Do you want to discuss boring politics? (30 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 30, 2024

Grendel said:
You really sound like some 18 year old Marxist. Thank fuck people like you are on the fringes of opinion

Do people need to own more than one home? No.
Do businesses need to own residential property? No.

It's about fairness and ensuring everyone has a chance of the security of owning their own home. Allowing individuals and companies to own huge numbers of properties and in the process price out normal people then that is wrong and needs to change. And the only way to change it is to prevent them from doing so.

In the past you wouldn't have been allowed to own your home because some landed gentry wouldn't let you. You'd have had to rent the land from them to have the right to work it. But we progressed to allow land ownership by more people and thus more people able to have better lives. I'm taking that to its logical conclusion.

shmmeee · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
Huge IF.
Alternatively what if we get expensive vulnerable energy and our climate continues to be affected by US, China And India continuing to burn fossil fuels as they make our consumer goods for us?

As with EVs your problem is looking at tech that’s the worst it’ll ever be and assuming that’s the best it’ll ever get. First principles getting energy locally without fuel will always be cheaper than getting it with fuel. Solar and batteries will win, because it will be so cheap to put everywhere where it’s needed. Costs are continually beating analyst projections and we haven’t even hit full market scale yet. We keep finding large lithium deposits and will switch away to silicon and graphene or whatever in the future, for every current concern (price range charge speed metal use) there’s already promising alternatives in the pipeline. Nuclear will win once we take it seriously, most of the cost is based around our fears rather than technological limits and again we’re making huge progress anyway in the tech.

The entire process of digging up stuff from the ground, transporting it, then burning it in a complex machine is archaic and full of inefficiencies. Like steam engines or row boats. Whether we get there in time to make a difference to the climate or not, I guarantee that in 50 years time the world is run on clean energy and transport.

shmmeee · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Do people need to own more than one home? No.
Do businesses need to own residential property? No.

It's about fairness and ensuring everyone has a chance of the security of owning their own home. Allowing individuals and companies to own huge numbers of properties and in the process price out normal people then that is wrong and needs to change. And the only way to change it is to prevent them from doing so.

In the past you wouldn't have been allowed to own your home because some landed gentry wouldn't let you. You'd have had to rent the land from them to have the right to work it. But we progressed to allow land ownership by more people and thus more people able to have better lives. I'm taking that to its logical conclusion.

What if I work away for some of the year or even some of the week? Lots of people live in London in the week in a small room then travel back at weekends for the family, or work seasonally somewhere.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Or we could lead and change opinions/show the benefits so others follow.

Or we could just give up because other bigger polluters currently aren't bothering.

Why do you have so little belief in our country and doing it down?

How are we going to benefit if everybody else doesnt hit net zero at the same time?

why should it be for the UK to lead and change opinion - at 1% of global CO2 emissions? Why not the beloved EU, the US China.

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

Just checked. It’s over 140 countries that have committed to achieving net zero. Including China, USA and India.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
What if I work away for some of the year or even some of the week? Lots of people live in London in the week in a small room then travel back at weekends for the family, or work seasonally somewhere.

That’s ok so long as everyone has somewhere to live first

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
You missed the point. It was about deciding rights on an arbitrary marker.

An 18yo is an adult You don't say they are new as an adult so can only have a fraction of the rights for a few years until they've proved worthy of them.

If you're a new employee, you're still an employee and so should therefore have the same rights as every other employee.

You made the comparison about an 18 year old and a full adult.
It’s no5 about an arbitrary marker, certainly nothing to do with age. It’s about a short period of time for either employer or employee to realise that this new relationship isn’t working out.

Perhaps you think people should marry after their first date?

Lack of a probationary period would certainly have made me less likely to take a chance on hiring someone who was marginal in terms of qualifications or experience.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
Just checked. It’s over 140 countries that have committed to achieving net zero. Including China, USA and India.

By when?

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
Just what impact will UK hitting net zero have. Reduce global CO2 by 1%. Probably less if some of that net zero is achieved by a significant amount of our manufacturing continuing to be outsourced to China.

Even if you are right that we can't have any impact on climate change (and I don't think you are) you can't avoid the fact that climate change is and will increasingly have an impact.

The impact of more extreme weather on our lives and the economy will increase dramatically and it is madness not to have a plan for it.

Shouting stop the boats when whole countries will essentially become uninhabitable is going to become even more more futile than as at present.

