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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,336
Great to see Blair is back and advising Starmer from the sidelines.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, SIR ERNIE and Grendel
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,337
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If he were really an important player in that he wouldn’t be hoarding enormous sums of money as opposed to using that capital to try and make it happen.
Click to expand...

I agree that he’s probably wasted a load on Twitter, but also invested load in space X, starlink etc, not sure he’s hoarding cash. Most of his wealth is in shares ie value left in the company. His Tesla compensation package originally agreed in 2018 meant he didn’t get paid at all if he didn’t hit various aggressive targets over the following five years. Not sure you can ask more than than from a CEO in terms of investing in the company you’re leading ie leaving capital in the business so it can grow and develop

Anyway this is politics thread, was just making the point earlier that in terms of battery/energy storage they’ll be a big player
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,338
CCFCSteve said:
. Most of his wealth is in shares ie value left in the company.
Click to expand...

On this saw this the other day, and not sure it’s the winning argument it’s presented as. This fundamentally feels like tax evasion to me, I assume Musk and other billionaires do similar.

 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,339
shmmeee said:
On this saw this the other day, and not sure it’s the winning argument it’s presented as. This fundamentally feels like tax evasion to me, I assume Musk and other billionaires do similar.

Click to expand...

I think most just sell shares inc bezos

Amazon founder Jeff Bezos plans $5bn share sale - BBC News

In February, Mr Bezos announced that he would sell shares in technology giant worth around $8.5bn.
www.bbc.co.uk

ps just to clarify I do think the wealth of these people is just obscene.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,340
If nothing else it created some good memes

Turns out that ‘AI’ Reform UK candidate really is an actual person and his GB News interview just made the whole thing even better

In a wholly unexpected plot twist in the fallout from Labour’s landslide election win, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK has come under pressure to provide evidence that all of its candidates standing in last week’s poll were, you know, real people. Reform insisted that every one of its 609 wannabe MPs...
www.thepoke.com

My personal favourite

 
Reactions: bezzer, RegTheDonk and Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,341
CCFCSteve said:
I think most just sell shares inc bezos

Amazon founder Jeff Bezos plans $5bn share sale - BBC News

In February, Mr Bezos announced that he would sell shares in technology giant worth around $8.5bn.
www.bbc.co.uk

ps just to clarify I do think the wealth of these people is just obscene.
Click to expand...

I think billionaires of the Musk level is a policy failure, but even so I’d just like them to pay an equivalent tax rate to everyone else. They must be the only group with a lobby group asking to pay more tax.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,342
shmmeee said:
I think billionaires of the Musk level is a policy failure, but even so I’d just like them to pay an equivalent tax rate to everyone else. They must be the only group with a lobby group asking to pay more tax.
Click to expand...
What is preventing them from making a direct contribution to the Treasury?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,343
Brighton Sky Blue said:
What is preventing them from making a direct contribution to the Treasury?
Click to expand...

Well let’s just shut down politics and everyone can just adhere to the laws they personally believe in.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,344
Sick Boy said:
Great to see Blair is back and advising Starmer from the sidelines.
Click to expand...
The tentacles of Blair and Obama still reach into the wheels of government.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,345
Sick Boy said:
Great to see Blair is back and advising Starmer from the sidelines.
Click to expand...
Posted the other day when he first popped up post-election victory that I hoped this wasn't going to be a regular thing but he's been doing the rounds again this morning and now Streeting is giving a press conference from the Tony Blair Institute Future of Britain conference
 

AOM

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,346
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Unlockable characters:

Mark Matlock
20th Century Mogg
GB News Mogg
Unemployed Gullis
The Coventrian
Click to expand...

If you fail too many objectives, there's a secret boss

 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,347
chiefdave said:
Posted the other day when he first popped up post-election victory that I hoped this wasn't going to be a regular thing but he's been doing the rounds again this morning and now Streeting is giving a press conference from the Tony Blair Institute Future of Britain conference
Click to expand...

