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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (44 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,821
Grendel said:
Perhaps Denmarks approach to immigration has cheered the locals up
Click to expand...
It’s got more to do with the good standard of work life balance that Denmark is famous for and a functioning NHS. Their approach to immigration is no different to ours really, in fact they’ve just passed a new act in parliament to make it easier for immigrants to work by rescinding the need for a Danish bank account and simplifying the process for a work permit.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,822
skybluetony176 said:
It’s got more to do with the good standard of work life balance that Denmark is famous for and a functioning NHS. Their approach to immigration is no different to ours really, in fact they’ve just passed a new act in parliament to make it easier for immigrants to work by rescinding the need for a Danish bank account and simplifying the process for a work permit.
Click to expand...

Mmmmm

Denmark’s tough stance on migrants plays well at home. In Brussels, it could be a different story.

Mette Frederiksen must convince her European Social Democrats colleagues her domestic track record is a good fit for a top job in Brussels.
www.politico.eu
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,823
skybluetony176 said:
It’s got more to do with the good standard of work life balance that Denmark is famous for and a functioning NHS. Their approach to immigration is no different to ours really, in fact they’ve just passed a new act in parliament to make it easier for immigrants to work by rescinding the need for a Danish bank account and simplifying the process for a work
Click to expand...


skybluetony176 said:
Why the need to rescind the requirement for a bank account,is it a cash in hand free for all or something other?
Click to expand...
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,824
Grendel said:
Mmmmm

Denmark’s tough stance on migrants plays well at home. In Brussels, it could be a different story.

Mette Frederiksen must convince her European Social Democrats colleagues her domestic track record is a good fit for a top job in Brussels.
www.politico.eu
Click to expand...
So like I said, not that different to ours. Thanks for the link confirming that.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,825
skybluetony176 said:
So like I said, not that different to ours. Thanks for the link confirming that.
Click to expand...

Have we revoked Syrian refugee permits as an example?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,826
Grendel said:
Have we revoked Syrian refugee permits as an example?
Click to expand...
I guess we've got to process them first, what's the reason for theirs?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,827
Grendel said:
Have we revoked Syrian refugee permits as an example?
Click to expand...

Home Office tells asylum seeker he can return to Syria safely

Man, 25, fears he will be killed after fleeing forcible conscription into Bashar al-Assad’s army in 2017
amp.theguardian.com
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,828
wingy said:
I guess we've got to process them first, what's the reason for theirs?
Click to expand...
The first thing is they haven’t rescinded every Syrian refugee status. I think it equates to about 100. The reason is because the part of Syria they’re from Denmark has deemed safe to return too. As we have in some cases.

It may also be the case that Denmark hasn’t had a government who created a deliberate backlog for political positioning of causing a problem so they can make out they’re the only ones who can deal with it. If we had been processing asylum claims for the last 5 years or so as we should have been we’d probably be returning people in numbers back to Syria (amongst other countries) for the same reason.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,829
MalcSB said:
It’s the principle that millionaires children would qualify when they could, according to some on here, surely afford to pay for it themselves. And isn’t yet another state intervention abrogating parents of their responibility?
Click to expand...

you truly have no clue. Older generations create misery & hardship for those that follow, then try to stop kids getting fed.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,830
Starmers conferance keynote is going well, this definitely won't be the only part anyone shares and remembers

 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Mucca Mad Boys, wingy and 1 other person

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,831
Ring Of Steel said:
you truly have no clue. Older generations create misery & hardship for those that follow, then try to stop kids getting fed.
Click to expand...
Who is trying to stop kids getting fed?

How have boomers created misery and hardship for those following?

Boomers will all be dead soon enough. Who will you blame for your woes then?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,832
chiefdave said:
Starmers conferance keynote is going well, this definitely won't be the only part anyone shares and remembers

Click to expand...
What an utter twat.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,833
chiefdave said:

Getting shorter and going hungrier: how children in the UK live today

Children are becoming poorer in the UK – more so than in other countries.
uk.news.yahoo.com
Click to expand...
What’s the explanation for the shorter American kids?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,834
Ring Of Steel said:
you truly have no clue. Older generations create misery & hardship for those that follow, then try to stop kids getting fed.
Click to expand...
How?

