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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (35 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,626
stupot07 said:
A first time buyer in Grimsby could buy this stamp duty free.

Check out this 5 bedroom detached house for sale on Rightmove

5 bedroom detached house for sale in Augusta Oaks, Grimsby, DN34 for £399,950. Marketed by Lovelle, Grimsby
www.rightmove.co.uk
Click to expand...
Yeah, but would have to live in Grimsby.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,627
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Which is also my point, it’s an optimistic pipe dream but it would solve the energy problem for two continents at once. Something as an intermediate measure is needed.
Click to expand...
Haven’t we had enough optimistic pipe dreams?
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,628
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Ok. He has pledged at most modest tax increases in a limited number of areas, while also pledging higher spending and investment while fixing serious societal problems.

How does he make that work? Why is he so afraid to support raising taxes on the wealthy and big business?
Click to expand...
I think he left a lot of wiggle room by mentioning income tax, NI and VAT, calling them taxes on working people. We all know this is political rhetoric to cover future changes of direction.
Labour will raise other taxes in 1-2 years time. He did say he can't write budgets ahead of time. He is ultra cautious and most of us are impatient for more.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,629
MalcSB said:
Haven’t we had enough optimistic pipe dreams?
Click to expand...
No?

We can't even own homes and the country is in the shite.

A big job creating project that actually aims at going a long way towards solving a huge issue would be great actually.
 
Reactions: clint van damme, shmmeee and Brighton Sky Blue

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,630
shmmeee said:
It’s overbudget in large part because of reactionary opposition and regulation. As I say SK builds for 1/6 of the cost.
Click to expand...
What do SK workers earn as a percentage of UK workers?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,631
oakey said:
As you are making this prediction, why do you believe Starmer will break his pledges?
Do you think they are too ambitious, impractical? Will events make some changes inevitable? Does he have Machiavellian secret plans? Is he just insincere or incompetent?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
Reactions: oakey

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,632
Liquid Gold said:
No?

We can't even own homes and the country is in the shite.

A big job creating project that actually aims at going a long way towards solving a huge issue would be great actually.
Click to expand...
Given the financial history and delivery of the vanity project HS2, would such a pipe dream run on time and to budget, and when it didn’t, who would be picking up the costs? Standing charge on domestic electricity bills is more than high enough already, They would go through the roof.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,633
oakey said:
As you are making this prediction, why do you believe Starmer will break his pledges?
Do you think they are too ambitious, impractical? Will events make some changes inevitable? Does he have Machiavellian secret plans? Is he just insincere or incompetent?
Click to expand...
Further, will Starmer remain as leader of the Labour Party?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,634
MalcSB said:
Given the financial history and delivery of the vanity project HS2, would such a pipe dream run on time and to budget, and when it didn’t, who would be picking up the costs? Standing charge on domestic electricity bills is more than high enough already, They would go through the roof.
Click to expand...
In a normal country HS2 wouldn't be a vanity project it would already go all the way to Glasgow and HS3 to Edinburgh, HS4 to Penzance etc.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9, torchomatic, CCFCSteve and 4 others

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,635
Liquid Gold said:
In a normal country HS2 wouldn't be a vanity project it would already go all the way to Glasgow and HS3 to Edinburgh, HS4 to Penzance etc.
Click to expand...
So you accept it is a vanity project. How much time does it save for someone travelling from Coventry to London? And how much will the ticket cost? And has WFH, video conferencing etc fucked the business case?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,636
MalcSB said:
So you accept it is a vanity project. How much time does it save for someone travelling from Coventry to London? And how much will the ticket cost? And has WFH, video conferencing etc fucked the business case?
Click to expand...
Building high speed rail isn't vanity.

Listening to every NIMBY to quadruple the cost has made it an absurd spectacle.
 
Reactions: clint van damme, shmmeee and Nuskyblue

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,637
Liquid Gold said:
Building high speed rail isn't vanity.

Listening to every NIMBY to quadruple the cost has made it an absurd spectacle.
Click to expand...
How much time does it save for someone travelling from Coventry to London? And how much will the ticket cost? And has WFH, video conferencing etc fucked the business case?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,638
MalcSB said:
How much time does it save for someone travelling from Coventry to London? And how much will the ticket cost? And has WFH, video conferencing etc fucked the business case?
Click to expand...
How much time will Stephenson's rocket save over my horse, I already own my horse so the cost is absurd. Hasn't telegraph messaging ruined the business case?

