Do we need a whole new team in the summer? (1 Viewer)

shmmeee · Apr 2, 2023

Not a knee jerk reaction to yesterday, but a genuine question. If the money is there to buy modest improvements, and we’re likely to sell Vik and Gus and maybe even Cal if he comes back well in August, who from those that are left are first teamers other than Sheaf? Maybe Fadz but another year is always a gamble. Maybe Palmer if he can stay fit. Otherwise we need 8-10 first team players in plus 3-5 squad players.

I make it (assuming Vik and Gus go and Cal stays):

GK, CB x 4, RWB, LWB, CM x 2, AM, ST x 3

13 players, and basically a whole team. Is that doable? Too much change in one summer? Is there anyone other than the big four and the kids worth keeping around?

Bidwell, Godden, Allen and Wilson in their final year as squad players, Eccles, Burroughs and maybe Howley as fringe players.

How do we think the summer will go?

SBT · Apr 2, 2023

It’s not doable, which is why I imagine we’ll extend the contracts of players who we’d ideally be graduating past by now (Dabo, Rose)

slowpoke · Apr 2, 2023

The problem for me is midfield which is any teams engine room and I like and rate Eccles, Hamer and Sheaf individually but I’m not convinced as a trio it’s good enough. It looked all over the place yesterday. A fully fit Palmer could change it but keeping him fully fit seems difficult.

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 2, 2023

In an ideal world we have 22 Championship standard players with a few youth prospects to be on the edges of the squad. Assuming Gyo and Hamer are to be sold, I’d retain:

Wilson
Bidwell
McF
Sheaf
Allen
Palmer
O’Hare
Burroughs

Release or sell the rest. I would then look to add 11 permanent players:

1 x GK
3 x CB
1 x RWB
2 x DM
3 x ST

Then 4 loans:

1 x LWB
1 x CB
1 x ST
1 x AM

Then the pick of 3 prospects from the academy, I’d include Howley as one for starters. This sort of squad allows us to rotate and be flexible in response to heavy game loads and different opposition.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 2, 2023

SBAndy · Apr 2, 2023

SBT said:
It’s not doable, which is why I imagine we’ll extend the contracts of players who we’d ideally be graduating past by now (Dabo, Rose)

How many of our L1 winning side played for us the previous season?

Edit: and I know the Championship is a different beast financially, just musing.

SkyBlueSam01 · Apr 2, 2023

I thought King's quote a few months back was interesting...

Said something like 'we should be aiming to finish in the playoffs 3/5 seasons' (or similar). To me thats a big contrast to the previous 'incremental progression' plan, and suggests we may settle for a development year next year, which in turn suggests pretty wholsale changes to the squad may be planned in the summer.

SBT · Apr 2, 2023

SBAndy said:
How many of our L1 winning side played for us the previous season?

Edit: and I know the Championship is a different beast financially, just musing.

By my count we signed 14 first team players, including loans that season. But as you say, I think it’s a lot more doable to rebuild the squad in L1 than it is in this league. And it only happened that year because we saw a lot more transfer money come in than go out.

SBAndy · Apr 2, 2023

SBT said:
By my count we signed 14 first team players, including loans that season. But as you say, I think it’s a lot more doable to rebuild the squad in L1 than it is in this league. And it only happened that year because we saw a lot more transfer money come in than go out.

Who did we sell? I recall Bayliss, was there any other major sales?

SBT · Apr 2, 2023

SBAndy said:
Who did we sell? I recall Bayliss, was there any other major sales?

Chaplin and then later in the season, McCallum

fernandopartridge · Apr 2, 2023

SBAndy said:
Who did we sell? I recall Bayliss, was there any other major sales?

We made a modest profit on selling Chaplin as well I think. Not sure when we started to spend the sell on for Maddison as he signed for Leicester the summer before.

pusbccfc · Apr 2, 2023

SkyBlueSam01 said:
I thought King's quote a few months back was interesting...

