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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2024
  • #42,526
Como said:
Societies rise and Societies fall, it has always been thus. Some of the reasons are similar and there can be one obvious cause or a series of drip drip effects.

Will Mein Starmer rule over a Thousand Year Reich, of course not, will he hasten the demise, I personally think so but only time will tell.

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I thought this was quite interesting, it is hardly breaking new ground but worth a read.

Personal choice more than circumstances is the reason why younger generations are not having children, a new study reveals.
Recent figures from the Central Statistics Office showed that fewer children are being born in Ireland and the fertility rate is well below the replacement level. Understanding the reasons why people choose not to have offspring is crucial for comprehending the shifting demographics and future family structures.
A new study from the Pew Research Center on U.S. adults without children offers a detailed examination of the various reasons why this is the case, highlighting significant trends and differences across age groups.
The survey is based on two distinct cohorts: adults aged 18-49 and those aged 50 and older.
Lifestyle choice is a predominant reason for the decision not to have children, especially among younger adults.. Over half (57pc) of childless adults under 50 state they simply do not want to have kids. This figure is notably higher than among older adults (ages 50 and above), where only 31pc cite the same reason. This indicates a generational shift towards valuing personal autonomy and lifestyle choices over traditional expectations of parenthood.
Comparing these findings with past surveys reveals a clear move towards more people opting out of parenthood by choice rather than by circumstance. The share of non-parents under 50 who say they are unlikely to have children has increased by seven percentage points since 2018.
Click to expand...
Need more unplanned pregnancies for 16 yrolds don't we, don't hear much about that these day's?
 
Reactions: MalcSB

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2024
  • #42,527
I see @MalcSB has been writing into the paper…



He had almost grasped the idea of collective bargaining. Good start Jonathan, keep going.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, fernandopartridge and MalcSB
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2024
  • #42,528
shmmeee said:
I see @MalcSB has been writing into the paper…

View attachment 37876

He had almost grasped the idea of collective bargaining. Good start Jonathan, keep going.
Click to expand...
Who was that bloke from Wyken who always used to write in to the CT , don't expect You to know who I'm on about but was always entertaining!
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2024
  • #42,529
wingy said:
Who was that bloke from Wyken who always used to write in to the CT , don't expect You to know who I'm on about but was always entertaining!
Click to expand...
J T Hancock? or something like that?
 
Reactions: wingy and eastwoodsdustman
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,530
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
J T Hancock? or something like that?
Click to expand...
Yes that's the one I think!
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,531

 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,532
rob9872 said:

Click to expand...
A reasonable chap no doubt, fair play for trying to get a pint though!
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,533
Propaganda started again with energy price cap,hmm are we sure its not beneficial to the Gov't and b)why does offgen exist again , probably benefit enough to fund a war or something?
 
Last edited: Aug 19, 2024

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,534
rob9872 said:

Click to expand...

That is years old FYI.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, rob9872 and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,535
SBAndy said:
That is years old FYI.
Click to expand...

Was a Tory anti lockdown activist/conspiracist IIRC
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,536
shmmeee said:
Was a Tory anti lockdown activist/conspiracist IIRC
Click to expand...
Some of the comments under it are just brain dead.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,537
wingy said:
Yes that's the one I think!
Click to expand...
After a rethink I think it was actually M T Hancock, as I recall referring to them as M T Head.
 
Reactions: wingy

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,538
SBAndy said:
That is years old FYI.
Click to expand...
Thanks - had no idea tbh as I'd not seen it previously.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,539
Agree some of the comments are braindead, but equally the guy does have the right to refuse entry to whoever he likes and the way he carries on regardless with heavy handed minders. Ask yourselves if your response would have been the same if it had been Rishi or even dare I say Boris.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

Jamesimus

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,540
These Lee Anderson tweets are very accidentally funny…

 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,541
SBAndy said:
That is years old FYI.
Click to expand...
Does the fact it’s years old make Starmer any less of a c**t?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,542
Always a tricky one this, school choice, like grammars the evidence seems to suggest pulling bright/middle class kids out into their own school helps them and hurts those left behind. Though in the case of Free Schools the helping part is up for debate.

