Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

chiefdave · Aug 14, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I'm increasingly thinking having employers have to provide healthcare for their employees would be something to seriously look at.

Did this used to happen pre-NHS? Going through all the paperwork my Dad left in the loft I've discovered that when he was younger he was treated in a hospital not just paid for but belonging to his workplace, Courtaulds.

This would have been at a time the NHS was in its infancy and trying to get more info I was told that employers wanted their staff fit and healthy and without state provided healthcare this was how they ensured that.

Of course back in those days employers would invest in their staff far more than today as you were investing in someone who would be with you for decades.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I'm increasingly thinking having employers have to provide healthcare for their employees would be something to seriously look at.

No, it wouldn’t. Just another thing to hold over an employee’s head.

Grendel · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
No, it wouldn’t. Just another thing to hold over an employee’s head.

How?

MalcSB · Aug 14, 2024

Grendel said:
How?

I suppose employers would expect staff to turn up for work and so on.

MalcSB · Aug 14, 2024

The French health system seemed OK. Paid part by the state funded through a form of “national insurance” and the individual, most of whom would have a complementary health insurance, This wasn’t too expensive as serious conditions such as heart problems, strokes, cancer were entirely funded by the state. GP appointments you gave the GP €10 IIRC which was eventually refunded. Lot of diagnostics privately provided and very accessible. Of course, if you needed an interpreter you paid for that yourself.

I quite like the French taxation system as well. Total household income was divided by the number of “parts” in the household- adults counted as one part and children as a half. So a couple with two children would have their income divided by three, tax calculated at the various bands and then multiplied by three. In UK terms a sharing of personal allowances and tax bands which doesn't punish single earner households. One of the things that annoys me here is that couples are counted separately or together to suit the government with no consistency.

shmmeee · Aug 14, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
One of the potential issues with such a tax that makes the health service reliant on the state of the economy (assuming it would be paid as a % of income at source)

True, but that’s true for all public services under the current economic model

fernandopartridge · Aug 14, 2024

shmmeee said:
True, but that’s true for all public services under the current economic model

I suppose so but some are 'protected'

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
No, it wouldn’t. Just another thing to hold over an employee’s head.

I get there are potential problems, as employers would be less inclined to employ/retain an employee with chronic/severe health issues. But if we want to get the burden down then who else pays it.

There would also be benefits to employers, as it should reduce sick days and potentially improve productivity

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Grendel said:
Most employees would reject it due to cost

I assume you mean employers, but I didn't say it would be a choice.

A similar argument was used when compulsory inclusion to pension schemes was introduced. And with that the employers gets nothing in return. Paying for healthcare you get a healthier, more productive workforce.

chiefdave · Aug 14, 2024

Could be good news for those who use the trains

fernandopartridge · Aug 14, 2024

chiefdave said:
Could be good news for those who use the trains

My usually reliable local service has been the opposite over the last few months. I mean a pay deal and recruiting sufficient drivers to cover the timetable without making some do overtime is what they should be doing.

MalcSB · Aug 14, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
My usually reliable local service has been the opposite over the last few months. I mean a pay deal and recruiting sufficient drivers to cover the timetable without making some do overtime is what they should be doing.

Making some do overtime

Sky Blue Pete · Aug 14, 2024

chiefdave said:
Could be good news for those who use the trains

Communists

Grendel · Aug 14, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I assume you mean employers, but I didn't say it would be a choice.

A similar argument was used when compulsory inclusion to pension schemes was introduced. And with that the employers gets nothing in return. Paying for healthcare you get a healthier, more productive workforce.

No I mean employees as it’s a taxable benefit

Johnnythespider · Aug 14, 2024

Grendel said:
No I mean employees as it’s a taxable benefit

Correct, I had an operation on a company health scheme years back.and then found out I had to pay back about £450

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Grendel said:
No I mean employees as it’s a taxable benefit

Not if the law says it isn't...

It could be considered a right, just like a break during long working hours.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Not if the law says it isn't...

It could be considered a right, just like a break during long working hours.

Covering the cost of healthcare shouldn’t be an employer’s remit.

Grendel · Aug 14, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Not if the law says it isn't...

It could be considered a right, just like a break during long working hours.

