • Privacy policy
    • Help
    • Home
    Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2021 XenForo Ltd.
    Menu
    Log in

    Register

    • Home
    • Forums
      • New posts
      • Search forums
    • What's new
      • New posts
      • Latest activity
    • Members
      • Current visitors
    • Donate to the Season Ticket Fund
    X

    Privacy & Transparency

    We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

    • Personalized ads and content
    • Content measurement and audience insights

    Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

    X

    Privacy & Transparency

    We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

    • Personalized ads and content
    • Content measurement and audience insights

    Do you accept cookies and these technologies?