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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,061
PVA said:
It's not a Tory/Labour thing. You're the only one making it a Tory vs Labour thing.

Johnson made comments that lead to a massive spike in Islamophobic incidents. You think he shouldn't apologise, because he's on the team you support. If someone from Labour said it it's so obvious you'd be apoplectic about it.
Click to expand...

Im making it a feeedom of Liberty thing which is expression of the individual despite race or gender - something you clearly oppose and have bigotry at the top of your agenda. I really think very few people will defend you on this
 
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,062
shmmeee said:
You seem to think race isn’t a social construct. I’d be interested to hear your reasons and what you think the races are.
Click to expand...

No, I see race as a social construct.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,063
shmmeee said:
That’s not how government debt and taxation work. At all.

Feel free to plot tax as a % of GDP vs debt as a % of GDP to prove me wrong though.
Click to expand...

Not the point I’m making at all.

Government expenditure and the deficit has increased and this has largely been driven by COVID. Handing out pay increases to public sector workers just make sense given that context. A lot of private businesses would struggle to offer their staff 2-3% increases year on year after 2020/2021.

Sturgeon’s cynical 4% increase of nurse’s pay was political opportunism given that there was an election around the corner. It’s not like Scotland isn’t running one of the largest deficits in Europe and what does it matter either? Their deficit is subsidised.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,064
Grendel said:
Im making it a feeedom of Liberty thing which is expression of the individual despite race or gender - something you clearly oppose and have bigotry at the top of your agenda. I really think very few people will defend you on this
Click to expand...

Whatever your point is you keep refusing to accept that someone should apologise for saying something that lead to a huge spike in Islamophobic attacks. All because you've got your nose so far up his arse you can barely breathe.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,065
PVA said:
It's not a Tory/Labour thing. You're the only one making it a Tory vs Labour thing.

Johnson made comments that lead to a massive spike in Islamophobic incidents. You think he shouldn't apologise, because he's on the team you support. If someone from Labour said it it's so obvious you'd be apoplectic about it.
Click to expand...

On a serious point if the burka is not banned is there a woman in a strict Muslim environment surrounded by her male Family who says she will not wear it in the street be allowed her rights as a free an independent woman in the U.K.?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,066
Grendel said:
Im making it a feeedom of Liberty thing which is expression of the individual despite race or gender - something you clearly oppose and have bigotry at the top of your agenda. I really think very few people will defend you on this
Click to expand...

The consensus seems to be he made some dickish comments about Muslims. That and the Tories more broadly have a problem with Islamophobia and general anti-Muslim sentiment that by proportion of membership is far bigger than the anti-Semitism complaints in Labour.

Yet when pressed you don't seem to have any problem with one of these
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, hill83, Ian1779 and 4 others
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,067
stupot07 said:
Racism

noun

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

By your example, anti-semitism is not racist, Judaism is a religion not a race.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I cannot take seriously the position that criticism, even in the form of parody, against religious fundamentalism is racism, covering as it does the mass number of ethnicities that you would choose to conflate and remove of such identity. It's a defence used by those who wish to control the agenda.

And I think if you spoke with many, perhaps the majority of Jews they might disagree with you, and so even disagree with the concept of race as a social construct.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,068
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Not the point I’m making at all.

Government expenditure and the deficit has increased and this has largely been driven by COVID. Handing out pay increases to public sector workers just make sense given that context. A lot of private businesses would struggle to offer their staff 2-3% increases year on year after 2020/2021.

Sturgeon’s cynical 4% increase of nurse’s pay was political opportunism given that there was an election around the corner. It’s not like Scotland isn’t running one of the largest deficits in Europe and what does it matter either? Their deficit is subsidised.
Click to expand...

I think offering higher pay to a profession spread pretty evenly geographically across the country is a pretty good idea in a recession where demand has dipped severely.

I don’t believe in using economics to mete out some kind of perceived “justice”, I want it to make the economy work as well as possible.

As you say the private sector is on its arse and can’t kick start the economy itself, so the broad shoulders of government have to step in.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,069
PVA said:
Whatever your point is you keep refusing to accept that someone should apologise for saying something that lead to a huge spike in Islamophobic attacks. All because you've got your nose so far up his arse you can barely breathe.
Click to expand...

He was standing up for women and their rights of expression in a religion that views women as inferior. This is saying a lot about you and none of it is good sadly
 
Reactions: SomersetSB, Deleted member 11652 and Deleted member 4439
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,070
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The consensus seems to be he made some dickish comments about Muslims. That and the Tories more broadly have a problem with Islamophobia and general anti-Muslim sentiment that by proportion of membership is far bigger than the anti-Semitism complaints in Labour.

Yet when pressed you don't seem to have any problem with one of these
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,071
Grendel said:
He was standing up for women and their rights of expression in a religion that views women as inferior. This is saying a lot about you and none of it is good sadly
Click to expand...