I don't get it, I had a child, I go to work and get paid money to feed, clothe, bring her up. Id work cleaning bogs in McDonald's if I had to to be able to do this.

I couldn't afford 5 children and to be fair probably couldn't afford 3 and be able to give them a comfortable life.

I do like that the breakfast clubs mean that people who work can drop kids off so it takes away an excuse that people can't work because of the school run. It means people can start work at 9 still without the stress of getting the kids to school.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,835
shmmeee said:
FSM - £1bn/year for universality

The policy menu for school lunches: options and trade-offs in expanding free school meals in England | Institute for Fiscal Studies

The expansion of free school meals has been frequently discussed. IFS researchers consider the costs and benefits of different options.
ifs.org.uk

Apologies seems my initial source was out by 0.1bn its £1.5bn for universal WFP:

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/changes-to-winter-fuel-payments-the-social-fund-winter-fuel-payment-regulations-2024/
Click to expand...
It’s £1bn per year for universality for primary school children only, the paper says £2.5bn per year for all pupils, trebling existing spending meaning universal wfp would be 60% of the cost.

What about the £22bn black hole?

Perhaps Starmer’s return of the sausages will bring the cost down.
 
Last edited: Sep 24, 2024
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys and Grendel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,836
Nick said:
How?

I don't get it, I had a child, I go to work and get paid money to feed, clothe, bring her up. Id work cleaning bogs in McDonald's if I had to to be able to do this.

I couldn't afford 5 children for example.

I do like that the breakfast clubs mean that people who work can drop kids off so it takes away an excuse that people can't work because of the school run. It means people can start work at 9 still without the stress of getting the kids to school.
Click to expand...

The comments were directed at Malc, who likes to talk about the lovely benefits he enjoys, while pouring scorn on people who suffer with depression and anxiety, and questioning whether meals should be provided for children or whether parents should be asked to pay, then suggesting that it’s absolving people of parental responsibility. While at the same time knowing full well (but refusing to acknowledge) the hardship that has been created for parents, and the sheer lengths that some have to go to in order to make ends meet.

I’m clueless about politics so have no idea who to ‘blame’, but my view is that the mammoth inequality & ‘service to self’ culture that’s been created over the last few decades is horrible.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,837
Ring Of Steel said:
The comments were directed at Malc, who likes to talk about the lovely benefits he enjoys, while pouring scorn on people who suffer with depression and anxiety, and questioning whether meals should be provided for children or whether parents should be asked to pay, then suggesting that it’s absolving people of parental responsibility. While at the same time knowing full well (but refusing to acknowledge) the hardship that has been created for parents, and the sheer lengths that some have to go to in order to make ends meet.

I’m clueless about politics so have no idea who to ‘blame’, but my view is that the mammoth inequality & ‘service to self’ culture that’s been created over the last few decades is horrible.
Click to expand...
What benefits have I talked about enjoying? I have been made redundant three times and yet never claimed unemployment benefit. I was extemely rarely off sick despite working in a stressful job and have never claimed sickness benefits. I have hardly made use of the NHS. The only state benefit I receive is the state pension, having contributed to NI for 45 years and paid a fortune in income tax for 50 years and counting.

I do think that today’s woke culture and the need for trigger warnings before fictional programmes indicates a general lack of mental robustness and resilience. I do recognise that most people off sick for whatever reason are genuine, but I do think that the relatively small percentage I suggested might return to work ( and I suspect Starmer has similar thoughts) is not entirely unreasonable.

Have parents whose children turn up not potty trained or knowing how to clean their teeth fulfilled their responsibility? I would suggest not. Should children be fed, of course they should. Is it ultimately the states responsibility to do so, I think not.

