I think Abbott is racist. She’s consistently put out racist views over years. I think similarly to how some old school feminists are just sexist against men (justifiably at the time less so now) old school anti racists can often be blind to their own racism against people who aren’t black.
Corbyn i think is just a bit dim and misses large chunks of the blatant antisemitism around him and excuses anyone who is anti west on principle.
If you seriously believe that either Corbyn or Abbot are racist, I've got a bridge that you might like to buy.
The simple truth, that you're struggling to admit, a bit like Keir, is that if you're on the left of the party you are no longer welcome, and Starmer will find any excuse to kick you out.
In the meantime, if there's the possibility of a single vote in it, Starmer will welcome in right wing loons like Elphicke.
Broad church? Who are you trying to kid!
Labour commissioned its own independent report into racism in the party, the Forde report.
Here's the author of that report at a loss as to why Abbot has not had the whip reinstated. His point; others have done similar or worse, apologised and are now back in the fold.
‘Others have had it restored after worse things’: Forde report author says, as calls grow to return whip to Diane Abbott
The author of the Labour Party’s Forde report has said he is 'at a loss’ as to why Diane Abbott has not had the Labour whip restored.www.lbc.co.uk
And yet all the people on the left who haven’t published racism or excused racism are still in the PLP. Weird.
BRB calling Zarah Sultana a right wing shill.
Let’s be honest, the further left to the party you go, the more likely you’ll find people that just don’t see anti semitism as being racist.
Same as the further right you go in the Tories the more likely you’ll find people that see stuff that Braverman and Anderson (when he was there) say as not racist/Islamophobic
Starmer hasn’t really proven to be a man of principle (can change his opinion depending on which way the winds blowing), but his attempts to change this within the party should be commended, even if that means there’s some collateral damage ie overly harsh in circumstances
I wish Sunak had done the same with the right of the party when he became leader. I reckon he’ll see his failure to do so and appointment of Braverman to placate the harder right, as one of his biggest regrets
Let’s be honest, the further left to the party you go, the more likely you’ll find people that just don’t see anti semitism as being racist.
Same as the further right you go in the Tories the more likely you’ll find people that see stuff that Braverman and Anderson (when he was there) say as not racist/Islamophobic
Starmer hasn’t really proven to be a man of principle (can change his opinion depending on which way the winds blowing), but his attempts to change this within the party should be commended, even if that means there’s some collateral damage ie overly harsh in circumstances
I wish Sunak had done the same with the right of the party when he became leader. I reckon he’ll see his failure to do so and appointment of Braverman to placate the harder right, as one of his biggest regrets
I'm sorry mate, but I can't let the anti-Semitism thing go unchallenged.
It's the left who have always stood against all forms of racism. If you're conflating criticism of the state of Israel with anti-semitism, then you're not thinking straight.
As for whether Starmer moving the party to the right is a good thing, if you're centrist leaning towards centre right, you probably think it is.
If, like me, you were a Labour member because you saw it as a force for much-needed change, then you probably think it isn't.
Is the left of the party anti-Semitic, and did Corbyn really try to slow down the resolution of anti-Semitic complaints? Read on...
I'm sorry mate, but I can't let the anti-Semitism thing go unchallenged.
It's the left who have always stood against all forms of racism. If you're conflating criticism of the state of Israel with anti-semitism, then you're not thinking straight.
As for whether Starmer moving the party to the right is a good thing, if you're centrist leaning towards centre right, you probably think it is.
If, like me, you were a Labour member because you saw it as a force for much-needed change, then you probably think it isn't.
Is the left of the party anti-Semitic, and did Corbyn really try to slow down the resolution of anti-Semitic complaints? Read on...
Just to be clear this isn’t conflating to criticism of Israel, especially recently, a lot of which is fully justified, with anti semitism. There have been a number of Labour MPs that resigned in recent years due to what they saw as regular and unchallenged anti semitism. Some of those mightve been chancers but some weren’t. 100s of member complaints, suspensions and warnings. The EHRC report etc etc
Weirdly of seven MPs that resigned in 2019, they all went on to form the pro-EU Independent Group for Change, only one of them mentioned institutional antisemitism as a reason for resigning (Luciana Berger). After that they pretty much all got corporate lobbyist jobs.
Luciana Berger has subsequently rejoined the party via the Liberal Democrats.
Luciana Berger has subsequently rejoined the party via the Liberal Democrats.
There are many strands of the religious Jewish community who believe this, its not antisemitic to say this at all."Zionism not Judaism" stuff from some on the left.
There are many strands of the religious Jewish community who believe this, its not antisemitic to say this at all.
That’s not the point. There’s valid criticisms of Islam, but the phrase is also overused by people who just don’t like Muslims.