That’s why he’s doing the rounds. He’s got a conference to promote.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,348
How on earth was Thames Water allowed to pay out £158 in dividends in March and then plead poverty today? The system is so loaded.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744 and Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,349
skybluetony176 said:
How on earth was Thames Water allowed to pay out £158 in dividends in March and then plead poverty today? The system is so loaded.
Click to expand...

They've managed to persuade the country that having control of your own water supply is commie wokeness
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, AOM, Ian1779 and 1 other person

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,350
clint van damme said:
They've managed to persuade the country that having control of your own water supply is commie wokeness
Click to expand...
If you were being cynical you’d suggest that they’ve taken all of last year’s profits out as one last hurrah before dumping it and the government to pick up the pieces. Read in an earlier article about how they’re going to run out of money next year and last year they made a profit of… checks notes… £158M. Share holders can’t lose can they. Load it full of debt to pay dividends while taking all the profits out to boot, invest fuck all and when it inevitably goes tits up it’s someone else’s problem.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,351
clint van damme said:
They've managed to persuade the country that having control of your own water supply is commie wokeness
Click to expand...

Just looked and apparently it’s just us and Chile that have privatised water. Just shows how mental Thatcher was.
 
Reactions: rondog1973, AOM, Ian1779 and 2 others
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,352
shmmeee said:
Just looked and apparently it’s just us and Chile that have privatised water. Just shows how mental Thatcher was.
Click to expand...
She was a big fan of Pinochet...

Irony is a lot of t's owned by other state water companies!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,353
Deleted member 5849 said:
She was a big fan of Pinochet...

Irony is a lot of t's owned by other state water companies!
Click to expand...

Same with the rail and energy. It’s almost like government is where capacity for building and running infrastructure should naturally accrue.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and AOM
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,354
shmmeee said:
Same with the rail and energy. It’s almost like government is where capacity for building and running infrastructure should naturally accrue.
Click to expand...
Half the postal companies too for that matter.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,355
skybluetony176 said:
How on earth was Thames Water allowed to pay out £158 in dividends in March and then plead poverty today? The system is so loaded.
Click to expand...

Got to ask WTF have Ofwat been doing during all this (fuck all)
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,356
shmmeee said:
Same with the rail and energy. It’s almost like government is where capacity for building and running infrastructure should naturally accrue.
Click to expand...

I’ve not got a major issue if there can be competition to drive better delivery, prices etc, when it’s a monopoly, what’s the point.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,357
CCFCSteve said:
Got to ask WTF have Ofwat been doing during all this (fuck all)
Click to expand...
Didn’t it come out last year that pretty much every boss Ofwat has ever had was either a former director of a water company or went on to be a director of a water company when they left? I think the current Ofwat boss is the former from memory.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,358
They’ve learned fuck all from the GE

 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,359
Farage makes prick of himself on day 1
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,360
David O'Day said:
Farage makes prick of himself on day 1
Click to expand...

Tice all over the shop as well.
Tieing himself in knots over PR
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,361
clint van damme said:
Tice all over the shop as well.
Tieing himself in knots over PR
Click to expand...
What saying?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,362
skybluetony176 said:
They’ve learned fuck all from the GE

Click to expand...
Long may it continue
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,363
shmmeee said:
Discussing if Reform/Tories are far right is so passé, the question is are the Greens left wing?

View attachment 36720
Click to expand...
No, they're mentalists.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,364
Sky Blue Pete said:
What saying?
Click to expand...

Said something like only us and Belarus have first past the post post in Europe and that's not a good luck but also wants us to leave the EHRC, which would put us alongside Belarus and Russia
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,365
clint van damme said:
Said something like only us and Belarus have first past the post post in Europe and that's not a good luck but also wants us to leave the EHRC, which would put us alongside Belarus and Russia
Click to expand...
France also uses a majoritarian system, just over 2 rounds of voting.

How would PR improve our democracy and governance? To use this election as an example, Labour would’ve needed to enter a coalition with the Lib Dems and Greens to form a government.

Hypothetically, there could be a situation where the Tories, Reform and Lib Dems could prevent the biggest party from forming a government, which happened in Spain recently.

