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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,891
Mucca Mad Boys said:
One of the many reasons our inflation is stickier than our counterparts is our public spending and debt.
Click to expand...
Not sure that’s remotely true. If you take the US out of the equation our public spending as a percentage of GDP is below the majority of the western world, especially Europe. Same for debt as a percentage of GDP including the US this time.
 
Reactions: wingy

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,892
UK has run a budget deficit for 23 consecutive years with inflation generally running at round the 2% target more the majority of those. Mucca's point is just his usual tactic of repeating myths printed by the right wing media. If deficits and debt drive inflation, why was it not the case for the preceding two decades?
 
Reactions: wingy

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,893
skybluetony176 said:
Not sure that’s remotely true. If you take the US out of the equation our public spending as a percentage of GDP is below the majority of the western world, especially Europe. Same for debt as a percentage of GDP including the US this time.
Click to expand...

Spending as a % of GDP is not the same thing as debt:GDP ratio.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,894
fernandopartridge said:
UK has run a budget deficit for 23 consecutive years with inflation generally running at round the 2% target more the majority of those. Mucca's point is just his usual tactic of repeating myths printed by the right wing media. If deficits and debt drive inflation, why was it not the case for the preceding two decades?
Click to expand...
The lender's had to do a lot of creeping having squandered in the past with their greed ?
Robert Peston did the damage the last and the industry of course certainly over here anyway!IMO
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,895
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Spending as a % of GDP is not the same thing as debt:GDP ratio.
Click to expand...
Which is why I mentioned debt separately and it’s the same story. Our debt as a percentage of GDP is lower than the majority of western countries including the US. Debt and spending is not what drove inflation in UK more than other countries, especially in Europe. The trade barriers we placed between our most natural and nearest trading partners had more effect, especially true of food inflation. Couple that with the energy price cap not being fit for purpose driving inflation and profits for privately owned companies ahead of all else. Then add Truss into the mix (still can’t believe she was allowed anywhere near government let alone the top seat). We were fucked over by flawed ideology. Government spending and debt had very little to zero to do with it. FP is right, the right wing press want you to believe otherwise because the truth is it’s their ideology and the political class they promote that’s to blame.
 

Como

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,896
Sir Keir Starmer has revealed a more than £20,000 donation he took from Labour donor Lord Alli was to help his son study for his GCSEs during the election. The revelation comes with the prime minister in New York for a UN summit, while his party's conference concludes in Liverpool.
 
Reactions: Nick and MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,897
Como said:
Sir Keir Starmer has revealed a more than £20,000 donation he took from Labour donor Lord Alli was to help his son study for his GCSEs during the election. The revelation comes with the prime minister in New York for a UN summit, while his party's conference concludes in Liverpool.
Click to expand...
Service to self?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,898
Labour's case for cutting the WFP is all over the place, this is a welfare minister.

The chancellor has made decisions which need to be made to sort out the very serious problems in the government finances which we’ve been left with.

And I’m hoping that, over time, this measure will actually reduce pensioner poverty by increasing the take-up of pension credit.

We have seen quite a big boost in the number of people applying for pension credit over the last few weeks, and I think that is likely to continue.
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,899
This is beyond belief

Keir Starmer accepted £20,000 of accommodation to help his son study for GCSEs

The prime minister said Lord Alli had provided him somewhere that his son could study ‘peacefully’
www.independent.co.uk
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys and MalcSB

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,900
MalcSB said:

Prison isn’t working for women, Labour says, as it unveils plans for alternatives

Shabana Mahmood tells conference she wants more help in community for offenders and fewer cases going to court
www.theguardian.com

I wonder how this will be abused.

View attachment 38628
Click to expand...
Think you have to ask permission before you download images of Tinder dates mate
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and MalcSB

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,901
Grendel said:
This is beyond belief

Keir Starmer accepted £20,000 of accommodation to help his son study for GCSEs

The prime minister said Lord Alli had provided him somewhere that his son could study ‘peacefully’
www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...

Happy coincidence that the donation coincided with an emergent need for accommodation to revise for GCSEs, lovely when stuff works out
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,902
Mucca Mad Boys said:
In isolation, no of course not. That wasn’t the point and you know full well it wasn’t.

It is clear that you don’t really see a limit to government spending so every issue be it the NHS, public sector pay rises, pensions, winter fuel allowance, education, free school meals can be done away with just more government spending.
Click to expand...
Infinite weapons to Ukraine cost a bit more than some Cornflakes and some fuel for the pensioners.

It’s funny what’s deemed a priority.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,903
Grendel said:
This is beyond belief

Keir Starmer accepted £20,000 of accommodation to help his son study for GCSEs

The prime minister said Lord Alli had provided him somewhere that his son could study ‘peacefully’
www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...
He’s one of the working people, dontcha know, his father was a tool maker.
 