Who has created the hardships you refer to? Not the boomers but successive governments both Labour and Tory.
 
Last edited: Sep 24, 2024

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,838
chiefdave said:
Starmers conferance keynote is going well, this definitely won't be the only part anyone shares and remembers

Click to expand...

It’s been a pretty shambolic start for the government to be honest. Even Rachel Reeves has had to dial down some of the rhetoric about the state of public finances because it’s almost talking the country into recession by decreasing confidence.

Sir John Curtice (an expert pollster) has already painted a pretty bleak picture for Labour’s future election chances.
 

Sbarcher

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,839
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s been a pretty shambolic start for the government to be honest. Even Rachel Reeves has had to dial down some of the rhetoric about the state of public finances because it’s almost talking the country into recession by decreasing confidence.

Sir John Curtice (an expert pollster) has already painted a pretty bleak picture for Labour’s future election chances.
Click to expand...
Can’t trust Reeves. She can’t clap properly.
 
Reactions: wingy

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,840
Sbarcher said:
Can’t trust Reeves. She can’t clap properly.
Click to expand...
The first mistake anyone can make is to put their trust or faith in any politician.

The whole Labour ‘donor-gate’ wouldn’t be as big issue had they not played ‘holier than thou’ in Opposition. Specifically, just how hard Starmer went in on Boris Johnson for ‘wallpaper-gate’.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,841
Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s been a pretty shambolic start for the government to be honest. Even Rachel Reeves has had to dial down some of the rhetoric about the state of public finances because it’s almost talking the country into recession by decreasing confidence.

Sir John Curtice (an expert pollster) has already painted a pretty bleak picture for Labour’s future election chances.
Click to expand...
Starmer’s approval rating is currently lower than Sunak’s.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,842
MalcSB said:
Starmer’s approval rating is currently lower than Sunak’s.
Click to expand...

Yep, buyers remorse has definitely started to kick in. That’s quite a statement given just how unpopular the Tory government was and in hindsight, how stupid it was for an early election.

It’s not out of the realms of possibility for Reform to have a breakthrough in the Red Wall at by-elections. Labour had some close calls without the unpopularity of being in government.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,843
MalcSB said:
What benefits have I talked about enjoying? I have been made redundant three times and yet never claimed unemployment benefit. I was extemely rarely off sick despite working in a stressful job and have never claimed sickness benefits. I have hardly made use of the NHS. The only state benefit I receive is the state pension, having contributed to NI for 45 years and paid a fortune in income tax for 60years and counting.

I do think that today’s woke culture and the need for trigger warnings before fictional programmes indicates a general lack of mental robustness and resilience. I do recognise that most people off sick for whatever reason are genuine, but I do think that the relatively small percentage I suggested might return to work ( and I suspect Starmer has similar thoughts) is not entirely unreasonable.

Have parents whose children turn up not potty trained or knowing how to clean their teeth fulfilled their responsibility? I would suggest not. Should children be fed, of course they should. Is it ultimately the states responsibility to do so, I think not.

Who has created the hardships you refer to? Not the boomers but successive governments both Labour and Tory.
Click to expand...

I would humbly invite you to not talk about things you clearly don’t understand. Linking ‘woke culture’ to depression and anxiety and a ‘lack of resilience’ is beyond insulting. But sadly quite typical of people of a certain vintage.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,844
MalcSB said:
What benefits have I talked about enjoying? I have been made redundant three times and yet never claimed unemployment benefit. I was extemely rarely off sick despite working in a stressful job and have never claimed sickness benefits. I have hardly made use of the NHS. The only state benefit I receive is the state pension, having contributed to NI for 45 years and paid a fortune in income tax for 50 years and counting.

I do think that today’s woke culture and the need for trigger warnings before fictional programmes indicates a general lack of mental robustness and resilience. I do recognise that most people off sick for whatever reason are genuine, but I do think that the relatively small percentage I suggested might return to work ( and I suspect Starmer has similar thoughts) is not entirely unreasonable.

