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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,991
Winny the Bish said:
Question for the group: am I a woke lefty or a centrist dad?

View attachment 36479
Click to expand...


A cross between Thatcher and Hitler iirc
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,992
Nuskyblue said:
Tight fisted wads won't pay for a new supply from the DNO by the sounds of it. A fairly common occurrence in my experience. There are 3 or 4 charging points around Earlsdon that I can't connect to, either because they are not on or are not on the app that you use to pay!
Click to expand...
Trouble is, like parking, there are lots of apps. What really pisses me off is when you need to use an app and there is either no mobile signal or crap mobile data speeds which is often the case on the Hampshire/ Dorset coast.

At least with petrol you can use a credit card.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,993
All new public charge points have to accept payment by card... its only the older stations that are app only
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,994
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
All new public charge points have to accept payment by card... its only the older stations that are app only
Click to expand...
Well that’s a step in the right direction.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,995
MalcSB said:
Trouble is, like parking, there are lots of apps. What really pisses me off is when you need to use an app and there is either no mobile signal or crap mobile data speeds which is often the case on the Hampshire/ Dorset coast.

At least with petrol you can use a credit card.
Click to expand...
It's a pain in the arse to pay by app in almost any car park anywhere. The option of using your card should be made a legal necessity when these machines are manufactured. It sounds a backwards step but at least it works . Done in 20 seconds.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and MalcSB

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,996
Oh what a surprise


It's the Tories in disguise. Even the Tories realised the fallacy of PFI
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,997
fernandopartridge said:
Oh what a surprise
Click to expand...

fernandopartridge said:

It's the Tories in disguise. Even the Tories realised the fallacy of PFI
Click to expand...
https://archive.ph/jUJBR
 
Last edited: Jun 27, 2024
Reactions: clint van damme

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,998
Philosoraptor said:
https://archive.ph/jUJBR
Click to expand...
That’s a really interesting article. It seems that the Tories did recognise that PFI wasn’t a great idea, and fairly early on. But Blair and Brown promoted it and legislated to facilitate it, keeping investment off the public books. IIRC accountancy rule changes actually brought PFI back into the public books to add to the high rental payments, inflexibility of support services and developments on top of the common reduction in beds to keep the schemes “affordable” - which has helped create the problems that Labour are now promising to fix.

The observation about management consultants rang bells with me. In the 90s I attended two workshops facilitated by the same management consultants. The first was based on their analysis that there were too many beds in the area, the second - 12 months later- was predicated on their analysis that there were too few beds in the area.

It will be interesting to see how Labour getting into bed with captains of industry works out this time.
 
Reactions: nicksar

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #38,999
MalcSB said:
That’s a really interesting article. It seems that the Tories did recognise that PFI wasn’t a great idea, and fairly early on. But Blair and Brown promoted it and legislated to facilitate it, keeping investment off the public books. IIRC accountancy rule changes actually brought PFI back into the public books to add to the high rental payments, inflexibility of support services and developments on top of the common reduction in beds to keep the schemes “affordable” - which has helped create the problems that Labour are now promising to fix.

The observation about management consultants rang bells with me. In the 90s I attended two workshops facilitated by the same management consultants. The first was based on their analysis that there were too many beds in the area, the second - 12 months later- was predicated on their analysis that there were too few beds in the area.

It will be interesting to see how Labour getting into bed with captains of industry works out this time.
Click to expand...
The way it is designed to work out, maximum private profit and minimum public service.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,000
MalcSB said:
That’s a really interesting article. It seems that the Tories did recognise that PFI wasn’t a great idea, and fairly early on. But Blair and Brown promoted it and legislated to facilitate it, keeping investment off the public books. IIRC accountancy rule changes actually brought PFI back into the public books to add to the high rental payments, inflexibility of support services and developments on top of the common reduction in beds to keep the schemes “affordable” - which has helped create the problems that Labour are now promising to fix.

The observation about management consultants rang bells with me. In the 90s I attended two workshops facilitated by the same management consultants. The first was based on their analysis that there were too many beds in the area, the second - 12 months later- was predicated on their analysis that there were too few beds in the area.

It will be interesting to see how Labour getting into bed with captains of industry works out this time.
Click to expand...

PFI needs to get in the bin, people just need to grow up about borrowing to invest in infrastructure.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,001
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
All new public charge points have to accept payment by card... its only the older stations that are app only
Click to expand...
New ones should be but aren't. The ones going in around Coventry are app only and a lot of them are < 1 year old.