Reactions: Nick and wingy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,904
MalcSB said:
He’s one of the working people, dontcha know, his father was a tool maker.
Click to expand...
Explains how Keir was made
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys and wingy
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,905
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Explains how Keir was made
Click to expand...
Tungsten or steel or something harder, not in the sexual sense either!
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,906
fernandopartridge said:
UK has run a budget deficit for 23 consecutive years with inflation generally running at round the 2% target more the majority of those. Mucca's point is just his usual tactic of repeating myths printed by the right wing media. If deficits and debt drive inflation, why was it not the case for the preceding two decades?
Click to expand...
So thus Truss then, for a different reason though?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,907
fernandopartridge said:
UK has run a budget deficit for 23 consecutive years with inflation generally running at round the 2% target more the majority of those. Mucca's point is just his usual tactic of repeating myths printed by the right wing media. If deficits and debt drive inflation, why was it not the case for the preceding two decades?
Click to expand...
fernandopartridge said:
Explain how public debt fuels inflation.
Click to expand...
It’s ok to disagree but to deride anything you don’t like as ‘myths’ and ‘right wing’ is just not discussing a topic in good faith.

I’ve not said that increases in public spending will definitely always cause inflation. These things are contextual and 2010 to 2024 was characterised by a government committed to reducing a deficit that had been reduced from the state Labour had left in 2010.

Anyway, onto the question you posed. In short, government spending contributes to aggregate demand in the economy which will risk inflation. There are two examples that come to mind. 1) the government’s COVID response for businesses as well as individuals (along with debt holidays etc). The economy was overheating at time it should’ve slowed. 2) Quantative Easing, the headline inflation rate (CPI) remained quite low between 2010-2020, the increase of assets prices have been quite staggering. Specifically, in housing where the costs to buy a mouse and maintain a mortgage has increased significantly over that period too. Which is an outlier considering growth has slowed.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,908
Ian1779 said:
Infinite weapons to Ukraine cost a bit more than some Cornflakes and some fuel for the pensioners.

It’s funny what’s deemed a priority.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you’ve got some buyers remorse Ian?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,909
Grendel said:
This is beyond belief

Keir Starmer accepted £20,000 of accommodation to help his son study for GCSEs

The prime minister said Lord Alli had provided him somewhere that his son could study ‘peacefully’
www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...
So he moved in to the flat so that his son’s study for GCSE would not be disrupted by an unexpected election.

Lets hope he shows the same consideration to others and doesn’t introduce VAT on private education part way through an academic year causing potential catastrophic disruption for some.

Disclaimer- I did not have a private education, nor did my parents, sibling or children. This is not service to self - unlike Starmer.
 
Reactions: wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,910
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Explains how Keir was made
Click to expand...
Presumably if his son goes in to politics, he can claim with justification that his father was a tool.
 
Reactions: Marty, wingy and Mucca Mad Boys

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,911
wingy said:
Tungsten or steel or something harder, not in the sexual sense either!
Click to expand...
Something that appears to be one thing whilst being something entirely different. Iron pyrite - fools gold - perhaps.
 
Reactions: wingy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,912
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It sounds like you’ve got some buyers remorse Ian?
Click to expand...
Not if you’ve been paying attention.
 
Reactions: wingy and Brighton Sky Blue

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,913
MalcSB said:
Well, the winter fuel allowance will change things for many pensioners. Let’s hope for a warm winter.
Click to expand...


Some Say Keir Starmer Doesn't Have a Plan.

As Baldrick Says in Blackadder, "I Have a Cunning Plan" Let the Pensioner's Freeze to Death so the Government Can Save Money on the State Pension.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,914
Mucca Mad Boys said:
In isolation, no of course not. That wasn’t the point and you know full well it wasn’t.

It is clear that you don’t really see a limit to government spending so every issue be it the NHS, public sector pay rises, pensions, winter fuel allowance, education, free school meals can be done away with just more government spending.
Click to expand...

Some of that stuff costs more to cut than not. Our problem is not looking productive in the future thanks to this kind of thinking more than too much debt meaning we won’t be able to borrow.

Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s ok to disagree but to deride anything you don’t like as ‘myths’ and ‘right wing’ is just not discussing a topic in good faith.

I’ve not said that increases in public spending will definitely always cause inflation. These things are contextual and 2010 to 2024 was characterised by a government committed to reducing a deficit that had been reduced from the state Labour had left in 2010.

Anyway, onto the question you posed. In short, government spending contributes to aggregate demand in the economy which will risk inflation. There are two examples that come to mind. 1) the government’s COVID response for businesses as well as individuals (along with debt holidays etc). The economy was overheating at time it should’ve slowed. 2) Quantative Easing, the headline inflation rate (CPI) remained quite low between 2010-2020, the increase of assets prices have been quite staggering. Specifically, in housing where the costs to buy a mouse and maintain a mortgage has increased significantly over that period too. Which is an outlier considering growth has slowed.
Click to expand...

Covid inflation was supply chain and energy based, house price inflation is down to supply restriction.

You haven’t answered his basic question which is why if this is such a cast iron law of economics we don’t see it in the data at all.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,915


Such inflation 2010-2020, much asset appreciation.
 
Reactions: wingy and fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,916
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s ok to disagree but to deride anything you don’t like as ‘myths’ and ‘right wing’ is just not discussing a topic in good faith.

I’ve not said that increases in public spending will definitely always cause inflation. These things are contextual and 2010 to 2024 was characterised by a government committed to reducing a deficit that had been reduced from the state Labour had left in 2010.