Said something like 'we should be aiming to finish in the playoffs 3/5 seasons' (or similar). To me thats a big contrast to the previous 'incremental progression' plan, and suggests we may settle for a development year next year, which in turn suggests pretty wholsale changes to the squad may be planned in the summer.

He'll need to get the fans on side with that. We've hovered close to the play offs for 2 out of 3 seasons at this level. People will become bored.

Unfortunately I see a lot of disappointment by September when we sell Gyok for a measly 10m, a lot less than people expect. Hamer is gone and we see little investment.

The worry will be when we start the season with Godden up alone top alone with Allen in behind and fans pushing Robins to throw O'Hare in to add some spark too soon (like Jodi Jones) through desperation. Even worse will be the clammer for Taveres to become the saviour again.

Or we could spend lots of money, but I doubt it.

shmmeee · Apr 2, 2023

Of course we’re likely to have a lot more transfer money in this summer than we spend. If all three go you could be looking at close to £30m in, and I couldn’t see the above costing more than £15m or so.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 2, 2023

SkyBlueSam01 said:
I thought King's quote a few months back was interesting...

Said something like 'we should be aiming to finish in the playoffs 3/5 seasons' (or similar). To me thats a big contrast to the previous 'incremental progression' plan, and suggests we may settle for a development year next year, which in turn suggests pretty wholsale changes to the squad may be planned in the summer.

Given where we are right now play-offs in 3-5 seasons is very much incremental progression.

David O'Day · Apr 2, 2023

A midfield of Palmer, Sheaf, Hamer and O'Hare is very good

Striker (assuming Vik leaves), GK and Defence are the issues to solve in the summer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 2, 2023

The big thing is of course contract expiring in 12 months. I think the club would prefer to only sell one at most, but if they aren't signed up to new contracts by the time pre-season starts, and August at the latest, we can't afford to let assets worth that much leave for free and suitors will be looked for.

The possibility of Maddison moving on and us getting part of that fee could add to the kitty, but having that level of squad turnover in a short space of time is very risky. Our recruitment could be great and we have a great team. But at the same time we could sign a few duds and lose that togetherness the squad seem to have developed.

I'm going to make he most of the excitement of transfer rumours and signings over the summer as I know I could well end up feeling disappointed at the end of it.

slowpoke · Apr 2, 2023

Been told Vik has a new agent, Swedish chap.

baldy · Apr 2, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
In an ideal world we have 22 Championship standard players with a few youth prospects to be on the edges of the squad. Assuming Gyo and Hamer are to be sold, I’d retain:

Wilson
Bidwell
McF
Sheaf
Allen
Palmer
O’Hare
Burroughs

Release or sell the rest. I would then look to add 11 permanent players:

1 x GK
3 x CB
1 x RWB
2 x DM
3 x ST

Then 4 loans:

1 x LWB
1 x CB
1 x ST
1 x AM

Then the pick of 3 prospects from the academy, I’d include Howley as one for starters. This sort of squad allows us to rotate and be flexible in response to heavy game loads and different opposition.

That‘s exactly what I try & do in Footy Manager haha - a squad of 22 with a backup goalie,defende,midfielder & striker

shmmeee · Apr 2, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
In an ideal world we have 22 Championship standard players with a few youth prospects to be on the edges of the squad. Assuming Gyo and Hamer are to be sold, I’d retain:

Wilson
Bidwell
McF
Sheaf
Allen
Palmer
O’Hare
Burroughs

Release or sell the rest. I would then look to add 11 permanent players:

1 x GK
3 x CB
1 x RWB
2 x DM
3 x ST

Then 4 loans:

1 x LWB
1 x CB
1 x ST
1 x AM

Then the pick of 3 prospects from the academy, I’d include Howley as one for starters. This sort of squad allows us to rotate and be flexible in response to heavy game loads and different opposition.

