Do teams that are winning the championship after 12 games tend to get promoted? (8 Viewers)

JustWoody said:

I got chat GPT to tell me where teams that were top after 12 games for the last 8 seasons finished...

• 2017–18 — Wolves → Yes (automatic).
• 2018–19 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2019–20 — West Bromwich Albion → Yes (automatic).
• 2020–21 — Norwich City → Yes (champions).
• 2021–22 — AFC Bournemouth → Yes (automatic).
• 2022–23 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2023–24 — Leicester City → Yes (champions).
• 2024–25 — Sunderland → Yes (play offs).

(Yes = promoted)

Hopefully that helps us think that there is a decent chance that we will stay the course?

Click to expand...

JustWoody said:

I got chat GPT to tell me where teams that were top after 12 games for the last 8 seasons finished...

• 2017–18 — Wolves → Yes (automatic).
• 2018–19 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2019–20 — West Bromwich Albion → Yes (automatic).
• 2020–21 — Norwich City → Yes (champions).
• 2021–22 — AFC Bournemouth → Yes (automatic).
• 2022–23 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2023–24 — Leicester City → Yes (champions).
• 2024–25 — Sunderland → Yes (play offs).

(Yes = promoted)

Hopefully that helps us think that there is a decent chance that we will stay the course?

Click to expand...

Skyblueweeman said:

I was curious and just asked when was the last time a team was top after 12 games and not been promoted and it says Boro were top after 12 games in 18/19 and then finished 7th which is different to the above?!

Click to expand...

Domo said:

what does yes mean?

Click to expand...

Skyblueweeman said:

I was curious and just asked when was the last time a team was top after 12 games and not been promoted and it says Boro were top after 12 games in 18/19 and then finished 7th which is different to the above?!

Click to expand...

Hincha said:

That is wrong. Sheff Utd were top after 12 games

Last time was 16/17. Norwich were top and finished 8th

Click to expand...

shmmeee said:

Should use Gemini:


The Anatomy of a Championship Campaign: Statistical Synthesis
Aggregating two decades of data allows for a clear, quantitative analysis of the advantage conferred by leading the Championship after 12 matches. This section synthesizes the season-by-season chronicles into overarching statistical trends.
Master Summary Table: Two Decades at the Top
The following table provides a comprehensive summary of the findings, detailing each 12-game leader and their ultimate fate for every season since the 2004-05 rebranding.
| Season | 12-Game Leader | Final League Position | Final Outcome | Method of Promotion |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2004–05 | Wigan Athletic | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2005–06 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2006–07 | Cardiff City | 13th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2007–08 | Watford | 6th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2008–09 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2009–10 | West Bromwich Albion | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2010–11 | Queens Park Rangers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2011–12 | Southampton | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2012–13 | Leicester City | 6th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2013–14 | Burnley | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2014–15 | Watford | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2015–16 | Brighton & Hove Albion | 3rd | Not Promoted | - |
| 2016–17 | Norwich City | 8th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2017–18 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2018–19 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2019–20 | West Bromwich Albion | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2020–21 | Norwich City | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2021–22 | Bournemouth | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2022–23 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2023–24 | Leicester City | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
The Leader's Dividend: Quantifying the Fast Start Advantage
Across the 20 seasons analyzed, 15 of the 20 teams leading the Championship after 12 matches went on to secure promotion to the Premier League.
* Overall Promotion Success Rate: 75\%
This figure is profoundly significant when compared to the baseline probability. At the start of any given Championship season, each of the 24 clubs has a 3 in 24, or 12.5\%, chance of promotion. The data demonstrates that being top of the table after just 12 matches increases a team's likelihood of promotion by a factor of six (from 12.5\% to 75\%). This provides a definitive statistical answer: a fast start is not merely a psychological boost but a powerful and robust indicator of a successful campaign.
Paths to Glory: How Pace-Setters Secure Promotion
While the overall promotion rate is high, the method by which these teams achieve promotion reveals the difficulty of maintaining the top spot. Of the 15 pace-setters who were promoted:
* 5 teams (33.3%) went on to win the title as Champions.
* 10 teams (66.7%) were overtaken and finished as Runners-up.
* 0 teams (0%) had to rely on the play-offs to gain promotion.
This breakdown exposes a critical dynamic of the Championship. While a strong start is an excellent foundation for securing an automatic promotion place, two-thirds of the teams who lead after 12 games and ultimately go up are unable to hold onto their position as the league's number one team. This highlights the attritional nature of the season and the immense pressure of being the front-runner. It suggests that while a fast start often provides a sufficient points buffer to avoid the jeopardy of the play-offs, it does not guarantee the ultimate prize of the league trophy.
The Front-Runner's Fall: Anatomy of a Collapse
In 5 of the 20 seasons (25% of the time), the team leading after 12 games failed to secure promotion. These instances serve as important case studies in how momentum can be lost.
* 2006–07: Cardiff City finished 13th.
* 2007–08: Watford finished 6th (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2012–13: Leicester City finished 6th (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2015–16: Brighton & Hove Albion finished 3rd (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2016–17: Norwich City finished 8th.
The average final league position for these five teams was 7.2, indicating that even when they fail to secure promotion, they typically remain in the top half of the table. However, the dramatic drop of Cardiff City to 13th place underscores the potential for a complete collapse. A common theme among these failed campaigns is the inability to navigate the notoriously difficult winter period, where fixture congestion and challenging conditions can derail a team that lacks sufficient squad depth or the mental fortitude to handle a dip in form. In several cases, such as Watford in 2007-08 and Leicester in 2012-13, the teams remained in contention until the very end, only to fall short in the high-pressure environment of the play-offs.
Concluding Insights: The Marathon, Not the Sprint
The evidence gathered over two decades of the EFL Championship in its modern format provides a clear and compelling conclusion: leading the league after 12 games is a formidable predictor of promotion. A 75\% success rate, representing a six-fold increase over the baseline probability, confirms that a fast start is far more than a fleeting advantage; it is the single strongest indicator of a team’s capacity to compete at the highest level of the division. The points accumulated in the opening quarter of the season frequently provide a crucial buffer that helps these teams weather the inevitable loss of form that the 46-game marathon entails.
However, this headline figure is underpinned by a more complex reality, revealing what can be termed the "Pace-Setter's Paradox." While three-quarters of early leaders are promoted, two-thirds of those successful teams fail to win the title. This demonstrates the profound difficulty of maintaining a position at the summit. The Championship is a relentless war of attrition, and being the front-runner invites pressure, raises expectations, and turns every opponent's fixture into a cup final. The chasing pack, exemplified by Sunderland in 2004-05 and Reading in 2005-06, can often build momentum without the same level of scrutiny.
Ultimately, the analysis confirms that the Championship is a two-part challenge. The first phase, from August to October, is about establishing credentials and building a platform. A fast start is the most effective way to achieve this, separating the true contenders from the rest. The second, more grueling phase is the 34-game slog from late autumn through the depths of winter to the final run-in. Success in this phase requires squad depth, resilience, and the tactical acumen to navigate what is arguably the most demanding league schedule in world football.
Therefore, a fast start is a necessary, but not wholly sufficient, condition for success. It secures a team a seat at the high-stakes table of promotion contenders, but it does not guarantee they will leave with the ultimate prize. The ability to convert that early promise into a tangible reward remains the defining challenge of the Championship gauntlet.