There is a problem on the conspiratorial left with antisemitism that’s nothing to do with Zionism or Israel. Just good old fashioned Jews control the world conspiracies. And Corbyn, for all his good points, is a fully paid up member of the conspiratorial left.
Made this point a few times but the first anti-Zionist were Jews and they still exist. They see the creation of the Israeli state as a direct threat to god. These Jews still exist and live in Israel, they’re the Jewish sects that don’t have to do national service, they were the Hasidic Jews who’ve been protesting the invasion of Gaza in Israel since day one. In most cases there ancestors never left what is known as Israel, they lived largely in piece with their Arab neighbours, Gaza and the West Bank weren’t annexed and the Israeli state didn’t exist. This conflict has been created by men like Netanyahu for decades and quite deliberately. The last few weeks especially the veil has been slipping with talks of Israel occupying Gaza alongside a puppet Muslim government, fortunately the Muslim countries Netanyahu has touted as possible “partners” have told him to swivel.Jews controlling the world nonsense is nothing to do with anti zionism. That pre dates Israel.
Of course people will use the actions of Israel as a gateway for antisemitism but that still doesn't make your statement correct.
Zionism is not Judaism is a firmly held believe of many Jewish people, that's a fact.
In fact I'm fairly sure that conflating the 2 is itself deemed antisemitic.
Jews controlling the world nonsense is nothing to do with anti zionism. That pre dates Israel.
Of course people will use the actions of Israel as a gateway for antisemitism but that still doesn't make your statement correct.
Zionism is not Judaism is a firmly held believe of many Jewish people, that's a fact.
In fact I'm fairly sure that conflating the 2 is itself deemed antisemitic.
The problem here is that there are genuine concerns from Jews about rhetoric on the left, and there’s FUD bollocks from the Israel lobby, and they all get dismissed out of hand by the left.
You’ve done it here. Despite me saying twice it’s not about Israel, you’ve brought it back to Israel. Why? Why not accept that some on the left can be antisemitic at worst and contribute to spreading or ignoring the spreading of antisemitic theories and tropes at best?
It feels sometimes like for some on the left it’s a moral position and accepting anyone on the left can’t hold bad views pops that and immediately makes them as bad as the right, who are the bad people. And it leads to some on the left going too far and not being called on it.
You explicitly mentioned zionism, that makes it about Israel.
I get your point but the phrase you used wasn't really appropriate for the argument you were trying to get across.
And Ive called out people on the left on here when I think theyve been antisemitic, for example Chris Williamson but also defended people on the left when I think it's been weaponised against them, for example Marc Wadsworth.
I think there’s people who use that phrase as cover like I think there’s those on the right do with Islam when really it’s about brown people. It’s not quite the same but a significant number of Jews have a loose definition of Zionism they subscribe to.
Why is a crooked nose unique?No it's not criticism of Israel that's the real problem, and there Israel certainly plays the AS card with abandon.
It's the anti-capitalist strand of the left that gets itself in trouble. When I was a young socialist with early access to the internet I got into the Rothschild conspiracies and the like without a thought about Jews, despite them being very well known antisemitic tropes. The crooked nosed banker like the one in the mural Corbyn defended. The insinuation that elites are controlling the media/economy. That last one is tricky cos it is a well known antisemitic trope, it's also true but not about jews, but also there's a lot of overlap on the conspiratorial left and conspiratorial right with people who jumped from "elites control the media/economy/banking" to "Jews are the elites we're talking about" very easily.
Isn't that being racist about anyone with a hook nose,be they Muslim or westerner?
Isn't that being racist about anyone with a hook nose,be they Muslim or westerner?
I genuinely looked at that mural and I just thought a masonic lodge!Are we really arguing “big nosed Jew” isn’t a thing? No one said racism had to be logically consistent.
Tolerant of russia in the report I picked up?Robert Fico - Prime Minister of Slovakia has just been shot four times. In a critical condition.
Bit of a dodgy character. Corrupt, accusations that he has had journalists killed etc. Then again he is against immigration and the covid vaccine, so fuck knows what the motivation was behind the shooting. The BBC are concentrating on 'hate speech' though.
Tolerant of russia in the report I picked up?
And yet Boris defecting would still make more sense than Elphicke.Give it time
Aside from the fact I think he’s a useless twonk, if I looked at ‘pledge number 5’ around teaching how does he expect that this will just happen? If he think 6500 new teachers will fix the problem he’s even more of an idiot than I thought.That's your idea? Another launch?
Aside from the fact I think he’s a useless twonk, if I looked at ‘pledge number 5’ around teaching how does he expect that this will just happen? If he think 6500 new teachers will fix the problem he’s even more of an idiot than I thought.
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