Then in government, these smaller parties can exert undue influence on policy making. For example, in Scotland where the Greens held unearned influence on a handful of policy areas as the very junior partner of the coalition with the SNP.

I didn’t vote for a Labour government but the country decisively favoured them as the majority party. This election in particular produced distorted results, however, the Labour government can crack on with their agenda without needing to be held back by multiple junior parties.

It’s not perfect but I don’t envy PR systems at all. Our political culture is very different too as the one of the only major western democracy to have never had its democracy overthrown.
 
Reactions: bezzer

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,366
Mucca Mad Boys said:
France also uses a majoritarian system, just over 2 rounds of voting.

How would PR improve our democracy and governance? To use this election as an example, Labour would’ve needed to enter a coalition with the Lib Dems and Greens to form a government.

Hypothetically, there could be a situation where the Tories, Reform and Lib Dems could prevent the biggest party from forming a government, which happened in Spain recently.

Then in government, these smaller parties can exert undue influence on policy making. For example, in Scotland where the Greens held unearned influence on a handful of policy areas as the very junior partner of the coalition with the SNP.

I didn’t vote for a Labour government but the country decisively favoured them as the majority party. This election in particular produced distorted results, however, the Labour government can crack on with their agenda without needing to be held back by multiple junior parties.

It’s not perfect but I don’t envy PR systems at all. Our political culture is very different too as the one of the only major western democracy to have never had its democracy overthrown.
Click to expand...
Yeah we’ve grown up with it so know no different
Think there’s better but it would be difficult
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,367
Mucca Mad Boys said:
France also uses a majoritarian system, just over 2 rounds of voting.

How would PR improve our democracy and governance? To use this election as an example, Labour would’ve needed to enter a coalition with the Lib Dems and Greens to form a government.

Hypothetically, there could be a situation where the Tories, Reform and Lib Dems could prevent the biggest party from forming a government, which happened in Spain recently

Then in government, these smaller parties can exert undue influence on policy making. For example, in Scotland where the Greens held unearned influence on a handful of policy areas as the very junior partner of the coalition with the SNP.

I didn’t vote for a Labour government but the country decisively favoured them as the majority party. This election in particular produced distorted results, however, the Labour government can crack on with their agenda without needing to be held back by multiple junior parties.

It’s not perfect but I don’t envy PR systems at all. Our political culture is very different too as the one of the only major western democracy to have never had its democracy overthrown.
Click to expand...
The country didn’t decisively favour Labour. Only 20% of the electorate voted for them, 34% of total votes cast and less than 10 million put an X against a labour candidate.
17.4 million voted for Brexit.
 
Last edited: Jul 9, 2024

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,368
MalcSB said:
The country didn’t decisively favour Labour. Only 20% of the electorate voted for them, 34% of total votes cast and less than 10 million put an X against a labour candidate.
17.4 million voted for Brexit which the left wing has never been able to accept,
Click to expand...

There was a large section of 'the left wing' who voted leave and a large section, many on here including myself, who voted remain but have said they would not vote for a party calling for a second referendum.

So that's just a generalisation.
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,369
clint van damme said:
There was a large section of 'the left wing' who voted leave and a large section, many on here including myself, who voted remain but have said they would not vote for a party calling for a second referendum.

So that's just a generalisation.
Click to expand...
on reflection a fair comment, have edited original post.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 9, 2024
  • #41,370
MalcSB said:
The country didn’t decisively favour Labour. Only 20% of the electorate voted for them, 34% of total votes cast and less than 10 million put an X against a labour candidate.
17.4 million voted for Brexit.
Click to expand...
Still the most popular party. How would you feel if a Labour government was beholden to a Green/Lib Dem minority elected by an even smaller % of the electorate.

Or on the flip side, a party you voted for could only form a government with support of a smaller party or two - who you didn’t vote for?

It’s rare for parties to get above 40% in popular vote in general, but particularly so in PR systems. Therefore, coalition governments become the norm rather than majority governments.
 
Last edited: Jul 9, 2024
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