No they’re not. In France, private health insurance patients can’t skip the queues like they can in this country. This apprehension around reform and considering other concepts that other healthcare systems do compared to us is a blocker to fixing the issues we have.This is exactly what people who talk about alternative models to the NHS want. Basically they want poor people to get worse care and the rich to be able to pay for the best. Problem is most people won’t appreciate the NHS until we lose it.
Ok - take it easy thenI think the forum will decide who is the total twat to be fair
Ok - take it easy then
Sorry I meant an actual source showing over demand.
Without wanting to sound arsey, what’s with you posting this kind of source? Under grad essays and student resources are a bit, um, weak shall we say. Politicians saying things as we know doesn’t necessarily line up with reality.
It’s from one of Attlee’s biographers. The decision to reintroduce prescriptions caused Bevan, Harold Wilson and others to resign from government. It was a twofold issue, there was a pressing need for defence spending (as it is today) as well as people overusing the new service.
Then there’s just common sense, why would you pay small fees for drugs like painkillers if they’re available for free?
It's not people over-using, once again the control point is the prescriber. The reason for changing was simply just a clean way to reduce spending without any real public dissent. It's not because the public is predisposed to take prescription drugs. If it was, how would your insurance based system deal with it?It’s from one of Attlee’s biographers. The decision to reintroduce prescriptions caused Bevan, Harold Wilson and others to resign from government. It was a twofold issue, there was a pressing need for defence spending (as it is today) as well as people overusing the new service.
Then there’s just common sense, why would you pay small fees for drugs like painkillers if they’re available for free?
It’s paranoia to think it’s either our way or the brutality of the US system.
See every other privatised service in this country, the sole objective has been to create profit. No improvement in services or investment, just declining services with margins protected at all costs.No it's not . We all know that's what certain elements of the political class are pushing for.
If they weren't then maybe people would be more open to a debate.
Facebook history tells me that some of the memories and memes are just not true over the last 12-13 years including ones about this is the last election to save the nhs onesSee every other privatised service in this country, the sole objective has been to create profit. No improvement in services or investment, just declining services with margins protected at all costs.
Explain pleaseFacebook history tells me that some of the memories and memes are just not true over the last 12-13 years including ones about this is the last election to save the nhs ones
If we want grown up solutions to complex problems we need to be willing to engage in more meaningful debate
Every election the tories won my left leaning friends were saying if the tories won the nhs would be broken up and sold and we’d have us style health deliveryExplain please
It's not people over-using, once again the control point is the prescriber. The reason for changing was simply just a clean way to reduce spending without any real public dissent. It's not because the public is predisposed to take prescription drugs. If it was, how would your insurance based system deal with it?
Every election the tories won my left leaning friends were saying if the tories won the nhs would be broken up and sold and we’d have us style health delivery
It was bollox
So let’s have a bit more of a grown up debate
Think the issue here is that a lot of people view the NHS being privatised as meaning a US style system where if you can't afford insurance and to pay for the cost of treatment you're screwed.Every election the tories won my left leaning friends were saying if the tories won the nhs would be broken up and sold and we’d have us style health delivery
It was bollox
So let’s have a bit more of a grown up debate
Think the issue here is that a lot of people view the NHS being privatised as meaning a US style system where if you can't afford insurance and to pay for the cost of treatment you're screwed.
In reality it means the areas of routine treatment, where it's relatively easy to make profit, is passed to the private sector. Meanwhile long term, complex and expensive treatment stays in the NHS.
Then there's the issue of staffing. How many front line staff are now working on a 'temp' basis via private agencies who charge far more than it costs for the NHS to employ them directly?
.
Then there's the issue of staffing. How many front line staff are now working on a 'temp' basis via private agencies who charge far more than it costs for the NHS to employ them directly?
yeah this is a major issue and something needs to be done about it but ultimately these are workers deciding they’d rather do that to earn more and get greater fl
I spoke to a senior consultant a couple of years ago and he said the reason many nurses at his hospital were going to temp agency work is the rotas/planning was a shambles. so many, especially those with young families, were struggling to get sufficient visibility on their future timetables.
It’s another one on the list of issues I have with the nhs and why I believe they could do better than they do currently if there was better planning and management
Facebook history tells me that some of the memories and memes are just not true over the last 12-13 years including ones about this is the last election to save the nhs ones
If we want grown up solutions to complex problems we need to be willing to engage in more meaningful debate
Every election the tories won my left leaning friends were saying if the tories won the nhs would be broken up and sold and we’d have us style health delivery
It was bollox
So let’s have a bit more of a grown up debate
From the experience of my ex-wifes department it's definitely not all staff leaving for more money, but if it is then the obvious answer is pay them properly, we all know another huge part of the staffing issue is they can earn far more if they're prepared to move overseas. Her experience was a cut to the budget leading to cuts to staff. The newly unemployed staff were then recruited by agencies and paid the same rate they were perviously on to provide 'emergency cover' when the hospital was unable to operate with the reduced staffing levels they now had due to budget cuts.yeah this is a major issue and something needs to be done about it but ultimately these are workers deciding they’d rather do that to earn more and get greater fl
I spoke to a senior consultant a couple of years ago and he said the reason many nurses at his hospital were going to temp agency work is the rotas/planning was a shambles. so many, especially those with young families, were struggling to get sufficient visibility on their future timetables.