Have parents whose children turn up not potty trained or knowing how to clean their teeth fulfilled their responsibility? I would suggest not. Should children be fed, of course they should. Is it ultimately the states responsibility to do so, I think not.

Who has created the hardships you refer to? Not the boomers but successive governments both Labour and Tory.
Click to expand...
Nobody has said the state should be feeding every meal for every child for every day of the year. There are so many benefits of a free school meal programme beyond just children not being hungry or reliant on crap for a small cost in the grand scheme of the budget.

We could be callous and say that the pensioners should have saved more money in their working lives to prepare for retirement. That would be a dick move, so is finding an excuse not to do something that we know helps with educational outcomes.

FSM is a hand up, not a hand out.
 
Reactions: Ring Of Steel and Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,845
Ring Of Steel said:
I would humbly invite you to not talk about things you clearly don’t understand. Linking ‘woke culture’ to depression and anxiety and a ‘lack of resilience’ is beyond insulting. But sadly quite typical of people of a certain vintage.
Click to expand...
I would humbly invite you to take responsibility for your own problems and don’t blame a previous generation.
 
Reactions: Mucca Mad Boys and Ring Of Steel

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,846
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Nobody has said the state should be feeding every meal for every child for every day of the year. There are so many benefits of a free school meal programme beyond just children not being hungry or reliant on crap for a small cost in the grand scheme of the budget.

We could be callous and say that the pensioners should have saved more money in their working lives to prepare for retirement. That would be a dick move, so is finding an excuse not to do something that we know helps with educational outcomes.

FSM is a hand up, not a hand out.
Click to expand...
TBH it’s the way they went about the winter fuel allowance that has pissed me off. Frankly, I don’t need it although it was nice to have.

Had they addressed it in the budget, with a proper impact assessment, made clear it was a choice acknowledging it flew in the face of what they were saying pre election, introduced the change next financial year allowing those pensioners who were never in a position to save more money for their retirement during their working lives time to adjust and/ or make the necessary applications for additional qualifying benefits, not tried to blame it on a mythical £22bn black hole and not suggested that keeping it would have crashed the economy - then I wouldn’t have been so angry. Told the truth and stood accountable in other words.

In my view they should stop the £10 Christmas payment and have a double lock for pensions - inflation or average.pay increase would be entirely reasonable (i.e, drop the minimum 2.5%).
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,847
MalcSB said:
TBH it’s the way they went about the winter fuel allowance that has pissed me off. Frankly, I don’t need it although it was nice to have.

Had they addressed it in the budget, with a proper impact assessment, made clear it was a choice acknowledging it flew in the face of what they were saying pre election, introduced the change next financial year allowing those pensioners who were never in a position to save more money for their retirement during their working lives time to adjust and/ or make the necessary applications for additional qualifying benefits, not tried to blame it on a mythical £22bn black hole and not suggested that keeping it would have crashed the economy - then I wouldn’t have been so angry. Told the truth and stood accountable in other words.
Click to expand...
You won’t see me disagreeing with this. I’m just trying to get you to see the argument for universal FSM which is a high impact, low cost idea.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,848
Brighton Sky Blue said:
You won’t see me disagreeing with this. I’m just trying to get you to see the argument for universal FSM which is a high impact, low cost idea.
Click to expand...
I just don’t see £2.5bn as low cost, and that’s excluding the breakfast clubs. I suppose we will see how it will be funded in the budget, but if the £22bn black hole is real (ha ha)and the wfp not affordable, how can the fsm be?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,849
MalcSB said:
TBH it’s the way they went about the winter fuel allowance that has pissed me off. Frankly, I don’t need it although it was nice to have.

Had they addressed it in the budget, with a proper impact assessment, made clear it was a choice acknowledging it flew in the face of what they were saying pre election, introduced the change next financial year allowing those pensioners who were never in a position to save more money for their retirement during their working lives time to adjust and/ or make the necessary applications for additional qualifying benefits, not tried to blame it on a mythical £22bn black hole and not suggested that keeping it would have crashed the economy - then I wouldn’t have been so angry. Told the truth and stood accountable in other words.

