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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,021
Otis said:
Sorry if this has already been posted.

Do love a bit of Johnathan Pie

Click to expand...
Missed that
Brilliant
 
Reactions: Otis

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,022
fatso said:
It's a bit complicated, but under fractional reserve banking, a bank can borrow 10 million pounds (for example) from another bank at a ridiculously low rate called the LIBOR rate (London inter bank operating rate although this has just changed to the SOFR , secured overnight financial rate)

The borrowing bank can then lend (or invest) that money up to 8 times its value (the fraction from fractional reserve banking) and charge everyone its lending to a far higher rate than it originally borrowed at.

So they borrow £10 million and on the strength of that, they can lend £80million
And then charge interest on the £80 million even though £70million never even existed.
(It's all to do with the calculated risk of defaulting)

You have to understand that banks don't deal with money, they deal with RISK

That's why it's often so hard to qualify for high loans and mortgages.

The real crazy fucked up thing is that the original £10million that was borrowed never actually existed, it was part of the £80 million pounds that the lending bank was allowed to carry on its books when IT originally borrowed £10million from someone else previously!!!

So in banking, there is a theoretical unending supply of money. Banks are only kept in check by inflation rates and interest rates, which, if they get out of hand leads to lenders defaulting and the banks RISK getting too high.
So for banks the question is, how greedy can we be without our RISK becoming too high

As for savers, well the banks don't give a shiny rats shit for savers, the banks offer that service at a loss, as they are legally obliged to do in order to be called banks, and then be allowed access to the inter bank lending rates, and be able to operate under the fractional reserve banking process.

That's very simplistic but I hope it helps.
Click to expand...

Minor bit of pedantry, it's SONIA rather than LIBOR these days.

There is some stuff that goes on in mutuals, where there's a degree of balancing saving and lending, but it's obviously not one in, one out.

Provisioning (i.e. the amount held against debt) is still very much a hot button, tightly regulated thing where I am. As it bloody well should be too, given past horrors!

Edit: sorry, missed the SOFR thing. Not heard of it called that before...
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,023
Sky Blue Pete said:
Missed that
Brilliant
Click to expand...
Even if only a 10th of what he said was correct, it's still outrageous
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,024
fatso said:
Try explaining to them why there's a need for so many food banks while people are arguing over whether a woman can be born with a penis.
Click to expand...
You're going to have to explain to me how those two things are linked
 
Reactions: MalcSB and Sick Boy

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,025
duffer said:
Minor bit of pedantry, it's SONIA rather than LIBOR these days.

There is some stuff that goes on in mutuals, where there's a degree of balancing saving and lending, but it's obviously not one in, one out.

Provisioning (i.e. the amount held against debt) is still very much a hot button, tightly regulated thing where I am. As it bloody well should be too, given past horrors!

Edit: sorry, missed the SOFR thing. Not heard of it called that before...
Click to expand...
It's called that cos they can magically find money down the back of the SOFR
 
Reactions: MalcSB

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,026
chiefdave said:
You're going to have to explain to me how those two things are linked
Click to expand...

Women don’t have cocks so you have to go to the office.

This really isn’t hard Dave.

Actually there’s some sense here. Can’t have patriarchal gender roles if the man stays at home.
 
Reactions: chiefdave and wingy

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,027
alexccfc99 said:
People need to be careful what they wish for in that respect

Had PR been a thing in the 70s you'd have had numerous National Front MP's in the commons, likewise with the BNP in the mid 00's

FPTP has it's drawbacks, however it does mostly keep crackpot/extremist candidates and parties out of elected office
Click to expand...
But it can be looked at differently.

I've already had a few people say "well they only won four seats so we don't need to worry about them'. And that's what increases their popularity until all of sudden they ARE getting elected and you're left wondering "HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!" It's a warning sign that you need to take heed of and having PR in one of the chambers provides the means for people to take that threat seriously. Politicians and media can give more scrutiny and pick apart their beliefs/policies before they suddenly find that they're in charge. Of course there is the risk that for some dealing with that would just mean lurching more towards their position, but they don't that under the current system as well.

Similarly they seem complacent because Labour won a huge majority, whereas IMO it's a very fragile majority not based on increased belief in the party or its policies. It's based on wanting Tories out and Reform splitting the vote in many cases. Given incumbent govt invariably end up less popular I think Labour are going to have to do an exceptional job to retain power at the next GE, and even if every single metric improved significantly they would still only have a slim majority.
 
Last edited: Jul 7, 2024
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,028
Otis said:
Even if only a 10th of what he said was correct, it's still outrageous
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it was all true
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,029
chiefdave said:
You're going to have to explain to me how those two things are linked
Click to expand...
Omg, please tell me your not serious!!!
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 6, 2024
  • #41,030
duffer said:
Minor bit of pedantry, it's SONIA rather than LIBOR these days.

