Do you want to discuss boring politics? (33 Viewers)

chiefdave · Sep 21, 2024

MalcSB said:
There’s 2.8 million long term “sick” for a start,

Not sure you get a huge amount of money if you’re on the sick. But irrespective of that you need to look at the causes and how you can help people back into work. Most people do actually want to work and aren’t on the sick for an easy life.

Can’t see that number getting much lower tbh when you look at the health profile of the younger generation. Measurable signs of a large number of kids today being malnourished for example, that’s not going to lead to a strong and healthy workforce in 15-20 years.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2024

fatso said:
I'm a working person, 40+ years in Engineering, and the Labour party isn't my fucking party. They've never represented the working class, it's a fucking myth.
Bunch of useless looney cunts all of them.

(No better than the Tory cunts)

I mean this is clearly not true.

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

wingy said:
They Will be the future generations though, not their qualities?

I think 25 year olds exist and are therefore the current generation.

Sky Blue Pete · Sep 21, 2024

MalcSB said:
Don’t you think that someone like my example 85 year old who worked hard all their life and, alongside her dead husband, paid taxes and NI and thus making a full contribution to society with an expectation and promise of support in their later life deserve more consideration than a feckless and jobless 24 year old with 5 children by as many different mothers. Why should my fucking taxes support lead-swinging arseholes like that.

This generational divide seems unprecedented to me, I would advise to be careful what you wish for. If you are lucky, you too will get old.

I am old lol

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

chiefdave said:
Not sure you get a huge amount of money if you’re on the sick. But irrespective of that you need to look at the causes and how you can help people back into work. Most people do actually want to work and aren’t on the sick for an easy life.

Can’t see that number getting much lower tbh when you look at the health profile of the younger generation. Measurable signs of a large number of kids today being malnourished for example, that’s not going to lead to a strong and healthy workforce in 15-20 years.

And yet obesity is so prevalent.

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

Sky Blue Pete said:
I am old lol

Depends by what definition. I doubt you are 85 or even my age.

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
Pensioners aren’t working people. You’re literally complaining the party of working people is giving pay rises to working people and not benefits rises.

Feel pensioners should get more benefits by all means. But let’s not pretend people working hard don’t deserve pay rises and we should be giving millionaires more benefits.

I thought Labour was the party of the working class. Most pensioners fall in to that category.
The jobless by definition aren’t working people, so the Labour Party should say “fuck you” as they are saying to pensioners wrt winter fuel allowance.

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
If you’ve got millions in assets you’re a millionaire. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos don’t have their money in cash either.

I’m sorry but the state shouldn’t be paying you to stay in a home you can’t afford during a housing crisis.

I am prepared to wager (small, obviously) that Bezos and Musk have more in loose change lying around than the average millionaire pensioner.

IIRC in the US you need an income of $1million to be classed as a millionaire.

wingy · Sep 21, 2024

MalcSB said:
I am prepared to wager (small, obviously) that Bezos and Musk have more in loose change lying around than the average millionaire pensioner.

IIRC in the US you need an income of $1million to be classed as a millionaire.

Isn't their version of millionaire status something like ten times less than here?
Or is it billions?

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

wingy said:
Isn't their version of millionaire status something like ten times less than here?
Or is it billions?

No. It’s what I said.

wingy · Sep 21, 2024

MalcSB said:
No. It’s what I said.

What's the myth about the values applied then, bemused tbf, anyway time to enjoy the game, I'll be sitting at home again till they've either banned me or or not,useless fuckers!

shmmeee · Sep 21, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
I’ve got no massive issue with removal of winter fuel payments as long as they find better ways to ensure those that need the cash, get it (it’s why I’d have delayed this decision for a year to make sure plans were in place)

Removal of single person discount* would be OTT for both pensioners and single parents. If we want to hit rich people/pensioners just bump up Council tax for properties worth say 1m+ (2m+ in london) and if they don’t have liquid assets/cash allow it to accrue against the property and be payable on sale or passing

*in Birmingham that would be an equivalent rise of 40%+ in a couple of years due to the appalling mismanagement of the councils finances.

ps I say all this when we don’t actually know what’s going to be in the budget so can’t get too wound up yet

Yeah it would. Council tax needs massive reform and things like single payer discount are a limited attempt to redress the problems.