Stop being a luddite.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9 and shmmeee

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,639
shmmeee said:
Stunningly stupid manifesto from the Greens. They want to ban nuclear power.

Not a serious environmentalist movement.
Click to expand...
Had this discussion in union circles for yonks
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,640
Liquid Gold said:
How much time will Stephenson's rocket save over my horse, I already own my horse so the cost is absurd. Hasn't telegraph messaging ruined the business case?

Stop being a luddite.
Click to expand...
I’m not a Luddite at all, just think HS2 is a load of bollocks that relatively few people will benefit from. Certainly not the average working man. It’s interesting that you won’t answer my questions.

There would have been far more social benefit if the money had been spent on significantly increasing the number of university places for medicine and dentistry, maintaining the bursary for nurses in training, bringing UK diagnostics and hospital bed capacity , including ICU capacity, up to the European average (Romania and Germany has 3 times the UK bed capacity, Germany has over 5 times the ICU capacity).
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1
S

Skybluekyle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,641
MalcSB said:
How much time does it save for someone travelling from Coventry to London? And how much will the ticket cost? And has WFH, video conferencing etc fucked the business case?
Click to expand...
I think what gets ignored is that passenger services going onto HS2 frees up space for haulage on the existing pieces of the West Coast Main Line. The business case remains, in my opinion.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,642
Sky Blue Pete said:
Had this discussion in union circles for yonks
Click to expand...

Out of interest, are there plans to put someone forward to run against Kevin Maton next year?
 
Reactions: MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,643
Skybluekyle said:
I think what gets ignored is that passenger services going onto HS2 frees up space for haulage on the existing pieces of the West Coast Main Line. The business case remains, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Only if people use it. How affordable will it be for the average working person?

As I have said, more social benefit could have been gained by investment elsewhere.
 
S

Skybluekyle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,644
MalcSB said:
Only if people use it. How affordable will it be for the average working person?

As I have said, more social benefit could have been gained by investment elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Passenger railways services on HS2 is a bit up in the air, granted, but haulage replacing these services on the WCML could be crucial to supporting supply chain issues domestically, especially given our deficit of HGV drivers.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,645
MalcSB said:
Only if people use it. How affordable will it be for the average working person?

As I have said, more social benefit could have been gained by investment elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Isn't that why we've had half of it and the remainder ( joke) has been spent or apportioned to potholes etc ?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,646
Skybluekyle said:
Passenger railways services on HS2 is a bit up in the air, granted, but haulage replacing these services on the WCML could be crucial to supporting supply chain issues domestically, especially given our deficit of HGV drivers.
Click to expand...
But if passengers don’t switch in numbers to HS2, no capacity for freight will be released on existing lines. It will take longer for someone from Coventry to get to London using HS2 compared with the fastest existing service. Why would I even consider using HS2?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,647
wingy said:
Isn't that why we've had half of it and the remainder ( joke) has been spent or apportioned to potholes etc ?
Click to expand...
That decision should have been taken years ago.
The pothole situation is a disgrace considering how much tax motorists pay.
 
Reactions: wingy
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,648
MalcSB said:
But if passengers don’t switch in numbers to HS2, no capacity for freight will be released on existing lines. It will take longer for someone from Coventry to get to London using HS2 compared with the fastest existing service. Why would I even consider using HS2?
Click to expand...
Because inevitably in time they'll cut back the Coventry and Rugby services, whatever they say now
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,649
Deleted member 5849 said:
Because inevitably in time they'll cut back the Coventry and Rugby services, whatever they say now
Click to expand...
Are, so compulsion! Silly me for not realising that was the plan all along.
All those greenhouse gases propelling cars from Coventry to Birmingham and back.
 

Nuskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,650
MalcSB said:
What do SK workers earn as a percentage of UK workers?
Click to expand...
Not much different to us here.
 
S

Skybluekyle

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,651
MalcSB said:
But if passengers don’t switch in numbers to HS2, no capacity for freight will be released on existing lines. It will take longer for someone from Coventry to get to London using HS2 compared with the fastest existing service. Why would I even consider using HS2?
Click to expand...
Footfall at New Street and Euston will dictate whether to reduce services on the WCML, which I suspect will rapidly decrease when HS2 goes live. Whether we like it or not, HS2 is going to affect the WCML, and sitting on the Birmingham Loop is not going to be great for us, but we're a fraction of the total passenger footfall on the WCML as a whole, so best to look at the positives.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 12, 2024
  • #37,652
Skybluekyle said:
I think what gets ignored is that passenger services going onto HS2 frees up space for haulage on the existing pieces of the West Coast Main Line. The business case remains, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Messaging for HS2 has been an absolute mess. All we've heard is how you can get to London a few minutes quicker. How did they ever think that would get the public onside?
 