Most fast/rapid chargers take card along with a kidney. Boy are they expensive.
 
Reactions: wingy

nicksar

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,002
Going back approx 8 years I bought a car off and Indian doctor who worked at uhcw he was selling up and had managed to get a job in an Australian hospital,he said uhcw had to find £1 million a month to pay the PFI loans.
I was staggered tbh ,I don't know if it is actually the truth but what a disgusting state of affairs if true.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,003
nicksar said:
Going back approx 8 years I bought a car off and Indian doctor who worked at uhcw he was selling up and had managed to get a job in an Australian hospital,he said uhcw had to find £1 million a month to pay the PFI loans.
I was staggered tbh ,I don't know if it is actually the truth but what a disgusting state of affairs if true.
Click to expand...
Will the OBR need to publish an opinion on that?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,004
How are they so bad at this?


 

nicksar

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,005
MalcSB said:
Will the OBR need to publish an opinion on that?
Click to expand...
No idea Malc, I'm not as clued up as many of you on here on these matters,it just seems a recipe for failure to me.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,006
shmmeee said:
PFI needs to get in the bin, people just need to grow up about borrowing to invest in infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Too complex an argument to have in an election campaign, whereas PFI is extremely simple
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,007
nicksar said:
No idea Malc, I'm not as clued up as many of you on here on these matters,it just seems a recipe for failure to me.
Click to expand...
Well, they usually have something to say about increasing public borrowing and national debt.
 
Reactions: nicksar

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,008
nicksar said:
Going back approx 8 years I bought a car off and Indian doctor who worked at uhcw he was selling up and had managed to get a job in an Australian hospital,he said uhcw had to find £1 million a month to pay the PFI loans.
I was staggered tbh ,I don't know if it is actually the truth but what a disgusting state of affairs if true.
Click to expand...
The PFI costs at UHCW are pretty enormous and the operating company very inflexible when trying to change things. The last annual report shows £27m in mainly PFI interest and nearly £7m in mainly PFI capital charges. The doctor you mention was understating the PFI cost enormously.
Still, we can rest easy that the corridors are regularly painted to keep them the contractual white.
 
Reactions: nicksar

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,009
fernandopartridge said:
Too complex an argument to have in an election campaign, whereas PFI is extremely simple
Click to expand...
And extremely expensive.
 
Reactions: nicksar

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,010
shmmeee said:
The supply chain isn’t hugely different though a bit less mature. These are all silly complaints trying to justify not changing. Like we don’t ship ICE cars around the world or use parts from different places. The EU and US moving away from China is something that’s happening regardless.

You want to drive a less efficient, more polluting, noisier, more expensive car in twenty years crack on. Just don’t be surprised when everyone looks at you weird and you’re paying through the nose for the privilege.
Click to expand...
The problem is that, given the cost of EVs, it will probably be the average working man who will be paying through the nose to drive those more polluting, noisier cars. Just as is happening with your mate Khan’s ULEZ. The tiffs can afford compliant cars, the worse off can’t,
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,011
Nuskyblue said:
New ones should be but aren't. The ones going in around Coventry are app only and a lot of them are < 1 year old.

Most fast/rapid chargers take card along with a kidney. Boy are they expensive.
Click to expand...
They can often make EVs more expensive for a journey than an ICE, especially diesel.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,012
PVA said:
How are they so bad at this?


Click to expand...
That really is amateur.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,013
MalcSB said:
The problem is that, given the cost of EVs, it will probably be the average working man who will be paying through the nose to drive those more polluting, noisier cars. Just as is happening with your mate Khan’s ULEZ. The tiffs can afford compliant cars, the worse off can’t,
Click to expand...
If my 2010. diesel passes and was 3k 3 years ago I don't see the problem for Londoners yet at least?
 