Click to expand...

shmmeee said:

Should use Gemini:


The Anatomy of a Championship Campaign: Statistical Synthesis
Aggregating two decades of data allows for a clear, quantitative analysis of the advantage conferred by leading the Championship after 12 matches. This section synthesizes the season-by-season chronicles into overarching statistical trends.
Master Summary Table: Two Decades at the Top
The following table provides a comprehensive summary of the findings, detailing each 12-game leader and their ultimate fate for every season since the 2004-05 rebranding.
| Season | 12-Game Leader | Final League Position | Final Outcome | Method of Promotion |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2004–05 | Wigan Athletic | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2005–06 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2006–07 | Cardiff City | 13th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2007–08 | Watford | 6th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2008–09 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2009–10 | West Bromwich Albion | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2010–11 | Queens Park Rangers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2011–12 | Southampton | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2012–13 | Leicester City | 6th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2013–14 | Burnley | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2014–15 | Watford | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2015–16 | Brighton & Hove Albion | 3rd | Not Promoted | - |
| 2016–17 | Norwich City | 8th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2017–18 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2018–19 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2019–20 | West Bromwich Albion | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2020–21 | Norwich City | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2021–22 | Bournemouth | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2022–23 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2023–24 | Leicester City | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
The Leader's Dividend: Quantifying the Fast Start Advantage
Across the 20 seasons analyzed, 15 of the 20 teams leading the Championship after 12 matches went on to secure promotion to the Premier League.
* Overall Promotion Success Rate: 75\%
This figure is profoundly significant when compared to the baseline probability. At the start of any given Championship season, each of the 24 clubs has a 3 in 24, or 12.5\%, chance of promotion. The data demonstrates that being top of the table after just 12 matches increases a team's likelihood of promotion by a factor of six (from 12.5\% to 75\%). This provides a definitive statistical answer: a fast start is not merely a psychological boost but a powerful and robust indicator of a successful campaign.
Paths to Glory: How Pace-Setters Secure Promotion
While the overall promotion rate is high, the method by which these teams achieve promotion reveals the difficulty of maintaining the top spot. Of the 15 pace-setters who were promoted:
* 5 teams (33.3%) went on to win the title as Champions.
* 10 teams (66.7%) were overtaken and finished as Runners-up.
* 0 teams (0%) had to rely on the play-offs to gain promotion.
This breakdown exposes a critical dynamic of the Championship. While a strong start is an excellent foundation for securing an automatic promotion place, two-thirds of the teams who lead after 12 games and ultimately go up are unable to hold onto their position as the league's number one team. This highlights the attritional nature of the season and the immense pressure of being the front-runner. It suggests that while a fast start often provides a sufficient points buffer to avoid the jeopardy of the play-offs, it does not guarantee the ultimate prize of the league trophy.
The Front-Runner's Fall: Anatomy of a Collapse
In 5 of the 20 seasons (25% of the time), the team leading after 12 games failed to secure promotion. These instances serve as important case studies in how momentum can be lost.
* 2006–07: Cardiff City finished 13th.
* 2007–08: Watford finished 6th (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2012–13: Leicester City finished 6th (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2015–16: Brighton & Hove Albion finished 3rd (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2016–17: Norwich City finished 8th.
The average final league position for these five teams was 7.2, indicating that even when they fail to secure promotion, they typically remain in the top half of the table. However, the dramatic drop of Cardiff City to 13th place underscores the potential for a complete collapse. A common theme among these failed campaigns is the inability to navigate the notoriously difficult winter period, where fixture congestion and challenging conditions can derail a team that lacks sufficient squad depth or the mental fortitude to handle a dip in form. In several cases, such as Watford in 2007-08 and Leicester in 2012-13, the teams remained in contention until the very end, only to fall short in the high-pressure environment of the play-offs.