Oh so you think the law should be changed and every employee have access to private health care. Barrista has cancer in an independent coffee shop - owner pays

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Covering the cost of healthcare shouldn’t be an employer’s remit.

Covering part of the cost of their retirement is with pension contributions. Why? Doesn't benefit the company is any way shape or form. Only thing is does is protect employees later in life who, some would argue, if they were sensible should be able to set aside enough for their own retirement without the need for an employer to contribute.

As I've said there are benefits to be had to companies in term of less sick days and better productivity. Plenty of jobs involve some form of hazard that could require long term healthcare. Even some jobs that you wouldn't think of. People in archives etc. inhaling mould etc off old paperwork that over time can really damage the pulmonary system.

As it should free up the burden on the NHS it could be allied to tax cuts elsewhere to reflect that change.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Grendel said:
Oh so you think the law should be changed and every employee have access to private health care. Barrista has cancer in an independent coffee shop - owner pays

Obviously it would be rolled out among large employers, certainly to begin with anyway.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Covering part of the cost of their retirement is with pension contributions. Why? Doesn't benefit the company is any way shape or form. Only thing is does is protect employees later in life who, some would argue, if they were sensible should be able to set aside enough for their own retirement without the need for an employer to contribute.

As I've said there are benefits to be had to companies in term of less sick days and better productivity. Plenty of jobs involve some form of hazard that could require long term healthcare. Even some jobs that you wouldn't think of. People in archives etc. inhaling mould etc off old paperwork that over time can really damage the pulmonary system.

As it should free up the burden on the NHS it could be allied to tax cuts elsewhere to reflect that change.

If you want those benefits of productivity and reduced absence, we’d be better off pushing for 4 day work weeks.

MalcSB · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If you want those benefits of productivity and reduced absence, we’d be better off pushing for 4 day work weeks.

Let’s make it 3!

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

MalcSB said:
Let’s make it 3!

Hmmm, you do understand numerous 4 day work week trials have been carried out?

Johnnythespider · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Hmmm, you do understand numerous 4 day work week trials have been carried out?

I've been working a 4 day week since 2009
Edit - it's great

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

While we’re here, how about universal school breakfast and lunch as an inexpensive help to child poverty, general nutrition, and education.

shmmeee · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
While we’re here, how about universal school breakfast and lunch as an inexpensive help to child poverty, general nutrition, and education.

Everyone should be able to drop kids at school at 8 at primary would make so many peoples mornings more manageable and it doesn’t need to be staffed by teachers.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

shmmeee said:
Everyone should be able to drop kids at school at 8 at primary would make so many peoples mornings more manageable and it doesn’t need to be staffed by teachers.

It would have a lot of secondary benefits and remove any social stigma for FSM kids. Surprised me how little it would cost compared to what I thought.

Could make a difference to lots of people.

shmmeee · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It would have a lot of secondary benefits and remove any social stigma for FSM kids. Surprised me how little it would cost compared to what I thought.

Could make a difference to lots of people.

Its a real no brainier for me. Cheap, improves student performance, and if done well can be a nice communal experience for kids. We need to rethink school lunches completely. Some of the shite served up by subcontractors is a disgrace.

MalcSB · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Hmmm, you do understand numerous 4 day work week trials have been carried out?

I’m not sure how I would have fitted the number of hours I worked into 4 days.

Como · Aug 14, 2024

The School where I am does a 8am start, and a 4 day week, Teachers seem to like it.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 14, 2024

MalcSB said:
I’m not sure how I would have fitted the number of hours I worked into 4 days.

The studies into it tend to support that productivity increases and absenteeism decreases.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If you want those benefits of productivity and reduced absence, we’d be better off pushing for 4 day work weeks.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
While we’re here, how about universal school breakfast and lunch as an inexpensive help to child poverty, general nutrition, and education.

I agree, but knowing someone who runs a HAF programme they say so much food is wasted as so many kids refuse to eat it and just chuck it away. And it's not bad food either.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 14, 2024

MalcSB said:
I’m not sure how I would have fitted the number of hours I worked into 4 days.

Then work smarter

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 15, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I agree, but knowing someone who runs a HAF programme they say so much food is wasted as so many kids refuse to eat it and just chuck it away. And it's not bad food either.

Well, that’s a holiday programme in fairness. I don’t think you’d get the same waste during a regular school day.

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