Reactions: nicksar

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,014
wingy said:
If my 2010. diesel passes and was 3k 3 years ago I don't see the problem for Londoners yet at least?
Click to expand...
Tons of older cars qualify. I was reading an article in The Mail of all publications about it. Tons of old jaguars, BMW’s, Audi’s, Bentley continentals and at the other end of the scale any petrol mini. So in the case of the mini a 24 year old car is compliant.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2024
  • #39,015
skybluetony176 said:
Tons of older cars qualify. I was reading an article in The Mail of all publications about it. Tons of old jaguars, BMW’s, Audi’s, Bentley continentals and at the other end of the scale any petrol mini. So in the case of the mini a 24 year old car is compliant.
Click to expand...
Yep I guess the fear will be eventually things will tighten up who knows who'll be mayor by then?
 

nicksar

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,016
skybluetony176 said:
Tons of older cars qualify. I was reading an article in The Mail of all publications about it. Tons of old jaguars, BMW’s, Audi’s, Bentley continentals and at the other end of the scale any petrol mini. So in the case of the mini a 24 year old car is compliant.
Click to expand...
All classic cars over 40 years old are free of Ulez payments,a 5.2litre 1966 Dodge Charger is the way to go
 
Reactions: MalcSB, torchomatic and wingy

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,017
skybluetony176 said:
Tons of older cars qualify. I was reading an article in The Mail of all publications about it. Tons of old jaguars, BMW’s, Audi’s, Bentley continentals and at the other end of the scale any petrol mini. So in the case of the mini a 24 year old car is compliant.
Click to expand...
So basically ULEZ collects no money then. I guess Londoners are just whinging for nothing then.

Although this article says there were £218 million in unpaid fines.

Most drivers hit with £180 Ulez fine since expansion have failed to pay it

TfL says almost a million fines were ‘outstanding’ – or unpaid after a month – leaving it owed £218,316,553
www.standard.co.uk
 
Reactions: Grendel

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,018
wingy said:
If my 2010. diesel passes and was 3k 3 years ago I don't see the problem for Londoners yet at least?
Click to expand...
I wonder why the ULEZ was introduced then? If it affects no one. Except it does.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,019
MalcSB said:
I wonder why the ULEZ was introduced then? If it affects no one. Except it does.
Click to expand...

ULEZ is recognising the negative externality of car pollution and attributing a cost to this in the hope of influencing behavioural change.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,020
SBAndy said:
ULEZ is recognising the negative externality of car pollution and attributing a cost to this in the hope of influencing behavioural change.
Click to expand...
Or just raising revenue.

ULEZ expansion is more about money than clean air

Sadiq Khan’s ultra low emissions zone (ULEZ) expanded to cover all London boroughs this week. This regressive levy will cost drivers £12.50 a day and will not make significant headway in terms of cleaning up London’s air.
www.taxpayersalliance.com

I was responding to a post suggesting that hardly any cars are affected by it, which surely can’t be the case.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,021
SBAndy said:
ULEZ is recognising the negative externality of car pollution and attributing a cost to this in the hope of influencing behavioural change.
Click to expand...

Let those poor people people take the bus
 
Reactions: MalcSB

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,022
MalcSB said:
Or just raising revenue.

ULEZ expansion is more about money than clean air

Sadiq Khan’s ultra low emissions zone (ULEZ) expanded to cover all London boroughs this week. This regressive levy will cost drivers £12.50 a day and will not make significant headway in terms of cleaning up London’s air.
www.taxpayersalliance.com

I was responding to a post suggesting that hardly any cars are affected by it, which surely can’t be the case.
Click to expand...

Of course it does. Most diesels built before 2016 don’t qualify
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,023
MalcSB said:
Or just raising revenue.

ULEZ expansion is more about money than clean air

Sadiq Khan’s ultra low emissions zone (ULEZ) expanded to cover all London boroughs this week. This regressive levy will cost drivers £12.50 a day and will not make significant headway in terms of cleaning up London’s air.
www.taxpayersalliance.com

I was responding to a post suggesting that hardly any cars are affected by it, which surely can’t be the case.
Click to expand...

This is just a rant from the TPA, it’s not a serious critique of ULEZ, it’s a far right think tank FFS.

The aim of all clean air zones is cleaner air because the government lost a court case: ClientEarth, R (on the application of) v The Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs [2013] UKSC 25 (1 May 2013)
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,024
Duracell boy has woke up I see
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2024
  • #39,025
shmmeee said:
This is just a rant from the TPA, it’s not a serious critique of ULEZ, it’s a far right think tank FFS.

The aim of all clean air zones is cleaner air because the government lost a court case: ClientEarth, R (on the application of) v The Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs [2013] UKSC 25 (1 May 2013)
Click to expand...
The judiciary in general and especially the Supreme Court, introduced by Labour, is pretty left wing. The recent decision in relation to oil drilling in Surrey was yet another example of their bias and lack of common sense.
 
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