Gove’s free schools increase segregation and harm nearby schools, says study

Michael Gove’s policy aimed to create ‘galvanising effect’ on system in England but led to rise in divisions
www.theguardian.com

Ive swung both ways on this, but i think what’s bringing me down against Free Schools and the like, certainly in Primary is the amount of outright religious schools that have popped up. A CofE school like my daughters is one thing, but places like Eden and Siva are almost exclusively one race and that’s can’t be good for anyone. Though again Eden is one of the best performing schools in the country and providing a disadvantaged population (Muslim girls) with clearly a quality education.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,543
shmmeee said:
I see @MalcSB has been writing into the paper…

View attachment 37876

He had almost grasped the idea of collective bargaining. Good start Jonathan, keep going.
Click to expand...
In other news, Netflix are to announce a new political documentary featuring the Labour government entitled “Back to the 70s”.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,544
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
J T Hancock? or something like that?
Click to expand...
MT Hancock
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,545
shmmeee said:
Always a tricky one this, school choice, like grammars the evidence seems to suggest pulling bright/middle class kids out into their own school helps them and hurts those left behind.
Click to expand...
Does that mean that NOT pulling bright/middle class kids out into their own school hurts/ hinders them? Logic would suggest that to be the case.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,546
MalcSB said:
Does that mean that NOT pulling bright/middle class kids out into their own school hurts/ hinders them? Logic would suggest that to be the case.
Click to expand...

In the case of grammars, probably.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,547
This applies within a school as well. We set/stream more than most countries as well.

PISA: England’s schools segregate by ability more than almost every other country in the world

Comparing rates of setting and grouping by ability to those of other nations
blogs.ucl.ac.uk

On both a micro and macro scale setting kids by ability seems to be a zero sum game. Small gains for the brightest, small losses for the least bright.

https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-learning-toolkit/setting-and-streaming
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,548
Is the reverse not also true? As in those bright enough for grammars that end up in the mainstream, are held back by others they school with?

I hope it doesn't come across conceited, as I wouldn't change my schooling or friends I had, but they were basically dickheads (and arguably I was the biggest dickhead of them all), yet could comfortably have gone to a grammar and I'm certain I'd have been a much higher achiever if I had, rather than running with those who thought study was for whimps and playing football was much better.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,549
Jamesimus said:
These Lee Anderson tweets are very accidentally funny…

View attachment 37879View attachment 37880
Click to expand...

Yes Richard Tice seems the type to go on the dodgems as a day out. Was he and Isabelle Oakshot having fun on the Ghost Train and Hook A Duck?
 
Reactions: wingy and Jamesimus

Jamesimus

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,550
Grendel said:
Yes Richard Tice seems the type to go on the dodgems as a day out. Was he and Isabelle Oakshot having fun on the Ghost Train and Hook A Duck?
Click to expand...

Definitely shared some candy floss.
 
Reactions: wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,551
rob9872 said:
Is the reverse not also true? As in those bright enough for grammars that end up in the mainstream, are held back by others they school with?

I hope it doesn't come across conceited, as I wouldn't change my schooling or friends I had, but they were basically dickheads (and arguably I was the biggest dickhead of them all), yet could comfortably have gone to a grammar and I'm certain I'd have been a much higher achiever if I had, rather than running with those who thought study was for whimps and playing football was much better.
Click to expand...
Shmmeee has already said that is likely to be the case.
 
Reactions: rob9872

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,552
rob9872 said:
Is the reverse not also true? As in those bright enough for grammars that end up in the mainstream, are held back by others they school with?

I hope it doesn't come across conceited, as I wouldn't change my schooling or friends I had, but they were basically dickheads (and arguably I was the biggest dickhead of them all), yet could comfortably have gone to a grammar and I'm certain I'd have been a much higher achiever if I had, rather than running with those who thought study was for whimps and playing football was much better.
Click to expand...

Yeah it is. And as I say it’s the same in a school that has top/middle/bottom sets.

It’s a fascinating topic politically because it seems to be a true zero sum game: do you value the poor and/or stupid or the rich and/or smart? Can’t have both.

Which is why I come down against really. For such a small effect and zero effect on a population level, is itbwirth the risk to social cohesion from lack of integration. And arguably the economic cost of worse education for the worst is worse than the gain from a bit more education for the best.

I’m not solidly on either side though and have been pro academies and selection and anti.
 
Reactions: rob9872 and wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,553
shmmeee said:
Yeah it is. And as I say it’s the same in a school that has top/middle/bottom sets.

It’s a fascinating topic politically because it seems to be a true zero sum game: do you value the poor and/or stupid or the rich and/or smart? Can’t have both.

Which is why I come down against really. For such a small effect and zero effect on a population level, is itbwirth the risk to social cohesion from lack of integration. And arguably the economic cost of worse education for the worst is worse than the gain from a bit more education for the best.

I’m not solidly on either side though and have been pro academies and selection and anti.
Click to expand...
I guess the question is does the “damage” done to the smart by not having a selective process outweigh the damage done to the less intellectually gifted? There were times as a grammar school pupil when I felt held back in maths by those who weren’t quite up to it - to the extent that I lost interest and failed the O level first time. I can’t imagine what it would have been like if there were even less capable, perhaps disinterested, potentially disruptive pupils in the class.

