Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The biggest benefit I can see from private schools is class sizes. That’s the crux of what you are paying for.
The biggest benefit I can see from private schools is class sizes. That’s the crux of what you are paying for.I don’t disagree at all.
You’re making this argument whilst simultaneously holding the view that this VAT increase won’t force people out private education.
To put one child through private education you’re looking at £3k per year. Secondary school is between 5-7 years so that’s a commitment of £15-21k per child in VAT alone. Thats without factoring in price increases from the schools themselves. This is a lot more than the factors you just mentioned - probably combined without doing the maths.
To me, it seems like you’re contradicting yourself here.
You can only ever have equality of opportunityIs that equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?
Would you rather lower standards of educational outcomes if it meant more equity than higher standards across the board at the cost of more inequality? The two go hand in hand unfortunately. This policy is regressive, not progressive.
Also if the schools did more to justify their charitable VAT free status then maybe they wouldn't be losing it in just over 5 weeks time.The biggest benefit I can see from private schools is class sizes. That’s the crux of what you are paying for.
I’m not sure if it’s possible to give state schools the same VAT exemptions as private schools - maybe that would help to free up cash in state school budgets?Also if the schools did more to justify their charitable VAT free status then maybe they wouldn't be losing it in just over 5 weeks time.
Or just make Private schools actually work for itI’m not sure if it’s possible to give state schools the same VAT exemptions as private schools - maybe that would help to free up cash in state school budgets?
Bless them how will they cope little cherubsRUGBY SCHOOL - Charity 528752
Charity details for RUGBY SCHOOL - Charity 528752register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk
Rugby school seem to have plenty of long term investments,I believe they own Elliotts Field shopping complex.
I’m not sure if it’s possible to give state schools the same VAT exemptions as private schools - maybe that would help to free up cash in state school budgets?
Aye skippy, they let her back in to retire with a bit of dignity even though she deserved to be fired for her vile racist and antisemetic bullshit.
Exactly....if you wanna pay for what you believe or perceive to be an upgrade on what the state already provide for free, then thats fine and dandy with me...crack on.....just pay the VAT that is rightfully due.
And? We are talking about the fees they charge people. it's the text example of what is "value added".State schools do have a similar status to charitable status but they don’t need to register with the Charity Commission. They register directly with the DoE.
Most educational materials are VAT exempt too.
Universities too, are ‘exempt charities’ so the next logical step would be to charge VAT on university tuition fees.
Judging by this thread, this policy is ‘red meat’ to the Labour base - tax private education irrespective of its impact on state schools. It’s social retribution rather than social justice.
Do State Schools Have Charitable Status? - Think Student
There are many different types of school systems in the UK. The main two categories are mainstream schools and independent schools (also known as private schools). The most common type of mainstream schools are grammar schools, free schools and community schools. All mainstream schools will ...thinkstudent.co.uk
This is why I think Labour framing taxing x to pay for y (as if government spending really works anything like that) is self defeating.
On the flip side, is private healthcare VATable? I’m assuming not. Would the expectation be that this is also implemented?
No you’re not paying the government at all…And? We are talking about the fees they charge people. it's the text example of what is "value added".
University fees are basically you paying the government unless you to one of the very few private universities in the UK.
No, we shouldn't add VAT to uni fees, we should scrap them all together and properly fund our universities.
Sorry but that’s not true - give state schools kids access to the same resources, same funding proportionally and the same class sizes and then we’ll really see the difference in the outcomes.Judging by this thread, this policy is ‘red meat’ to the Labour base - tax private education irrespective of its impact on state schools. It’s social retribution rather than social justice.
Do State Schools Have Charitable Status? - Think Student
There are many different types of school systems in the UK. The main two categories are mainstream schools and independent schools (also known as private schools). The most common type of mainstream schools are grammar schools, free schools and community schools. All mainstream schools will ...thinkstudent.co.uk
What do you think the NHS is spending its budget on?My purchasing power was reduced. Inflation and wages are two independent issues. It’s a sleight of hand of term to frame things as cuts that aren’t.
Back on track, the private sector doesn’t increase its spending in line with inflation because it’s not always necessary to do. Successful private enterprises are always looking at reducing their costs and driving efficiencies. Whereas, the public sector doesn’t have that same impetus. For example, where’s the accountability for how NHS spends its money?
I hate using this example but it’s symbolic, last year the NHS trusts were hiring for Directors of ‘lived experience’ on 5-figure salaries. The Telegraph found that nearly half of the NHS’ employees are managers, administrators or unqualified assistants.
The same administrators silencing medical professional whistleblowers and so on.
I’m not an expert, but if operating costs (i.e. staff wages) is one of the biggest % of the NHS budget, it seems like there could be a lot of efficiency improvements there.
The bottom line here is that the NHS is unaccountable for how it spends its budget.