Philosoraptor · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
If there was a God worth praying to, there wouldn’t be war and pestilence, suffering and poverty.
The usual counter is God gave us free will. All I can say is that was a fucking stupid thing to give by a supposedly omniscient being.

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
How are we going to benefit if everybody else doesnt hit net zero at the same time?

why should it be for the UK to lead and change opinion - at 1% of global CO2 emissions? Why not the beloved EU, the US China.

You’ll be pleased to know that we aren’t leading the way. Many European countries are on target to hit net zero long before us.

In answer to as why we should do it the answer is simple. It’s economically illiterate not to. The countries driving the industry will be the ones to benefit economically the most.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Or we could lead and change opinions/show the benefits so others follow.

Or we could just give up because other bigger polluters currently aren't bothering.

Why do you have so little belief in our country and doing it down?

Answer to last question - experience.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
You’ll be pleased to know that we aren’t leading the way. Many European countries are on target to hit net zero long before us.

In answer to as why we should do it the answer is simple. It’s economically illiterate not to. The countries driving the industry will be the ones to benefit economically the most.

On target? Like this? The blue dotted line is EU Member States projections.

Source - EU Commission

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
By when?

All different commitments so it’s difficult to give you a definitive answer but basically the biggest polluters are looking to achieve it by 2050 or 2060.

The information is out there, you can educate yourself should you choose instead of listening to the moronic drivel from the right and accepting it as fact.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
All different commitments so it’s difficult to give you a definitive answer but basically the biggest polluters are looking to achieve it by 2050 or 2060.

The information is out there, you can educate yourself should you choose instead of listening to the moronic drivel from the right and accepting it as fact.

I have, see above.

Delboy was looking to be a millionaire this time next year. No guarantee that it would happen though ( fortuitous antique pocket watch not withstanding).

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
I have, see above.

So you accept that we’re not doing it in isolation then so there is a point.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
So you accept that we’re not doing it in isolation then so there is a point.

I don’t think we should be world leaders and have no confidence in Labours plans. I do not believe we will have cheaper and zero carbon electricity by 1 January 2030. The EU Commission report indicates that the EU will miss 2050 by a long way - and that’s before the shift to the right and the energy cost pips squeaking.

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
I don’t think we should be world leaders and have no confidence in Labours plans. I do not believe we will have cheaper and zero carbon electricity in the next 5 years.

Of course we should be world leaders. It’s moronic to not want that. We have cheaper zero carbon electricity now. The price to the consumer is skewed by the energy price cap and the effect of fossil fuel generated energy on it. The sooner we phase out fossil fuel energy the more we’ll feel the benefits as consumers.

Ian1779 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
It must be difficult for them to talk about women’s only spaces when they are not clear what a woman is.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
Of course we should be world leaders. It’s moronic to not want that. We have cheaper zero carbon electricity now. The price to the consumer is skewed by the energy price cap and the effect of fossil fuel generated energy on it. The sooner we phase out fossil fuel energy the more we’ll feel the benefits as consumers.

What should have happened is that the electricity providers should not have been entitled to charge at the highest cos5 of production, nor forced down the blind alley of smart meters.

rob9872 · Jun 30, 2024

I wonder how many of you who are being holier than thou on climate change, are taking a trip abroad or have already done so this year. If you are, then anything else you add is nothing but hypocrisy.

PVA · Jun 30, 2024

Oh dear, what are they like

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
What should have happened is that the electricity providers should not have been entitled to charge at the highest cos5 of production, nor forced down the blind alley of smart meters.

Careful. Grendull will be along in a moment to accuse you of sounding like an 18 year old Marxist.

It’s good to see you making the case for being world leading in achieving net zero though, given that will mean that energy providers charging at the highest cost of production will mean that they’re charging at the current lowest cost of production.

Skybluekyle · Jun 30, 2024

Grendel said:
The US and China have never looked at us for inspiration

China, I agree, but the US is pretty much a direct descendant of the UK. Their Bill of Rights was inspired by the UK's Bill of Rights 1689.

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2024

rob9872 said:
I wonder how many of you who are being holier than thou on climate change, are taking a trip abroad or have already done so this year. If you are, then anything else you add is nothing but hypocrisy.