There is some stuff that goes on in mutuals, where there's a degree of balancing saving and lending, but it's obviously not one in, one out.

Provisioning (i.e. the amount held against debt) is still very much a hot button, tightly regulated thing where I am. As it bloody well should be too, given past horrors!

Edit: sorry, missed the SOFR thing. Not heard of it called that before...
Click to expand...
SONIA refers to sterling transactions only.

Sorry if you already know that.
 
Reactions: duffer

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,031
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But it can be looked at differently.

I've already had a few people say "well they only won four seats those so we don''t need to worry about them'. And that's what increases their popularity until all of sudden they ARE getting elected nd you're left wondering "HOW DID THT HAPPEN?!" It's a warning sign that you need to take heed of and having PR in one of the chambers provides the means for people to take that threat seriously. Politicians and media can give more scrutiny and pick apat their beliefs/policies before they suddenly find that their in charge. Of course there is the risk that for some dealing with that would just mean lurching more towards their position, but they don't that under the current system as well.

Similarly they seem complacent because Labour won a huge majority, whereas IMO it's a very fragile majority not based on increased belief in the party or its policies. It's based on wanting Tories out and Reform splitting the vote in many cases. Given incumbent govt invariably end up less popular I think Labour are going to have to do an exceptional job to retain power at the next GE, and even if every single metric improved significantly they would still only have a slim majority.
Click to expand...

Two points of order:

1. You don’t have to mimic the position to solve the issue.
2. If the SpAds have not picked up on the vote spread and suggest doing the same again then they’ve got rocks in their head. Besides, 5 years to change the perception.
 
Reactions: stupot07

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,032
SBAndy said:
Two points of order:

1. You don’t have to mimic the position to solve the issue.
2. If the SpAds have not picked up on the vote spread and suggest doing the same again then they’ve got rocks in their head. Besides, 5 years to change the perception.
Click to expand...

Also you had a fired up reform vote and a suppressed Labour vote. No one is pissing about with greens and Islamist bigots if there’s a narrative around the far right getting in.
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,033
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But it can be looked at differently.

I've already had a few people say "well they only won four seats so we don't need to worry about them'. And that's what increases their popularity until all of sudden they ARE getting elected and you're left wondering "HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!" It's a warning sign that you need to take heed of and having PR in one of the chambers provides the means for people to take that threat seriously. Politicians and media can give more scrutiny and pick apart their beliefs/policies before they suddenly find that they're in charge. Of course there is the risk that for some dealing with that would just mean lurching more towards their position, but they don't that under the current system as well.

Similarly they seem complacent because Labour won a huge majority, whereas IMO it's a very fragile majority not based on increased belief in the party or its policies. It's based on wanting Tories out and Reform splitting the vote in many cases. Given incumbent govt invariably end up less popular I think Labour are going to have to do an exceptional job to retain power at the next GE, and even if every single metric improved significantly they would still only have a slim majority.
Click to expand...
Your last paragraph is entirely irrelevant - all that matters is the number of seats. Well, that’s the response that every post I’ve made suggesting the same has received.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,034
chiefdave said:
You're going to have to explain to me how those two things are linked
Click to expand...
Questioning priorities.
 
Reactions: fatso

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,035
Not sure bailing people waiting to be deported is going to A) Do anything other than encourage more crossings and B) Win more votes next time round.

I'm not suggesting Rwanda is the answer, but this is a dangerous start from Starmer.

Last two migrants bound for Rwanda to be bailed, home secretary says

New Prime Minister Keir Starmer confirms the scheme is now "dead and buried".
www.bbc.co.uk
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,036
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Not sure bailing people waiting to be deported is going to A) Do anything other than encourage more crossings and B) Win more votes next time round.

I'm not suggesting Rwanda is the answer, but this is a dangerous start from Starmer.

Last two migrants bound for Rwanda to be bailed, home secretary says

New Prime Minister Keir Starmer confirms the scheme is now "dead and buried".
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
It’s a continuation of the previous government’s policy where 218 were bailed. What would you have done differently?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,037
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Not sure bailing people waiting to be deported is going to A) Do anything other than encourage more crossings and B) Win more votes next time round.

I'm not suggesting Rwanda is the answer, but this is a dangerous start from Starmer.

Last two migrants bound for Rwanda to be bailed, home secretary says

New Prime Minister Keir Starmer confirms the scheme is now "dead and buried".
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

The first 218 didn’t make any difference though?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,038
I believe somebody asked for evidence that Reform voters cared more about immigration than tax?

What do Reform UK voters believe? | YouGov

YouGov shines a light on the backers of the insurgent party
yougov.co.uk
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,039
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I believe somebody asked for evidence that Reform voters cared more about immigration than tax?

What do Reform UK voters believe? | YouGov

YouGov shines a light on the backers of the insurgent party
yougov.co.uk
Click to expand...

