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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (25 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,371
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Still the most popular party. How would you feel if a Labour government was beholden to a Green/Lib Dem minority elected by an even smaller % of the electorate.

Or on the flip side, a party you voted for could only form a government with support of a smaller party or two - who you didn’t vote for?

It’s rare for parties to get above 40% in popular vote in general, but particularly so in PR systems. Therefore, coalition governments become the norm rather than majority governments.
Click to expand...
Might be better, might be worse. FPTP seems to allow disproportionate majorities and yo-yoing from one philosophy to another rather than perhaps enabling some continuity.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,372
MalcSB said:
Might be better, might be worse. FPTP seems to allow disproportionate majorities and yo-yoing from one philosophy to another rather than perhaps enabling some continuity.
Click to expand...
Decisive majorities, in my personal opinion, is better. That’s just one school of thought, on the continent, the prevailing belief is that politics by consensus is inherently more desirable.

Like most things in politics, left or right, FPTP or PR, there is no definitive correct answer. Different things work for different countries and their political systems/traditions.

I’ll reiterate the point that, whilst I didn’t vote for a Labour government, it is desirable that they can carry out their ‘mandate’ (however weak or strong) without barrier. In a PR environment, I genuinely believe Brexit would’ve deadlocked the country more and risked a lot more of a toxic political environment and culture. As it happens, the 2019 GE delivered Brexit definitively - even if I personally didn’t agree with it in 2016. In my view, this shows how dynamic our constitutional settlement is.

Of course this is just one school of thought.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,373
Sick Boy said:
Great to see Blair is back and advising Starmer from the sidelines.
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Starmer has just announced some new money to spend on weapons, never a "tough decision" to be made in this area
 
Reactions: clint van damme, Ian1779 and Sick Boy

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,374
CCFCSteve said:
Got to ask WTF have Ofwat been doing during all this (fuck all)
Click to expand...
They've got no real powers
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,375
David O'Day said:
Farage makes prick of himself on day 1
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It'll be interesting to see how he's treated by the media now he's an actual MP, hopefully held to account more
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,376
fernandopartridge said:
It'll be interesting to see how he's treated by the media now he's an actual MP, hopefully held to account more
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Doubt it
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,377
I'm sure he'll get a correctly proportional amount of coverage for a party that has only 4 seats
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, clint van damme and MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,378
PVA said:
I'm sure he'll get a correctly proportional amount of coverage for a party that has only 4 seats
Click to expand...
Or one that got more votes than the Lib Dem’s and just under half Labour’s total.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,379
fernandopartridge said:
They've got no real powers
Click to expand...

Crazy if they don’t have sufficient powers but from what I’ve seen is penalties they’ve issued have been pathetic. This looks a bit late but still been around for over a year

Government supports new Ofwat powers to tackle water company dividends

New powers made possible through the Environment Act will enable Ofwat to clamp down on excessive cash pay-outs and hold water companies to account
www.gov.uk
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,380
fernandopartridge said:
Starmer has just announced some new money to spend on weapons, never a "tough decision" to be made in this area
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I haven't seen what that entails or how much money, and I appreciate there are plenty of other pressing concerns, but it's clearly important. Like everything else the Tories have utterly hollowed out the armed forces and left it in a dire state:


 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,381
PVA said:
I haven't seen what that entails or how much money, and I appreciate there are plenty of other pressing concerns, but it's clearly important. Like everything else the Tories have utterly hollowed out the armed forces and left it in a dire state:


Click to expand...
Tbf we already spend more on our military than our NATO commitment obliges.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,382
PVA said:
I haven't seen what that entails or how much money, and I appreciate there are plenty of other pressing concerns, but it's clearly important. Like everything else the Tories have utterly hollowed out the armed forces and left it in a dire state:


Click to expand...

We are one of the few countries who meet NATO defence spending commitments
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,383
Grendel said:
We are one of the few countries who meet NATO defence spending commitments
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Yes and like everything else the Tories have obviously totally mismanaged that money and left something to ruin, so now it needs fixing.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,384
PVA said:
Yes and like everything else the Tories have obviously totally mismanaged that money and left something to ruin, so now it needs fixing.
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So we need more armed forces personnel? Why? Are we going to war?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,385
Grendel said:
So we need more armed forces personnel? Why? Are we going to war?
Click to expand...

'Shall we bother with pandemic planning? Why? Is there going to be a pandemic?'
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,386
Deleted member 5849 said:
Tbf we already spend more on our military than our NATO commitment obliges.
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..and more than a lot of our NATO colleagues and have been for a significant period of time. Been saying for ages western European countries need to pull their collective fingers out and quick

The MoD has also unfortunately wasted billions upon billions.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,387
PVA said:
'Shall we bother with pandemic planning? Why? Is there going to be a pandemic?'
Click to expand...

So how does our number of armed forces compare to the rest of Europe? Our general standing is rather high isn’t it? I’m amazed you think defence spending is a big issue. Then again as you’ve seen an article on X why am I surprised

Which Are the Top 10 Strongest Armies in the World ?