If they’re going to fuck about with it then it needs root and branch reform so a semi in Blackpool isn’t paying more taxes than Buckingham Palace.

shmmeee · Sep 21, 2024

MalcSB said:
I thought Labour was the party of the working class. Most pensioners fall in to that category.
The jobless by definition aren’t working people, so the Labour Party should say “fuck you” as they are saying to pensioners wrt winter fuel allowance.

By definition no pensioners are working class. Because they don’t work. They survive on assets appreciation and benefits mostly.

Nick · Sep 21, 2024

Wouldn't be surprised if the single person reduction was scrapped. Bit of a joke really.

Better off flying to France and getting a boat back and losing my passport in a couple of years.

Nick · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
By definition no pensioners are working class. Because they don’t work. They survive on assets appreciation and benefits mostly.

Pretty sure there's plenty of pensioners who work.

Grendel · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
By definition no pensioners are working class. Because they don’t work. They survive on assets appreciation and benefits mostly.

Many pensioners work what are you on about? Most have pensions oddly they’ve paid into and the state pension which again they’ve earned

shmmeee · Sep 21, 2024

Nick said:
Pretty sure there's plenty of pensioners who work.

Yeah fair. But the point is the Labour Party are supposed to be for the majority of working people and they have different class interests to those making money from asset appreciation like housing and pensions.

Nick · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
Yeah fair. But the point is the Labour Party are supposed to be for the majority of working people and they have different class interests to those making money from asset appreciation like housing and pensions.

I'm a working person. They do fuck all for me.

What sort of working person are they meant to be for? If anything, they are for prisoners and asylum seekers.

Grendel · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
Yeah fair. But the point is the Labour Party are supposed to be for the majority of working people and they have different class interests to those making money from asset appreciation like housing and pensions.

Why do you hate old people? Have you issues with parents?

shmmeee · Sep 21, 2024

Nick said:
I'm a working person. They do fuck all for me.

What sort of working person are they meant to be for? If anything, they are for prisoners and asylum seekers.

Why? What have they don’t since coming in that’s made you think that? Because the prisons were full when they arrived? Because they did the biggest deportation ever? It’s just shit racist memes mate.

This lot don’t seem to be doing much, but as a principle I’d rather give money to those who need it than those who don’t. Pensioners aren’t the demographic they were twenty years ago, they have the most wealth and the most disposable income. I’d much rather give families £300 than wealthy pensioners as a matter of principle.

Nick · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
Why? What have they don’t since coming in that’s made you think that? Because the prisons were full when they arrived? Because they did the biggest deportation ever? It’s just shit racist memes mate.

This lot don’t seem to be doing much, but as a principle I’d rather give money to those who need it than those who don’t. Pensioners aren’t the demographic they were twenty years ago, they have the most wealth and the most disposable income. I’d much rather give families £300 than wealthy pensioners as a matter of principle.

Who needs it? People who don't work? People fleeing Albania? Is it just a meme?

Of course there will be rich pensioners, plenty who aren't though. No reason to give millionaires any help with the heating, it doesn't mean don't give it to the people who aren't.

As somebody who works, lives alone etc. How are they going to benefit me in any way? If anything, I'll just be paying more tax for fuck all. I pay for prescriptions, dental care and because of not being able to get appointments I've had to pay myself for other treatments.

What exactly is "the working man" nowadays?

shmmeee · Sep 21, 2024

Nick said:
Who needs it? People who don't work? People fleeing Albania? Is it just a meme?

Of course there will be rich pensioners, plenty who aren't though.

As somebody who works, lives alone etc. How are they going to benefit me in any way? If anything, I'll just be paying more tax for fuck all.

What are you on about?

What more tax? What Albanians? Are you quite alright?

Grendel · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
What are you on about?

What more tax? What Albanians? Are you quite alright?

That’s ironic. Youve spent the last 48 hours on here with some freaky hatred of a section of the community - it’s really fucking strange

Nick · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
What are you on about?