Eccles?

shmmeee · Apr 2, 2023

Bare minimum, even if we renew Dabo Rose and even Kelly:

Wilson/Moore
Dabo/Burroughs
LWB/Bidwell
CB/CB/CB/Fadz/Rose
CM/Sheaf/Eccles/Kelly
O’Hare/Palmer/Allen
ST/ST/Godden

That’s still 7 signings and I’d have serious questions about GK, CM and RWB, and possibly AM with two coming back from injury. You could maybe get away with Tavares and Howley added to that

long way home · Apr 3, 2023

Lots more will become clearer when we know the outcome about Vik and Hamer contract talks. The incomings will be dictated by those 2 i would of thought.

As for outs we have some very obvious outs, but MR may still have questions on the likes of Dabo, Borroughs, Rose, Walker and Mcguire. And also have to make decisions on if to try to bring any of the loans back next season. Im sure MR wants to know outcomes of certain players asap but i also think he and King have plans for all outcomes. We will improve again and bring more quality depth in no matter what.

skyblue025 · Apr 3, 2023

I think people are being overly optimistic if they think Callum will be back playing in August. He did his Cruciate on Boxing day. It's normally a minimum of 9 months but most cases a year until they are playing again after that injury. I can't think of a single player who has come back as good straight away after a cruciate either. Normally takes them 3-6 months after coming back to get up to speed. Realistically it's probably going to be about this time next season until we see the best of him again.

clint van damme · Apr 3, 2023

pusbccfc said:
He'll need to get the fans on side with that. We've hovered close to the play offs for 2 out of 3 seasons at this level. People will become bored.

Unfortunately I see a lot of disappointment by September when we sell Gyok for a measly 10m, a lot less than people expect. Hamer is gone and we see little investment.

The worry will be when we start the season with Godden up alone top alone with Allen in behind and fans pushing Robins to throw O'Hare in to add some spark too soon (like Jodi Jones) through desperation. Even worse will be the clammer for Taveres to become the saviour again.

Or we could spend lots of money, but I doubt it.

That's a bleak scenario that I don't see happening to be honest.
I said I'd wait and see how king does before getting too excited but he's already making changes, spending on Ryton, recruiting recruitment and commercial staff etc.
Can't see him doing that but leaving us with a bare bones playing squad.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Apr 3, 2023

skyblue025 said:
I think people are being overly optimistic if they think Callum will be back playing in August. He did his Cruciate on Boxing day. It's normally a minimum of 9 months but most cases a year until they are playing again after that injury. I can't think of a single player who has come back as good straight away after a cruciate either. Normally takes them 3-6 months after coming back to get up to speed. Realistically it's probably going to be about this time next season until we see the best of him again.

I thought Robins said around September? Even then it’ll take him a month or so to get match fit

Skybluedownunder · Apr 3, 2023

shmmeee said:
Bare minimum, even if we renew Dabo Rose and even Kelly:

Wilson/Moore
Dabo/Burroughs
LWB/Bidwell
CB/CB/CB/Fadz/Rose
CM/Sheaf/Eccles/Kelly
O’Hare/Palmer/Allen
ST/ST/Godden

That’s still 7 signings and I’d have serious questions about GK, CM and RWB, and possibly AM with two coming back from injury. You could maybe get away with Tavares and Howley added to that

There’s no way I’d be renewing Kelly whatsoever, he’s done nothing for 2 years!
I’d rather look to upgrade Dabo than keep personally, another injury prone player who blows hot and cold but if he stays then so be it
Rose I’m happy to keep as a squad player

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skybluedownunder · Apr 3, 2023

skyblue025 said:
I think people are being overly optimistic if they think Callum will be back playing in August. He did his Cruciate on Boxing day. It's normally a minimum of 9 months but most cases a year until they are playing again after that injury. I can't think of a single player who has come back as good straight away after a cruciate either. Normally takes them 3-6 months after coming back to get up to speed. Realistically it's probably going to be about this time next season until we see the best of him again.