It’s another one on the list of issues I have with the nhs and why I believe they could do better than they do currently if there was better planning and management
Which ones in particular? I'm pretty sure that there are a few European models that are based on the NHS.The staff are underpaid, patient satisfaction is low and our health outcomes are ‘middle of the pack’. In any case, the NHS is not the envy of the world and we could, and should, learn what we can from other healthcare systems.
From the experience of my ex-wifes department it's definitely not all staff leaving for more money, but if it is then the obvious answer is pay them properly, we all know another huge part of the staffing issue is they can earn far more if they're prepared to move overseas. Her experience was a cut to the budget leading to cuts to staff. The newly unemployed staff were then recruited by agencies and paid the same rate they were perviously on to provide 'emergency cover' when the hospital was unable to operate with the reduced staffing levels they now had due to budget cuts.
Not sure the timetable thing really makes much sense. If agency staff are being used to fill in the gaps when NHS staff aren't available then surely they get less notice than those directly employed by the NHS? For example when I was in hospital recently I overheard nursing staff being offered extra shifts to cover shortages and if there were no takers it was agency plugging the gaps.
Now I wonder who benefits from the huge profits those agencies makeExactly the same thing happening in schools. Paying through the nose for supply cos they can’t find full time teachers.
When my wife worked in the NHS I heard all sorts of horror stories and 'code black' situations. Each time they were due to being understaffed and underfunded. She'd work 12 hours at a time and wouldn't get any break whatsoever.From the experience of my ex-wifes department it's definitely not all staff leaving for more money, but if it is then the obvious answer is pay them properly, we all know another huge part of the staffing issue is they can earn far more if they're prepared to move overseas. Her experience was a cut to the budget leading to cuts to staff. The newly unemployed staff were then recruited by agencies and paid the same rate they were perviously on to provide 'emergency cover' when the hospital was unable to operate with the reduced staffing levels they now had due to budget cuts.
Not sure the timetable thing really makes much sense. If agency staff are being used to fill in the gaps when NHS staff aren't available then surely they get less notice than those directly employed by the NHS? For example when I was in hospital recently I overheard nursing staff being offered extra shifts to cover shortages and if there were no takers it was agency plugging the gaps.
Did Sunak really announce a plan to save the NHS that is 100 extra GP surgeries and pushing more work on to pharmacies.
I actually agree with pushing more to pharmacies in theory but as with everything what they've done already is not being properly funded and there's been reports that pharmacies are now at risk of closure as providing the additional services means they're running at a loss.
Pharmacy closures in England are ‘skyrocketing’, NPA warns
Drawing on NHS figures, the NPA said 177 pharmacies closed between January and April 2024 compared with 116 in the same period last year.www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk
Now I wonder who benefits from the huge profits those agencies make
It’s money Steve. My missus has just qualified as a pharmacy tech and the main reason she trained was to qualify for locum work because it pays so much better. If her wage was anything close to reasonable she’d be happy to stay doing what she’s doing.
It’s happening by stealth, whilst the main services are defunded year on year, and the staffing crisis gets worse.Every election the tories won my left leaning friends were saying if the tories won the nhs would be broken up and sold and we’d have us style health delivery
It was bollox
So let’s have a bit more of a grown up debate
The extra money from agency/ work doesn't go to the worker it goes to the agencies. Of course the problem is the quality of agency staff is often much lower than permanent staff, even though they cost much more.This was from a senior consultant at the QE mate so I’ll take it as fact. That’s not to say many won’t choose to do agency/locum work for the extra cash as well, that’s their personal choice but hardly a plan to privatise the nhs - if individuals didn’t choose to do agency work they’d be no business
It’s like there’s two extremes here, the nhs is perfect and just needs more money or let’s scrap the whole model. I’m somewhere inbetween ie increase funding but get some proper longer term plans in place and make some rather obvious changes and improvements (culturally and management)
I think 111 needs massive reform. It pushes everyone to A&E by default out of fear cos the staff aren’t medically trained, GP receptionists as well perhaps, should be pushing far more people to pharmacy first then GPs.
We’re in an age where medically tuned MoE LLMs are shown to be as effective as a panel of doctors at diagnosis, time to use the tech and make 111 what it was supposed to be in terms of low cost self triage.
I don’t think I am or would but that’s probably part of what I’m sayingIf you actually care about the NHS, the worst thing you could do is pretend everything is all ok and money will just solve all the problems.
It’s wishful thinking and even Labour accept that is not a tenable long term solution. There’s no easy answers and without meaningful reforms, the NHS is on borrowed time, frankly.
The staff are underpaid, patient satisfaction is low and our health outcomes are ‘middle of the pack’. In any case, the NHS is not the envy of the world and we could, and should, learn what we can from other healthcare systems.
The extra money from agency/ work doesn't go to the worker it goes to the agencies. Of course the problem is the quality of agency staff is often much lower than permanent staff, even though they cost much more.
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