Reactions: Skybluekyle

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,653
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Ok. He has pledged at most modest tax increases in a limited number of areas, while also pledging higher spending and investment while fixing serious societal problems.

How does he make that work? Why is he so afraid to support raising taxes on the wealthy and big business?
Click to expand...

Id say rebanding council tax is a tax on the wealthy. It’ll lead to a rebalancing of the tax base away from the poorer north towards the south. As is the rumoured tax on banks mentioned in Tony’s video he posted.

The tax burden is at an all time high and the rich and big business also tend to be the hardest to go after quickly and easily as they can change their behaviour the easiest. Annoying but true in a world of global capital. Also parties don’t tend to win elections promising huge tax rises.

We managed to fix public services without huge tax rises on working people before. I don’t see why now it’s suddenly supposed to be impossible.

MalcSB said:
What do SK workers earn as a percentage of UK workers?
Click to expand...

Average wage is about £28k according to Google but I’d imagine in nuclear it’s a bit more.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,654
chiefdave said:
Messaging for HS2 has been an absolute mess. All we've heard is how you can get to London a few minutes quicker. How did they ever think that would get the public onside?
Click to expand...

Counterpoint: you shouldn’t need the public onside for basic infrastructure. Just build it. I don’t care if Doris doesn’t think we need another prison, reservoir or train line.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve, chiefdave and Nuskyblue

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,655
Liquid Gold said:
No?

We can't even own homes and the country is in the shite.

A big job creating project that actually aims at going a long way towards solving a huge issue would be great actually.
Click to expand...

No let’s just build nothing ever. Let’s have low growth and low productivity and outside of London remain a poor nation miles behind other first world countries. Because building things might be bad or something.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,656
We did it guys! We got the right to support proportional representation!

 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,657
shmmeee said:
Id say rebanding council tax is a tax on the wealthy. It’ll lead to a rebalancing of the tax base away from the poorer north towards the south. As is the rumoured tax on banks mentioned in Tony’s video he posted.

The tax burden is at an all time high and the rich and big business also tend to be the hardest to go after quickly and easily as they can change their behaviour the easiest. Annoying but true in a world of global capital. Also parties don’t tend to win elections promising huge tax rises.

We managed to fix public services without huge tax rises on working people before. I don’t see why now it’s suddenly supposed to be impossible.



Average wage is about £28k according to Google but I’d imagine in nuclear it’s a bit more.
Click to expand...
So why continue with fiscal drag?

Any new prospective government can quickly provide relief to a lot of people by raising the tax bands In line with inflation or at least a plan to lift tax bands up.
 
Reactions: MalcSB

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,658
Mucca Mad Boys said:
So why continue with fiscal drag?

Any new prospective government can quickly provide relief to a lot of people by raising the tax bands In line with inflation or at least a plan to lift tax bands up.
Click to expand...

It’s a pretty regressive tax break. If you’re concerned about providing relief there’s far more effective ways of doing it than giving everyone a tax cut. I don’t need a tax cut, my kids do need teachers
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,659
shmmeee said:
It’s a pretty regressive tax break. If you’re concerned about providing relief there’s far more effective ways of doing it than giving everyone a tax cut. I don’t need a tax cut, my kids do need teachers
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you are looking for a political party who are more concerned with public services than with wealth creation for the individual.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,660
shmmeee said:
It’s a pretty regressive tax break. If you’re concerned about providing relief there’s far more effective ways of doing it than giving everyone a tax cut. I don’t need a tax cut, my kids do need teachers
Click to expand...

Disagree, everyone is at 12k and increased that band in line with inflation would take that close to 20k. Immediately helping low earners.

The issue also relates to welfare system because, with the tax-free limit so low, in some cases it costs people more to work longer hours. Some people choose to remain reliant on the state rather than themselves because work really doesn’t pay for those people.

The tax band freezes and pensions threshold are also forcing people into retirement and this is an issue particularly in the NHS.

More growth = more tax receipts. We’re barely keeping our heads above 0% growth.
 
Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
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