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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (36 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,536
Nick said:
What next? Somebody paying to have a filling at a dentist because they can't get in with the NHS one?

I am sure they will be paying the same taxes as everybody else.
Click to expand...
If you have to go private for health or dentistry, you should be allowed to claim the NHS tariff to offset the private cost. NHS services are supposed to be there and an entitlement.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,537
MalcSB said:
If you have to go private for health or dentistry, you should be allowed to claim the NHS tariff to offset the private cost. NHS services are supposed to be there and an entitlement.
Click to expand...

Happens in a lot of countries. It’s just this everything is free at the point of delivery here where it does t happen.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,538
Deleted member 9744 said:
That makes no sense.

It's not about the cost as far as i am concerned. I just don't agree with private education on principle nor private healthcare. These are services which should be available to everyone equally. Private education perpetuates inequality and privilege.
Click to expand...
If you have to go private for health or dentistry, you should be allowed to claim the NHS tariff to offset the private cost. NHS services are supposed to be there and an entitlement.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,539
torchomatic said:
View attachment 36266
Click to expand...
Sunak, Badenoch and Braverman all polling to lose their seats on that basis I just read.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,540
skybluetony176 said:
But that’s not the reality with schooling. People using private education are not doing it because their child is going to miss the start of term in state education if they don’t. Fair play to anyone willing to do it just don’t expect everyone else to subsidise the luxury with a tax break.
Click to expand...
maybe the tax break recognises that they are basically paying For education twice?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,541
MalcSB said:
maybe the tax break recognises that they are basically paying For education twice?
Click to expand...
Doubtful.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,542
MalcSB said:
If you have to go private for health or dentistry, you should be allowed to claim the NHS tariff to offset the private cost. NHS services are supposed to be there and an entitlement.
Click to expand...

Crazy idea, I know, but maybe if the sixth(?) wealthiest country in the world distributed its wealth slightly more equitably, there wouldn't be quite the same need for private health and dentistry.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, chiefdave and Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,543
duffer said:
Crazy idea, I know, but maybe if the sixth(?) wealthiest country in the world distributed its wealth slightly more equitably, there wouldn't be quite the same need for private health and dentistry.
Click to expand...
But it hasn’t we are where we are and the NHS isn’t providing the necessary capacity and won’t until the new Labour government gets NHS staff working loads of overtime. If that will be legal.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,544
duffer said:
Crazy idea, I know, but maybe if the sixth(?) wealthiest country in the world distributed its wealth slightly more equitably, there wouldn't be quite the same need for private health and dentistry.
Click to expand...
the state of access to dentists is exactly why any so-called 'imrpovements' in the wider NHS should be scrutinised to an inch of their lives. Imagine not being able to get an NHS doctor within 10 miles of your house...
 
Reactions: torchomatic

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,545
duffer said:
Crazy idea, I know, but maybe if the sixth(?) wealthiest country in the world distributed its wealth slightly more equitably, there wouldn't be quite the same need for private health and dentistry.
Click to expand...

There is in pretty much every country in the western world? Why do the uk think it’s a special case where people with wealth can’t have better services? Where else is this a thing?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,546
MalcSB said:
maybe the tax break recognises that they are basically paying For education twice?
Click to expand...

Nope, it's because of this...

"Private schools do not have to charge value added tax (VAT) on their fees because of a legal exemption for organisations providing education.

About half of England's private schools are also charities, so receive an 80% reduction on business rates (taxes on properties used for commercial purposes)."

Why was VAT added to private school fees and what difference has it made?

The government says "every single penny" raised by the policy will be spent on state schools.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Reactions: torchomatic

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,547
Deleted member 5849 said:
the state of access to dentists is exactly why any so-called 'imrpovements' in the wider NHS should be scrutinised to an inch of their lives. Imagine not being able to get an NHS doctor within 10 miles of your house...
Click to expand...

Blair and the Labour Party destroyed NHS dentistry
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,548
MalcSB said:
But it hasn’t we are where we are and the NHS isn’t providing the necessary capacity and won’t until the new Labour government gets NHS staff working loads of overtime. If that will be legal.
Click to expand...

"We are where we are" isn't really a compelling argument against change, is it?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,549
duffer said:
Nope, it's because of this...

"Private schools do not have to charge value added tax (VAT) on their fees because of a legal exemption for organisations providing education.

About half of England's private schools are also charities, so receive an 80% reduction on business rates (taxes on properties used for commercial purposes)."

Why was VAT added to private school fees and what difference has it made?

The government says "every single penny" raised by the policy will be spent on state schools.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
That doesn’t explain why education organisations are exempt.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,550
Grendel said:
Blair and the Labour Party destroyed NHS dentistry
Click to expand...
Well it was before that. I actually couldn't get myself registered with an NHS dentist once mine closed down, and that was under Major's government. 1992, gvernment cut fees to NHS dentists by 7%, that's where the root (no pun intended) cause is.
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,551
Nick said:
You keep saying about 60k take home, i have literally shown the workings out and it is based on 2 parents earning 30k each before tax.

Yes, with sacrifices for 1 kid it's doable.
Click to expand...
I think you're right.

It is doable, a hell of a commitment but doable.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,552
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well it was before that. I actually couldn't get myself registered with an NHS dentist once mine closed down, and that was under Major's government. 1992, gvernment cut fees to NHS dentists by 7%, that's where the root (no pun intended) cause is.
Click to expand...

Their new contract was a disaster

NHS dentists treat 500,000 fewer patients after Labour's controversial

Half a million fewer patients are seeing National Health Service dentists since Labour introduced a controversial new contract.
www.standard.co.uk
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,553
MalcSB said:
That doesn’t explain why education organisations are exempt.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. Could the historical reason be related to the fact that most Tories (most MPs, possibly) and their benefactors, benefitted financially from this unusual state of affairs?