Explore the world's ten most powerful armies, with respect to their technical brilliance, military force, and strategic impact.
bestdiplomats.org
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,388
CCFCSteve said:
..and more than a lot of our NATO colleagues and have been for a significant period of time. Been saying for ages western European countries need to pull their collective fingers out and quick
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Yup. Starmer's committed increase is also relatively small, and smacks of something you can stick in the last budget before the election to say you've made it!
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,389
Grendel said:
So how does our number of armed forces compare to the rest of Europe? Our general standing is rather high isn’t it? I’m amazed you think defence spending is a big issue. Then again as you’ve seen an article on X why am I surprised

Which Are the Top 10 Strongest Armies in the World ?

Explore the world's ten most powerful armies, with respect to their technical brilliance, military force, and strategic impact.
bestdiplomats.org
Click to expand...

And it's quite amusing you dismiss something from the recently retired Chief of the army yet take Best Diplomats as gospel.

I'm sure they've got a much better grasp of the state of the British armed forces than the bloke who was *checks notes* oh, in charge of the British armed forces.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,390
PVA said:
I never said anything about number of armed forces.

And it's quite amusing you dismiss something from the recently retired Chief of the army yet take Best Diplomats as gospel.

I'm sure they've got a much better grasp of the state of the British armed forces than the bloke who was *checks notes* oh, in charge of the British armed forces.
Click to expand...

Well clearly someone in the armed forces will see an opportunity with a new government to increase spending.

Even NW is someone sceptical - sometimes rather than have vibes you have to perhaps think more and dig a bit deeper before posting?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,391
Grendel said:
Even NW is someone sceptical
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Don't involve me in your daily tete-a-tete
 
Reactions: Grendel
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,392
Grendel said:
vibes
Click to expand...

 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,393
Deleted member 5849 said:
Tbf we already spend more on our military than our NATO commitment obliges.
Click to expand...
The last 2 years aside though our spending in real terms has gone down for over a decade and our military has shrunk considerably in terms of personnel.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,394
PVA said:
And it's quite amusing you dismiss something from the recently retired Chief of the army yet take Best Diplomats as gospel.

I'm sure they've got a much better grasp of the state of the British armed forces than the bloke who was *checks notes* oh, in charge of the British armed forces.
Click to expand...
Yes somebody who is high up in the army is not at all conflicted in this matter
 
Reactions: Grendel

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,395
skybluetony176 said:
The last 2 years aside though our spending in real terms has gone down for over a decade and our military has shrunk considerably in terms of personnel.
Click to expand...

Personally think the increases in poverty is far more important a priority
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,396
skybluetony176 said:
The last 2 years aside though our spending in real terms has gone down for over a decade and our military has shrunk considerably in terms of personnel.
Click to expand...
The trend has been downward since Major really (Northern Ireland would help I guess? No more Cold War either) but we have always stayed above our NATO commitments
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,397
fernandopartridge said:
Yes somebody who is high up in the army is not at all conflicted in this matter
Click to expand...

Ok well how about someone who carried out an independent assessment of the state of the armed forces for the government?

The findings were presented by Dr Rob Johnson, who led a government unit to measure the country’s readiness for war.

He said that the UK military was operating with a “bare minimum” that only just allowed it to mount peacekeeping and humanitarian relief operations, civilian evacuation from warzones, and some anti-sabotage activities.

Johnson told the Financial Times: “In any larger-scale operation, we would run out of ammunition rapidly. Our defences are too thin and we are not prepared to fight and win an armed conflict of any scale.

“The UK has reached a situation where it cannot defend the British homelands properly.”
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,398
fernandopartridge said:
Personally think the increases in poverty is far more important a priority
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It is, but they didn’t address that with the money saved.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,399
Hang on a minute. I've just had a look at what has actually been said or proposed.

This new money he's found that you're upset about is a 0.2% increase to happen at some point in the future. That's it?

He really hasn't got a chance with some people!
 
Last edited: Jul 10, 2024
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,400
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and wingy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,401
Deleted member 5849 said:
Click to expand...
They’re tearing themselves apart



 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,402
i do like a bit of blue on blue violence
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,403
If they were sensible they'd go for someone like Tugenhadt but they're not so it'll be Braverman or Badenoch and it'll be a disaster.
 
Last edited: Jul 10, 2024
Reactions: CCFCSteve

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,404
PVA said:
If they were sensible they'd go for someone like Tugenhadt but they're not so it'll be Braverman or Badenoch and it'll be a disaster.
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If Braverman and BadEnoch are the final 2 the Tory memberships heads are going to explode trying to pick the craziest out of those two.
 
Reactions: PVA
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jul 10, 2024
  • #41,405
skybluetony176 said:
If Braverman and BadEnoch are the final 2 the Tory memberships heads are going to explode trying to pick the craziest out of those two.
Click to expand...
Someone's going to come on here and say they are centre right or moderates though. I really don't know what they have to say or do for some people to realise how extreme our last Government was. Let’s not forget these two held senior positions.
 
Reactions: chiefdave, SIR ERNIE, ovduk78 and 1 other person
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