Just fuck off. Don't try and project your thinly veiled racism on to me.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,072
dubed said:
No, I see race as a social construct.
Click to expand...

Apologies, I’d misread your tone to think you were sceptical.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,073
Grendel said:
He was standing up for women
Click to expand...

Part of him always is
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Deleted member 11652 and Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,074
PVA said:
Just fuck off. Don't try and project your thinly veiled racism on to me.
Click to expand...

You’ve admitted Muslim women have zero rights and living under male oppression and the burka has to be worn if the man insists on it

Own it you nasty little man
 
Reactions: SomersetSB

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,075
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The consensus seems to be he made some dickish comments about Muslims. That and the Tories more broadly have a problem with Islamophobia and general anti-Muslim sentiment that by proportion of membership is far bigger than the anti-Semitism complaints in Labour.

Yet when pressed you don't seem to have any problem with one of these
Click to expand...

This 100%. The polling of Tory members/voters attitudes to Muslims is eye watering.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Ian1779, skybluetony176 and 1 other person
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,076
Grendel said:
You’ve admitted Muslim women have zero rights and living under male oppression and the burka has to be worn if the man insists on it

Own it you nasty little man
Click to expand...

Fuck off you utter c**t.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,077
PVA said:
Fuck off you utter c**t.
Click to expand...

think this is acceptable PVA?

Woman beheaded after being warned to wear the burqa

Three young women have been killed – one beheaded – in Indian-controlled Kashmir, days after posters appeared in the state ordering Muslim women to wear burqas.
www.google.co.uk
 
Reactions: SomersetSB
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,078
Grendel said:
You’ve admitted Muslim women have zero rights and living under male oppression and the burka has to be worn if the man insists on it

Own it you nasty little man
Click to expand...

On the issues in the Tory party what are your thoughts on the views of Javid and Warsi on the Singh investigation?

Baroness Warsi ‘vindicated’ as Tory Islamophobia report criticises PM Johnson | Evening Standard
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,079
Fine by PVA - I’m sure all U.K. women have a choice

Woman dragged and beaten for daring to dance and pull off her hijab

A crowd cheered as the woman was attacked in the street by a man.
www.google.co.uk
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,080
Grendel said:
think this is acceptable PVA?

Woman beheaded after being warned to wear the burqa

Three young women have been killed – one beheaded – in Indian-controlled Kashmir, days after posters appeared in the state ordering Muslim women to wear burqas.
www.google.co.uk
Click to expand...

Yes it's perfectly acceptable, you got me.

Of course it's not ffs.

Nothing I've said suggests it is acceptable or that I think it's acceptable.

You think antisemitism is deplorable yet think Islamophobia is freedom of speech or some shit.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,081
PVA said:
Yes it's perfectly acceptable, you got me.

Of course it's not ffs.

Nothing I've said suggests it is acceptable or that I think it's acceptable.

You think antisemitism is deplorable yet think Islamophobia is freedom of speech or some shit.
Click to expand...

you think women in the U.K. have to look like freaks in the street even if they loath it and no one should help them m

shame on you
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,082
Grendel said:
you think women in the U.K. have to look like freaks in the street even if they loath it and no one should help them m

shame on you
Click to expand...

How fucking difficult is it for you to say Islamophobia is bad?

Can you bring yourself to say it?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,083
PVA said:
How fucking difficult is it for you to say Islamophobia is bad?

Can you bring yourself to say it?
Click to expand...

How is it difficult to say women in a Muslim world are forced to wear clothes they despise and you believe this is acceptable

Not one poster on here is backing you. You are exposed and it’s an ugly look.

Own it - everyone can see you for what you are now
 
Reactions: SomersetSB
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,084
Grendel said:
How is it difficult to say women in a Muslim world are forced to wear clothes they despise and you believe this is acceptable

Not one poster on here is backing you. You are exposed and it’s an ugly look.

Own it - everyone can see you for what you are now
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Several people have said that Johnson's comments were appalling.

Still can't bring yourself to say Islamophobia is bad can you.

'own it'.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,085
PVA said:
What are you talking about? Several people have said that Johnson's comments were appalling.

Still can't bring yourself to say Islamophobia is bad can you.

'own it'.
Click to expand...