In my view they should stop the £10 Christmas payment and have a double lock for pensions - inflation or average.pay increase would be entirely reasonable (i.e, drop the minimum 2.5%).
Click to expand...

Additionally, the optics is terrible. They stated just how bad public finances were, chose a universal benefit that cost £1bn (or so) but in the same breath ‘pay off’ their trade union masters with inflation busting pay rises worth 4 or 5 times that. Then, targeting pensioners is the least popular group to go after because they’ve done the responsible thing to save over years and have earned their retirement.

There is a case for removing the winter fuel allowance but as you say, it was abrupt without an impact assessment. A better way would’ve been to combine the benefit with pension credit or something similar to soften the blow in the short term.

Apparently, briefings in the press suggest that it was a recommendation from the treasury that Reeves just went along with. Just how poor is that political judgement?!
 
Reactions: MalcSB
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,850
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Additionally, the optics is terrible. They stated just how bad public finances were, chose a universal benefit that cost £1bn (or so) but in the same breath ‘pay off’ their trade union masters with inflation busting pay rises worth 4 or 5 times that. Then, targeting pensioners is the least popular group to go after because they’ve done the responsible thing to save over years and have earned their retirement.

There is a case for removing the winter fuel allowance but as you say, it was abrupt without an impact assessment. A better way would’ve been to combine the benefit with pension credit or something similar to soften the blow in the short term.

Apparently, briefings in the press suggest that it was a recommendation from the treasury that Reeves just went along with. Just how poor is that political judgement?!
Click to expand...
Or an excuse for her/him for convenience?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,851
wingy said:
Or an excuse for her/him for convenience?
Click to expand...
An excuse for Rachel Reeves? Nah, it’s worse than that. In terms of the economy, she is about as establishment as you can get (literally an ex-banker) and won’t really challenge the orthodoxy at the treasury (I.e. higher public spending and increasingly higher or new taxes) or have any original ideas.
 

The Reverend Skyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,852
What I do like about Starmer , and as a Manager at National Grid, is his total commitment that to have energy security and cheaper electricity we need to upgrade our 60 year old 400/275 kV voltage transmission system, which will include new circuits/pylons, come what may
All the new offshore wind/solar and nuclear generation cant be transmitted on existing infrastructure so he knows only new circuits can do this , which will upset a lot of people but we can’t do it any other way. We will do a lot of new circuits offshore but some have to be done onshore and he knows that and he’s fully committed to it
I’m not a labour voter and really dislike this donor shite regarding clothes etc, but he’s doing OK in my book, so far
 
Reactions: wingy
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2024
  • #43,853
The Reverend Skyblue said:
What I do like about Starmer , and as a Manager at National Grid, is his total commitment that to have energy security and cheaper electricity we need to upgrade our 60 year old 400/275 kV voltage transmission system, which will include new circuits/pylons, come what may
All the new offshore wind/solar and nuclear generation cant be transmitted on existing infrastructure so he knows only new circuits can do this , which will upset a lot of people but we can’t do it any other way. We will do a lot of new circuits offshore but some have to be done onshore and he knows that and he’s fully committed to it
I’m not a labour voter and really dislike this donor shite regarding clothes etc, but he’s doing OK in my book, so far
Click to expand...
You've done well mate I remember you retraining for that industry a while back?
 
Reactions: The Reverend Skyblue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,854
MalcSB said:
I just don’t see £2.5bn as low cost, and that’s excluding the breakfast clubs. I suppose we will see how it will be funded in the budget, but if the £22bn black hole is real (ha ha)and the wfp not affordable, how can the fsm be?
Click to expand...
It would amount to under 0.25% of government spending.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 25, 2024
  • #43,855
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It would amount to under 0.25% of government spending.
Click to expand...
And the winter fuel payment was half that and yet keeping it would have crashed the economy.
 
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