Im sorry if that sounds conceited - for full transparency I will add that I underachieved at school compared with the school’s expectation.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,554
MalcSB said:
I guess the question is does the “damage” done to the smart by not having a selective process outweigh the damage done to the less intellectually gifted? There were times as a grammar school pupil when I felt held back in maths by those who weren’t quite up to it - to the extent that I lost interest and failed the O level first time. I can’t imagine what it would have been like if there were even less capable, perhaps disinterested, potentially disruptive pupils in the class.

Im sorry if that sounds conceited - for full transparency I will add that I underachieved at school compared with the school’s expectation.
Click to expand...
If it's a small consolation to you, I took my maths O'level in a comprehensive at 14 and passed (one of the youngest to still hold an actual O'level as we were the first GCSE year and I was youngest in the academic year, so it was only child geniuses who are younger).

Having said that I still maintain I would have benefitted from grammar school, as I believe I'd have been dragged along by the bootstraps of others rather than running with the crowd I did. Thankfully my family could never have afforded private education, which I am totally against (even for a Tory, yes I know!)
 
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,555
rob9872 said:
If it's a small consolation to you, I took my maths O'level in a comprehensive at 14 and passed (one of the youngest to still hold an actual O'level as we were the first GCSE year and I was youngest in the academic year, so it was only child geniuses who are younger).

Having said that I still maintain I would have benefitted from grammar school, as I believe I'd have been dragged along by the bootstraps of others rather than running with the crowd I did. Thankfully my family could never have afforded private education, which I am totally against (even for a Tory, yes I know!)
Click to expand...
Thanks for making me feel so much — better?
Sounds like you would have benefitted, I’m sure I would have sunk without trace in a secondary school.
 
Reactions: rob9872

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,556
I bought the 2022 Private Eye Annual from a local charity shop today, and found this on page 2.

Who would have thought that, under a Labour government, they would be able to recycle this so quickly as page 2 of the 2025 publication.
 

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Last edited: Aug 19, 2024

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,557
Nuneaton

 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,558
rob9872 said:
Is the reverse not also true? As in those bright enough for grammars that end up in the mainstream, are held back by others they school with?

I hope it doesn't come across conceited, as I wouldn't change my schooling or friends I had, but they were basically dickheads (and arguably I was the biggest dickhead of them all), yet could comfortably have gone to a grammar and I'm certain I'd have been a much higher achiever if I had, rather than running with those who thought study was for whimps and playing football was much better.
Click to expand...
I worked in a school that went from ability setting to mixed ability classes and I think overall it was beneficial for both as the higher ability children generally bring up the lower ability ones. There is also a definite mentality to being in a ‘bottom set’ that encourages children to expect less of themselves.

The impact on higher ability children varies according to how well the teacher can differentiate. In my case, I tried to make the lessons challenging overall so that everyone still progressed. The research on grammars generally shows them to a) have a negative effect on nearby comps and b) exacerbates social inequality as wealthier parents can afford to get 11+ coaching for their kids.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,559
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I worked in a school that went from ability setting to mixed ability classes and I think overall it was beneficial for both as the higher ability children generally bring up the lower ability ones. There is also a definite mentality to being in a ‘bottom set’ that encourages children to expect less of themselves.

The impact on higher ability children varies according to how well the teacher can differentiate. In my case, I tried to make the lessons challenging overall so that everyone still progressed. The research on grammars generally shows them to a) have a negative effect on nearby comps and b) exacerbates social inequality as wealthier parents can afford to get 11+ coaching for their kids.
Click to expand...
Did you not find that the higher ability children who found the lesson easier, regressed or caused trouble waiting for those at the other end to catch up? There are many subjects that could easily accommodate, but particularly maths and the sciences I suppose I'm thinking of.
 
Reactions: MalcSB
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 19, 2024
  • #42,560
rob9872 said:
Did you not find that the higher ability children who found the lesson easier, regressed or caused trouble waiting for those at the other end to catch up? There are many subjects that could easily accommodate, but particularly maths and the sciences I suppose I'm thinking of.
Click to expand...
I taught science, and set the lesson objective to always be something that would stretch the top end. The result of that was everyone getting challenged, and the lower ability kids often surprising themselves too by how far they got.

As an example, it wasn’t unusual for nobody in my classes to get below a 6 (old school ‘B’) in their GCSEs despite a fair number being predicted grade 5 and below. Students very often rise (and fall) to the level of expectation.
 
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