Ive had enough - all my children are female. In your sad distorted male dominated world if I was a Muslim man and made them wear stupid ridiculous clothes from a mediaeval world and forced them To say they liked it even if there was a way of banning it you’d say no make them wear it

If I was a white next door neighbour who saw them crying every day as they went to school you’d say from your white ivory tower I’m islamaphobic

On ignore - gave you a chance you bigoted moronic fuckwit but that’s it
 
Reactions: SomersetSB

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,086
Thank god he’s on ignore now I’m off for a beer to chill out
 
Reactions: SomersetSB
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,087
Grendel said:
Ive had enough - all my children are female. In your sad distorted male dominated world if I was a Muslim man and made them wear stupid ridiculous clothes from a mediaeval world and forced them To say they liked it even if there was a way of banning it you’d say no make them wear it

If I was a white next door neighbour who saw them crying every day as they went to school you’d say from your white ivory tower I’m islamaphobic

On ignore - gave you a chance you bigoted moronic fuckwit but that’s it
Click to expand...

If you actually read what I had written you would see that I don't agree with it. I literally said I don't agree with it.

And you STILL can't admit that Islamophobia is bad. It's a very simple question. Very illuminating you won't answer.

And happy for you to put me on ignore. Now fuck off you racist c**t.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,088
How have I missed the fun going on here!?
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,089
PVA said:
'it's ok that he made disparaging remarks about Muslims because it wasn't technically racist'

The Tory Defence Force are really clutching at straws here.
Click to expand...
Frankly I am astonished and saddened people defending Johnson’s comments.
 
Reactions: hill83 and PVA
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,090
Deleted member 9744 said:
Frankly I am astonished and saddened people defending Johnson’s comments.
Click to expand...

By and large they're not - simply the interpretation of them. But let's not go around that one again.
 
Reactions: Grendel
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,091
dubed said:
By and large they're not - simply the interpretation of them. But let's not go around that one again.
Click to expand...

@dubed I know you're not like Grendel, can you please just admit that Islamophobia is bad so we can put that one to bed and move on
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,092
shmmeee said:
I think offering higher pay to a profession spread pretty evenly geographically across the country is a pretty good idea in a recession where demand has dipped severely.

I don’t believe in using economics to mete out some kind of perceived “justice”, I want it to make the economy work as well as possible.

As you say the private sector is on its arse and can’t kick start the economy itself, so the broad shoulders of government have to step in.
Click to expand...

Nope, that wasn’t my point. Struggling businesses who are losing money or have greater expenses aren’t going to increase their staff’s wages.

The Government finds itself in a similar position. Less tax income, more expenditure and so on. So increasing the wages of public sector staff isn’t going to be a good idea at this moment in time.

The Government is already toying with taxes raises to pay for the pandemic. Why would it elect to increase its deficit?

If the economy bounces back as is being forecasted, I’d be all up for giving a windfall pay rise to public sector workers.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,093
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Nope, that wasn’t my point. Struggling businesses who are losing money or have greater expenses aren’t going to increase their staff’s wages.

The Government finds itself in a similar position. Less tax income, more expenditure and so on. So increasing the wages of public sector staff isn’t going to be a good idea at this moment in time.

The Government is already toying with taxes raises to pay for the pandemic. Why would it elect to increase its deficit?

If the economy bounces back as is being forecasted, I’d be all up for giving a windfall pay rise to public sector workers.
Click to expand...

You’ve got it ass backwards. The economy is on its arse because spending is down because the economy is on its arse. Raising taxes and depressing wages depresses spending even more putting the economy further on its arse.

We need people to spend money to create jobs so people have more money to spend, so that we can then tax the excess once business is profitable.

If government starts sucking money in the private sector will have to lose even more. That would be utter madness.

As I said, the fact wages aren’t increasing in the private sector is exactly why government has to increase them. Who else will? Are you suggesting private households and business should be saddled with expensive debt and risk going under costing even more jobs? Why?

How can taking money out of the economy during a recession ever work?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,094
Further to the above, we’re paying record lows right now to service our debt. Cutting the recovery off at the knees in service of that is just nuts.

 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • May 25, 2021
  • #4,095
shmmeee said:
You’ve got it ass backwards. The economy is on its arse because spending is down because the economy is on its arse. Raising taxes and depressing wages depresses spending even more putting the economy further on its arse.

We need people to spend money to create jobs so people have more money to spend, so that we can then tax the excess once business is profitable.

If government starts sucking money in the private sector will have to lose even more. That would be utter madness.

As I said, the fact wages aren’t increasing in the private sector is exactly why government has to increase them. Who else will? Are you suggesting private households and business should be saddled with expensive debt and risk going under costing even more jobs? Why?

How can taking money out of the economy during a recession ever work?
Click to expand...

Let’s stay on topic here. My argument is very much the Government has increased its deficit with its response to COVID and that needs to managed. Therefore, increasing public sector pay by more than the 1% it already has isn’t a sound idea at this moment in time.

It’s furlough scheme has kept people in jobs at a huge cost. That cost needs to be paid for and the Government has increased corporate tax, frozen the tax thresholds and could even increase the tax rate too. Again, increasing the day-to-day costs of the government doesn’t seem sensible at this moment in time.
 
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