What more tax? What Albanians? Are you quite alright?

Perfectly fine and try reading what I said.

How do labour help the working man? (Ones who aren't paying for their clothes)

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
I’ve got no massive issue with removal of winter fuel payments as long as they find better ways to ensure those that need the cash, get it (it’s why I’d have delayed this decision for a year to make sure plans were in place)

Removal of single person discount* would be OTT for both pensioners and single parents. If we want to hit rich people/pensioners just bump up Council tax for properties worth say 1m+ (2m+ in london) and if they don’t have liquid assets/cash allow it to accrue against the property and be payable on sale or passing

*in Birmingham that would be an equivalent rise of 40%+ in a couple of years due to the appalling mismanagement of the councils finances.

ps I say all this when we don’t actually know what’s going to be in the budget so can’t get too wound up yet

Why let the London bastards off. The council tax for band H is a mere £1,946. It’s £4,590 in Coventry.

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
You're right, but not in the way you think.

Do tell.

MalcSB · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
Why? What have they don’t since coming in that’s made you think that? Because the prisons were full when they arrived? Because they did the biggest deportation ever? It’s just shit racist memes mate.

This lot don’t seem to be doing much, but as a principle I’d rather give money to those who need it than those who don’t. Pensioners aren’t the demographic they were twenty years ago, they have the most wealth and the most disposable income. I’d much rather give families £300 than wealthy pensioners as a matter of principle.

I’d much rather keep my money than give it to wasters and illegal immigrants as a matter of principle.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2024

MalcSB said:
Do tell.

You're right to talk of a generational divide. My generation is the first to be worse off than the one which came before, and Gen Z are looking at something similar. Permanent full time work is harder to come by, house prices have risen up faster than inflation for decades, a university degree puts you into £30k+ of debt, and if you are in permanent full time work, your employer will be contributing much less to your pension.

3 years ago until she passed, my gran was the 85 year old widow you were describing, worked as a primary school teacher and married to an NHS doctor. I'd say they got the rewards their hard work deserved. The problem is, many in my generation will spend a lifetime working hard to probably not own a house, to have much less in their pension pot (if they have one), and having seen the value of their wages continue to drop.

You're right to be concerned about the impact the current cuts will have on today's pensioners. But this is a generation that was buying houses in the 60s for nearly as much as what my wife and I will pay for one month's mortgage instalment. If today's pensioners are going to struggle, the ones in the next few generations to come are royally screwed.

Grendel · Sep 21, 2024

Cry me a river

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2024

Grendel said:
Cry me a river

Call me a racist again. Or at least apologise for the defamatory accusation in the first place.

Grendel · Sep 21, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Call me a racist again. Or at least apologise for the defamatory accusation in the first place.

You are so bitter and angry despite your privileges

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2024

Grendel said:
You are so bitter and angry despite your privileges

Of course. Stating financial reality is bitterness.

On a serious point-you made threats against CC4L for a bogus accusation of racism. You haven't retracted what you said the other week-noted.

Grendel · Sep 21, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Of course. Stating financial reality is bitterness.

On a serious point-you made threats against CC4L for a bogus accusation of racism. You haven't retracted what you said the other week-noted.

here’s a thing about financial reality - I know 3 people in their 20’s who’ve worked from 16 and have saved enough to pay a huge deposit - one £80,000 at 27

Your comment was no more or less racist than the Engrish nonsense - own both

fatso · Sep 21, 2024

shmmeee said:
By definition no pensioners are working class. Because they don’t work. They survive on assets appreciation and benefits mostly.

Not true.
There are many many working people in receipt of the state pension.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 21, 2024

Grendel said:
here’s a thing about financial reality - I know 3 people in their 20’s who’ve worked from 16 and have saved enough to pay a huge deposit - one £80,000 at 27

Your comment was no more or less racist than the Engrish nonsense - own both

Your evidence is anecdotal, the empirical evidence shows the millennial generation is worse off than the ones before. A joke about a stereotypical Japanese evidence is the same as comparing two players getting fouled a lot? Of course it is.

You clearly aren't interested in genuine discussion on here besides going on the contrarian wind up.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (33 Viewers)

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