Sorry but that’s not true - give state schools kids access to the same resources, same funding proportionally and the same class sizes and then we’ll really see the difference in the outcomes.
What do you think the NHS is spending its budget on?
Need to remove business rates from NHS hospitals aswell. It’s criminal they have to pay them and private hospitals don’t as they’re “charities”
Its main expenditure is on staffing, 40% of its entire budget…
The NHS is the biggest employer not just in the UK, but the whole of Europe.
Well that's bollocks.Successful private enterprises are always looking at reducing their costs and driving efficiencies. Whereas, the public sector doesn’t have that same impetus. For example, where’s the accountability for how NHS spends its money?
Going back to the Great Depression it's been shown that during recessions it's spending that makes the biggest difference.We’ve had the pandemic as a nice Petri dish. Europe went austerity. US went spending. We can see what happened (US recovered far better including inflation) and yet people still argue about it. 2008, Covid, the war. This happens again and again but people won’t accept it because they’ve got deeply held beliefs about how the economy “should” run.
Well if you're taking out loans and mortgages for private school you clearly can't afford to do it.A lot of people pay for these school fees by taking out loans and remortgages. Also of course the fees are going up every year in line with cost of living - many can’t afford it. They borrow
My purchasing power was reduced. Inflation and wages are two independent issues. It’s a sleight of hand of term to frame things as cuts that aren’t.
Back on track, the private sector doesn’t increase its spending in line with inflation because it’s not always necessary to do. Successful private enterprises are always looking at reducing their costs and driving efficiencies. Whereas, the public sector doesn’t have that same impetus. For example, where’s the accountability for how NHS spends its money?
I hate using this example but it’s symbolic, last year the NHS trusts were hiring for Directors of ‘lived experience’ on 5-figure salaries. The Telegraph found that nearly half of the NHS’ employees are managers, administrators or unqualified assistants.
The same administrators silencing medical professional whistleblowers and so on.
I’m not an expert, but if operating costs (i.e. staff wages) is one of the biggest % of the NHS budget, it seems like there could be a lot of efficiency improvements there.
The bottom line here is that the NHS is unaccountable for how it spends its budget.
Given healthcare services are provided by people that's hardly a revelation. At individual trust level the % will be even higher, >60%.Its main expenditure is on staffing, 40% of its entire budget…
The NHS is the biggest employer not just in the UK, but the whole of Europe.
Well that kind of proves my point.We have not had growth since 2008
Well that kind of proves my point.
Indeed, the UK economy as a whole is smaller than in 2008. Yet according to the year on year statistics 13 of those years are growth years. Misleading, no?
You need more indicators to get a fuller picture.
My purchasing power was reduced. Inflation and wages are two independent issues. It’s a sleight of hand of term to frame things as cuts that aren’t.
Back on track, the private sector doesn’t increase its spending in line with inflation because it’s not always necessary to do. Successful private enterprises are always looking at reducing their costs and driving efficiencies. Whereas, the public sector doesn’t have that same impetus. For example, where’s the accountability for how NHS spends its money?
I hate using this example but it’s symbolic, last year the NHS trusts were hiring for Directors of ‘lived experience’ on 5-figure salaries. The Telegraph found that nearly half of the NHS’ employees are managers, administrators or unqualified assistants.
The same administrators silencing medical professional whistleblowers and so on.
I’m not an expert, but if operating costs (i.e. staff wages) is one of the biggest % of the NHS budget, it seems like there could be a lot of efficiency improvements there.
The bottom line here is that the NHS is unaccountable for how it spends its budget.
You really must do some actual research. Citing the Telegraph FFS. I presume that the Telegraph is advocating replacing the assistants with fully qualified nurses at greater cost, and having the clinical staff send appointment letters out rather than provide healthcare. Oh and the management can be done by doctors instead of wasting time with patients.
Yes, and about half of people employed by the NHS are managers, administrators and non-medical professionals. To me, a 50:50 split of medical and non-medical seems disproportionate. Yes, you obviously need a bureaucracy to keep things ticking over but not 50:50.40% staffing costs is pretty middle of the road. Less than software or teaching for example. Schools I think spend 80%.
It’s only the biggest employer because it’s a single org. Other healthcare systems are split into multiple orgs.
How ignorant. I wouldn’t dismiss something out hand because The Guardian said something I disagreed with. Prove it wrong.You really must do some actual research. Citing the Telegraph FFS. I presume that the Telegraph is advocating replacing the assistants with fully qualified nurses at greater cost, and having the clinical staff send appointment letters out rather than provide healthcare. Oh and the management can be done by doctors instead of wasting time with patients.
How ignorant. I wouldn’t dismiss something out hand because The Guardian said something I disagreed with. Prove it wrong.
Both parties agree that the current system is unsustainable so by all means, pretend that all is well. We’ve got a few parliaments to ‘fix’ the NHS before there’s a serious conversation about its future.
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