Anyway, onto the question you posed. In short, government spending contributes to aggregate demand in the economy which will risk inflation. There are two examples that come to mind. 1) the government’s COVID response for businesses as well as individuals (along with debt holidays etc). The economy was overheating at time it should’ve slowed. 2) Quantative Easing, the headline inflation rate (CPI) remained quite low between 2010-2020, the increase of assets prices have been quite staggering. Specifically, in housing where the costs to buy a mouse and maintain a mortgage has increased significantly over that period too. Which is an outlier considering growth has slowed.
Click to expand...

1. The government debt was not increased by the covid spending 99.5% of government Covid debt has been matched by so called Bank of England ‘money printing’

2. The increase in house prices from 2010-2020 was slower than the a lot of the prior 20 years, before QE was even a thing.

 
Reactions: wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,917
COVKIDSNEVERQUIT said:
Some Say Keir Starmer Doesn't Have a Plan.

As Baldrick Says in Blackadder, "I Have a Cunning Plan" Let the Pensioner's Freeze to Death so the Government Can Save Money on the State Pension.
Click to expand...
As @fernandopartridge suggested, there will be some beds blocked in the NHS over winter.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,918
Ian1779 said:
Not if you’ve been paying attention.
Click to expand...
I’ll be honest, I haven’t been paying close attention to your mood on the new government.
shmmeee said:
Some of that stuff costs more to cut than not. Our problem is not looking productive in the future thanks to this kind of thinking more than too much debt meaning we won’t be able to borrow.



Covid inflation was supply chain and energy based, house price inflation is down to supply restriction.

You haven’t answered his basic question which is why if this is such a cast iron law of economics we don’t see it in the data at all.
Click to expand...
There is no cast iron economic laws because if there was there’d be no need for politics. Keynesians believe that increasing aggregate demand won’t cause inflation, monetarists believe the exact opposite in the long run.

My only point, starting off, was the increased public spending contributed (i.e. one of many factors) to our stickier inflation.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,919
Mucca Mad Boys said:
I’ll be honest, I haven’t been paying close attention to your mood on the new government.

There is no cast iron economic laws because if there was there’d be no need for politics. Keynesians believe that increasing aggregate demand won’t cause inflation, monetarists believe the exact opposite in the long run.

My only point, starting off, was the increased public spending contributed (i.e. one of many factors) to our stickier inflation.
Click to expand...

There is such a thing as truth and there is none in the idea advanced economies suffer inflation from govt debt. See: High debt levels can hinder the fight against inflation.


 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2024
  • #43,920
Interesting to see James O’Brien performing mental gymnastics to justify all the private donations to Labour politicians. Why is it so hard to call a spade a spade?
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2024
  • #43,921
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Interesting to see James O’Brien performing mental gymnastics to justify all the private donations to Labour politicians. Why is it so hard to call a spade a spade?
Click to expand...

It’s bollocks if we’re honest.

The YouTube donation and change to the DST, genuinely concerning. £4m from hedge fund, less concerning but still likely to be influencing policy.

Instead people are going after a guy lending money to his sisters best mate and offering out his flat to a 16 year old.

It’s so very obviously party political because they’re staying away from the actual issues of money in politics and pretending having a rich mate is the problem. And that’s because if they actually went after large cash donations the Tories would be fucked.

No. People don’t want taxpayer funded political parties. They don’t want people to play by the rules. It’s just kicking Labour cos it’s Labour.

There: a spade.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2024
  • #43,922
shmmeee said:
It’s bollocks if we’re honest.

The YouTube donation and change to the DST, genuinely concerning. £4m from hedge fund, less concerning but still likely to be influencing policy.

Instead people are going after a guy lending money to his sisters best mate and offering out his flat to a 16 year old.

It’s so very obviously party political because they’re staying away from the actual issues of money in politics and pretending having a rich mate is the problem. And that’s because if they actually went after large cash donations the Tories would be fucked.

No. People don’t want taxpayer funded political parties. They don’t want people to play by the rules. It’s just kicking Labour cos it’s Labour.

There: a spade.
Click to expand...
The forum’s answer to Wes Streeting
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and MalcSB

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2024
  • #43,923
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Interesting to see James O’Brien performing mental gymnastics to justify all the private donations to Labour politicians. Why is it so hard to call a spade a spade?
Click to expand...

Because he's a wanker.
 

Sbarcher

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2024
  • #43,924

Keir Starmer Covid broadcast urging work from home came from donor’s £18m penthouse

Labour leader appeared to be speaking from his own house but was instead in Lord Alli’s flat
www.telegraph.co.uk

This may be behind a paywall.
Has Starmer requesting people stay/work from home if possible when he's in Lord Ali's apartment done up with his family photos and cards to appear he is at his home. Bit of a con really.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 26, 2024
  • #43,925
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The forum’s answer to Wes Streeting
Click to expand...

Ah yes Wea Streeting who says “why aren’t you looking at policy that changed rather than hassling a GCSE student?”

You’ve been on autopilot since Corbyn lost. Sad to see.
 
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