Ah, just call me cynical, I'm sure these inconsistent tax breaks were all down to their innate charity and desire to improve the world we live in.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,554
Grendel said:
You would agree if you needed it and could afford it
Click to expand...
You couldn't be more wrong.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,555
Deleted member 9744 said:
You couldn't be more wrong.
Click to expand...

Well I couldn’t because I suspect if your child was in a sink estate school or your wife wanted a hip replacement you’d think more of their needs than your precious principles
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,556
duffer said:
No it doesn't. Could the historical reason be related to the fact that most Tories (most MPs, possibly) and their benefactors, benefitted financially from this unusual state of affairs?

Ah, just call me cynical, I'm sure these inconsistent tax breaks were all down to their innate charity and desire to improve the world we live in.
Click to expand...
We have had Labour governments before, and politicians attendance at private schools is not limited to the Tories,didn’t Tony Blair attend Fettes?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,557
Grendel said:
Well I couldn’t because I suspect if your child was in a sink estate school or your wife wanted a hip replacement you’d think more of their needs than your precious principles
Click to expand...
Starmer wouldn’t.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,558
MalcSB said:
We have had Labour governments before, and politicians attendance at private schools is not limited to the Tories,didn’t Tony Blair attend Fettes?
Click to expand...

And Dianne Abbott of course took the private option
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,559
Theyre just always involved in or surrounded by wrong doing!

Rishi Sunak's close protection officer arrested over alleged bets on election date

The police constable's arrest comes weeks after it emerged Mr Sunak's close parliamentary aide Craig Williams is facing an investigation after he bet on a July election.
news.sky.com
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,560
Was charging for prescriptions Labour or the Conservatives. I forget which one of the right wing parties it was.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,561
Philosoraptor said:
Was charging for prescriptions Labour or the Conservatives. I forget which one of the right wing parties it was.
Click to expand...
Tory. 1952.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,562
skybluetony176 said:
Getting required medical attention is a necessity not a luxury.
Click to expand...
Think more and more people will be pushed to private as there's no other option. Following my recent stay in hospital there's two things they want to investigate as potential causes, I've been told both should happen relatively urgently.

My appointment for one is June next year. For the other they sent me a choice of five places I could go, none of which have an appointment available in the next two years.

So next week I have an appointment with my GP to discuss getting this done privately despite the fact I can't afford it and will be getting into debt.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,563
Nick said:
After all it's a luxury to live in Finham
Click to expand...
you've gone too far now!
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,564
chiefdave said:
AnThink more and more people will be pushed to private as there's no other option. Following my recent stay in hospital there's two things they want to investigate as potential causes, I've been told both should happen relatively urgently.

My appointment for one is June next year. For the other they sent me a choice of five places I could go, none of which have an appointment available in the next two years.

So next week I have an appointment with my GP to discuss getting this done privately despite the fact I can't afford it and will be getting into debt.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the situation wherein patients should be able to claim NHS tariff to offset the cost of private treatment. I had to have cataract surgery done privately because the wait was so long I would have permanently lost sight in the affected eye.

I’m not sure where the concept of patient choice stands these days - I hope you manage to get your situation resolved satisfactorily.
 
Reactions: chiefdave

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,565
skybluetony176 said:
Sunak, Badenoch and Braverman all polling to lose their seats on that basis I just read.
Click to expand...
Badenoch would survive, Mordaunt would be out:

Kemi Badenoch is the future of the Tory party – no one else survives

The Telegraph’s exclusive poll raises the prospect of the Business Secretary leading the Right’s battle for control of the Tories
www.telegraph.co.uk
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jun 19, 2024
  • #38,566
chiefdave said:
Think more and more people will be pushed to private as there's no other option. Following my recent stay in hospital there's two things they want to investigate as potential causes, I've been told both should happen relatively urgently.

My appointment for one is June next year. For the other they sent me a choice of five places I could go, none of which have an appointment available in the next two years.

So next week I have an appointment with my GP to discuss getting this done privately despite the fact I can't afford it and will be getting into debt.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that. That's my point with this stuff is that you shouldn't be in that position but you have to get things done.

Get well soon!
 
Reactions: chiefdave

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 20, 2024
  • #38,567
dutchman said:
Badenoch would survive, Mordaunt would be out:

Kemi Badenoch is the future of the Tory party – no one else survives

The Telegraph’s exclusive poll raises the prospect of the Business Secretary leading the Right’s battle for control of the Tories
www.telegraph.co.uk
Click to expand...

Mordaunt being touted as the next PM because of the way she carried a sword summed up what a ludicrous shit hole this country has become.
 
Reactions: duffer, SkyBlueCharlie9, Ian1779 and 2 others

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jun 20, 2024
  • #38,568

I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see him back in the Tories at some point soon and part of a leadership contest. There’s definitely a bit of sleepwalking going on with all this.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 20, 2024
  • #38,569
Sick Boy said:

I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see him back in the Tories at some point soon and part of a leadership contest. There’s definitely a bit of sleepwalking going on with all this.
Click to expand...
A new charlatan for a new era.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744, Sky Blue Pete, SIR ERNIE and 2 others

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jun 20, 2024
  • #38,570
Brighton Sky Blue said:
A new charlatan for a new era.
Click to expand...
The prospect of him as Tory leader at the next election is a frightening prospect. They’ve already managed to get the ‘MSM’ narrative going in the UK like in the USA and he’s already like Trump to an extent where his base don’t care what he does or says.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849
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