Hardly. We all have a carbon footprint by simply being alive. Do literally anything you do to remain alive and you’re a hypocrite if you want to be pedantic about it. The issue is we’re out of balance. I don’t eat meat and consume barely any dairy as I still eat the odd chocolate bar. Don’t recall the exact figures but I can pretty much fly to Spain and back 2-3 times an year and still personally have a carbon footprint smaller than a meat eater who doesn’t have foreign holidays. Specifically on flights commercial passenger flights equate to less than half of co2 emissions caused by aircraft. When you start looking at that from co2 per mile per passenger your personal co2 per mile is even lower again. I think when you work out long distance travel only going by train is greener so long as you’re taking commercial and not private flights. If we green our energy, alter our diets and promote carbon sequestration by reforesting no one will have to feel guilty about flying as the balance will be restored.

Skybluekyle · Jun 30, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
Hardly. We all have a carbon footprint by simply being alive. Do literally anything you do to remain alive and you’re a hypocrite if you want to be pedantic about it. The issue is we’re out of balance. I don’t eat meat and consume barely any dairy as I still eat the odd chocolate bar. Don’t recall the exact figures but I can pretty much fly to Spain and back 2-3 times an year and still personally have a carbon footprint smaller than a meat eater who doesn’t have foreign holidays. Specifically on flights commercial passenger flights equate to less than half of co2 emissions caused by aircraft. When you start looking at that from co2 per mile per passenger your personal co2 per mile is even lower again. I think when you work out long distance travel only going by train is greener so long as you’re taking commercial and not private flights. If we green our energy, alter our diets and promote carbon sequestration by reforesting no one will have to feel guilty about flying as the balance will be restored.

I mean, we all breath out carbon dioxide, so we literally contribute to greenhouse gases just by breathing...

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
You made the comparison about an 18 year old and a full adult.
It’s no5 about an arbitrary marker, certainly nothing to do with age. It’s about a short period of time for either employer or employee to realise that this new relationship isn’t working out.

Perhaps you think people should marry after their first date?

Lack of a probationary period would certainly have made me less likely to take a chance on hiring someone who was marginal in terms of qualifications or experience.

I said that some sort of method to ensure incompetent or lazy workers can be removed needs to be there.

My main point was pretty much all other rights should be afforded to all employees from day one.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
How are we going to benefit if everybody else doesnt hit net zero at the same time?

why should it be for the UK to lead and change opinion - at 1% of global CO2 emissions? Why not the beloved EU, the US China.

Well doing something is better than nothing. By its very nature doing nothing will be worse.

So you don't think the UK should lead and change opinion? I assume this is your stance on every issue and we should just abolish the Foreign office as there's no point in international diplomacy whatsoever.

Other nations like France aren't trying their hardest to stop the small boats, so why should we bother?

Sick Boy · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well doing something is better than nothing. By its very nature doing nothing will be worse.

So you don't think the UK should lead and change opinion? I assume this is your stance on every issue and we should just abolish the Foreign office as there's no point in international diplomacy whatsoever.

Other nations like France aren't trying their hardest to stop the small boats, so why should we bother?

France aren’t going to try their hardest to stop boats, much in the same way those where others leave to arrive in Europe don’t. The number of people crossing the channel is tiny compared to those landing elsewhere in Europe.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 30, 2024

shmmeee said:
What if I work away for some of the year or even some of the week? Lots of people live in London in the week in a small room then travel back at weekends for the family, or work seasonally somewhere.

Knew someone would bring that up.

I would say the answer is along the lines of shared ownership with others in similar situations, though I feel sure there will be other solutions.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well doing something is better than nothing. By its very nature doing nothing will be worse.

So you don't think the UK should lead and change opinion? I assume this is your stance on every issue and we should just abolish the Foreign office as there's no point in international diplomacy whatsoever.

Other nations like France aren't trying their hardest to stop the small boats, so why should we bother?

I think France would quite like to encourage the small boats.

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Knew someone would bring that up.

I would say the answer is along the lines of shared ownership with others in similar situations, though I feel sure there will be other solutions.

Which planet are you living on?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
Which planet are you living on?

So you think shared ownership isn't a thing that already exists?

MalcSB · Jun 30, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I said that some sort of method to ensure incompetent or lazy workers can be removed needs to be there.

My main point was pretty much all other rights should be afforded to all employees from day one.

There is already a method, it called a probationary period.

Sick Boy · Jun 30, 2024

MalcSB said:
I think France would quite like to encourage the small boats.

They won’t it encourage it but there’s next to no incentive to stop them now that the UK is a third country.

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