I don’t think there will be any questions on Maguire, it will be see ya later, thanks for nothing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stevefloyd · Apr 3, 2023

slowpoke said:
The problem for me is midfield which is any teams engine room and I like and rate Eccles, Hamer and Sheaf individually but I’m not convinced as a trio it’s good enough. It looked all over the place yesterday. A fully fit Palmer could change it but keeping him fully fit seems difficult.

I still haven't seen enough from Eccles, maybe if we had still been in league 1 but not in the championship, we have quality in Hamer and Sheaf and then err..it stops. Eccles is ok but just as a squad player at best atm, Howley definitely not but I do like Burroughs..

GaryPendrysEyes · Apr 3, 2023

It will be very interesting to see what the net investment from King is over the summer.
We certainly need a good clear out but we need to bring in 2 or 3 with quality/leadership ability and that isn’t cheap.

Terry Gibson's perm · Apr 3, 2023

If/when Vik goes I would also look to get Godden out the door as well he is far to injury prone and doesn’t look the same player since his last injury, so we need at least three strikers and three centre backs plus a goalkeeper so Wilson can go back on the bench.

SBAndy · Apr 3, 2023

shmmeee said:
Bare minimum, even if we renew Dabo Rose and even Kelly:

Wilson/Moore
Dabo/Burroughs
LWB/Bidwell
CB/CB/CB/Fadz/Rose
CM/Sheaf/Eccles/Kelly
O’Hare/Palmer/Allen
ST/ST/Godden

That’s still 7 signings and I’d have serious questions about GK, CM and RWB, and possibly AM with two coming back from injury. You could maybe get away with Tavares and Howley added to that

Think we need GK, LWB, RWB, 3xCB, CM, AM, 2xST. 7 signings and 3 loans probably. Allen can cover CM as well.

Northeast sky blue · Apr 3, 2023

SBAndy said:
Think we need GK, LWB, RWB, 3xCB, CM, AM, 2xST. 7 signings and 3 loans probably. Allen can cover CM as well.

Plus any replacements for whomever gets sold, it's going to be an interesting summer

torchomatic · Apr 3, 2023

Vik will obviously go, but I really can't see Hamer going anywhere. I'm old enough to remember Summer 1983 when Bobby Gould had to sign a whole new team, on the whole that worked out ok. Different nowadays, of course. Even If we get a shitload of money for Vik and keep everyone else, it will still be difficult to have the financial clout to strengthen in all the areas we realistically need to.

Shame the Academy isn't producing like it has in the past. OK, Burroughs and Howley play, but there are no stars coming through as per Wilson, Maddison, etc.

Grendel · Apr 3, 2023

torchomatic said:
Vik will obviously go, but I really can't see Hamer going anywhere. I'm old enough to remember Summer 1983 when Bobby Gould had to sign a whole new team, on the whole that worked out ok. Different nowadays, of course. Even If we get a shitload of money for Vik and keep everyone else, it will still be difficult to have the financial clout to strengthen in all the areas we realistically need to.

We will have a lot of wages saved. Waghorn Kelly Walker and Kane must be on reasonable wages

Of the team that played yesterday very few likely will remain. Mcfazdean- but he’s creaking - sheaf, Eccles (not really a first team regular) possibly hamer. I wonder if godden will move on as well

torchomatic · Apr 3, 2023

Yeah, Godden has lost it. Dabo never had it. Bidwell, looks ordinary too. To be fair on Saturday everyone was useless, even McNally who has been immense since January.

pusbccfc · Apr 3, 2023

Lot of people assuming Hamer will be here. I think he could leave before Vik.

If any scouts have been watching Vik for the past 2 months, you'd assume they'd have spotted Hamer standing out like a sore thumb

Do we need a whole new team in the summer? (1 Viewer)

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