77% believing in the death penalty is a particular highlight.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,040
Sick Boy said:
It’s a continuation of the previous government’s policy where 218 were bailed. What would you have done differently?
Click to expand...
What that report doesn't say is whether their asylum application had been rejected, or whether they're waiting for a decision. If it's the former then it's where it does fall down though isn't it, because what then happens is those people will undoubtedly bugger off! The approach should be actually deal with claims and appeals in a decent time frame, and then actually take action where needed instead of telling people to report at a certain date.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,041
SBAndy said:
77% believing in the death penalty is a particular highlight.
Click to expand...
Curious that this was missing from the manifesto
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,042
I'd like to unpack what they believe to be traditional British values too. Tolerance? Respect? Open mindedness? A sense of fairness and justice?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Otis, Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and 2 others

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,043
Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd like to unpack what they believe to be traditional British values too. Tolerance? Respect? Open mindedness? A sense of fairness and justice?
Click to expand...
Calling a spade a spade?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,044
Also quite like Britain's future relationship with the EU should be looser than it is now. How much looser do they want it?!?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,045
Sick Boy said:
Calling a spade a spade?
Click to expand...
The survey also found Reform voters to be much more highly educated than previously thought, with approximately 95% graduating from the University of Life, adding the comment ‘Screw Blockbusters!’ to the response box.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,046
Deleted member 5849 said:
Also quite like Britain's future relationship with the EU should be looser than it is now. How much looser do they want it?!?
Click to expand...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,047
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The survey also found Reform voters to be much more highly educated than previously thought, with approximately 95% graduating from the University of Life, adding the comment ‘Screw Blockbusters!’ to the response box.
Click to expand...

This is also interesting - I did admittedly to my surprise know of a couple of 20 year olds vote reform

How Reform UK won over so many Gen Z men

While the majority of young people plan to vote Green or Labour this week, support for Nigel Farage’s right-wing party is surging among 18- to 24-year-old men
www.dazeddigital.com
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,048
“No guys they’re all small state libertarians really promise!”

 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,049
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The survey also found Reform voters to be much more highly educated than previously thought, with approximately 95% graduating from the University of Life, adding the comment ‘Screw Blockbusters!’ to the response box.
Click to expand...

Also of course Richard Branson was as you sneeringly state educated at the university of life while towering intellects such as Priti Patel were not
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,050
Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd like to unpack what they believe to be traditional British values too. Tolerance? Respect? Open mindedness? A sense of fairness and justice?
Click to expand...
The ability to shout instructions slowly and loudly in English whilst holidaying abroad.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, wingy, torchomatic and 1 other person
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,051
shmmeee said:
“No guys they’re all small state libertarians really promise!”

View attachment 36711
Click to expand...
And yet they think too much is already spent on public services.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,052
Grendel said:
Also of course Richard Branson was as you sneeringly state educated at the university of life while towering intellects such as Priti Patel were not
Click to expand...
tbf, it's more the kind of person who puts that in their facebook profile, isn't it... which is usually put as some kind of reverse snobbery in itself, an active rejection of thinking. To avoid insulting or patronising friends who might lurk here nobody else in my immediate family has a degree other than me, it doesn't mean my Dad didn't work hard to have a decent job, it doesn't make him stupid either does it.

But he doesn't feel the need to say he was educated at the University of Life!

I mean, people can be skilled in all manner of areas can't they, and some are more rewarded or recognised than others. That is part of the problem, as it happens, isn't it that nobody wants to pay for good care givers or nursery staff, to name but two example. They're two jobs I'd be utterly shit at!
 
Reactions: MalcSB, ovduk78 and Brighton Sky Blue
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,053
Grendel said:
Also of course Richard Branson was as you sneeringly state educated at the university of life while towering intellects such as Priti Patel were not
Click to expand...
The comment is aimed at the type of person who would state ‘university of life’ as opposed to just not going to uni. A bit like the Chris Finch reference I was aiming for
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,054
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I believe somebody asked for evidence that Reform voters cared more about immigration than tax?

What do Reform UK voters believe? | YouGov

YouGov shines a light on the backers of the insurgent party
yougov.co.uk
Click to expand...

Crikey. A voting system where 14% of the vote gets 5 seats suddenly sounds very sensible indeed.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, torchomatic and shmmeee

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 7, 2024
  • #41,055
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Not sure bailing people waiting to be deported is going to A) Do anything other than encourage more crossings and B) Win more votes next time round.

I'm not suggesting Rwanda is the answer, but this is a dangerous start from Starmer.

Last two migrants bound for Rwanda to be bailed, home secretary says

New Prime Minister Keir Starmer confirms the scheme is now "dead and buried".
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Not very good at comprehension, are you?

218 bailed under Conservatives
The last 2 to be bailed under the new Government.
 
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