Concluding Insights: The Marathon, Not the Sprint
The evidence gathered over two decades of the EFL Championship in its modern format provides a clear and compelling conclusion: leading the league after 12 games is a formidable predictor of promotion. A 75\% success rate, representing a six-fold increase over the baseline probability, confirms that a fast start is far more than a fleeting advantage; it is the single strongest indicator of a team’s capacity to compete at the highest level of the division. The points accumulated in the opening quarter of the season frequently provide a crucial buffer that helps these teams weather the inevitable loss of form that the 46-game marathon entails.
However, this headline figure is underpinned by a more complex reality, revealing what can be termed the "Pace-Setter's Paradox." While three-quarters of early leaders are promoted, two-thirds of those successful teams fail to win the title. This demonstrates the profound difficulty of maintaining a position at the summit. The Championship is a relentless war of attrition, and being the front-runner invites pressure, raises expectations, and turns every opponent's fixture into a cup final. The chasing pack, exemplified by Sunderland in 2004-05 and Reading in 2005-06, can often build momentum without the same level of scrutiny.
Ultimately, the analysis confirms that the Championship is a two-part challenge. The first phase, from August to October, is about establishing credentials and building a platform. A fast start is the most effective way to achieve this, separating the true contenders from the rest. The second, more grueling phase is the 34-game slog from late autumn through the depths of winter to the final run-in. Success in this phase requires squad depth, resilience, and the tactical acumen to navigate what is arguably the most demanding league schedule in world football.
Therefore, a fast start is a necessary, but not wholly sufficient, condition for success. It secures a team a seat at the high-stakes table of promotion contenders, but it does not guarantee they will leave with the ultimate prize. The ability to convert that early promise into a tangible reward remains the defining challenge of the Championship gauntlet.

Click to expand...

JustWoody said:

I got chat GPT to tell me where teams that were top after 12 games for the last 8 seasons finished...

• 2017–18 — Wolves → Yes (automatic).
• 2018–19 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2019–20 — West Bromwich Albion → Yes (automatic).
• 2020–21 — Norwich City → Yes (champions).
• 2021–22 — AFC Bournemouth → Yes (automatic).
• 2022–23 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2023–24 — Leicester City → Yes (champions).
• 2024–25 — Sunderland → Yes (play offs).

(Yes = promoted)

Hopefully that helps us think that there is a decent chance that we will stay the course?

Click to expand...

Samo said:

They will all have had bigger squads than us and that could be where we come unstuck, unless we bolster the squad in January.

Click to expand...

Samo said:

They will all have had bigger squads than us and that could be where we come unstuck, unless we bolster the squad in January.

Click to expand...

JustWoody said:

I got chat GPT to tell me where teams that were top after 12 games for the last 8 seasons finished...

• 2017–18 — Wolves → Yes (automatic).
• 2018–19 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2019–20 — West Bromwich Albion → Yes (automatic).
• 2020–21 — Norwich City → Yes (champions).
• 2021–22 — AFC Bournemouth → Yes (automatic).
• 2022–23 — Sheffield United → Yes (automatic).
• 2023–24 — Leicester City → Yes (champions).
• 2024–25 — Sunderland → Yes (play offs).

(Yes = promoted)

Hopefully that helps us think that there is a decent chance that we will stay the course?

Click to expand...

Jay88 said:

Interesting stat. I'd imagine most of them (with the exception of Sunderland and Wolves) were parachute sides so were able to carry big squads. Like people have said some big squads can cause issues though with unrest and egos when players aren't playing.

Click to expand...

Samo said:

That is true, but on the other hand if EMC and Sakamoto both get injured we are in the shit.

Click to expand...

shmmeee said:

Should use Gemini:


The Anatomy of a Championship Campaign: Statistical Synthesis
Aggregating two decades of data allows for a clear, quantitative analysis of the advantage conferred by leading the Championship after 12 matches. This section synthesizes the season-by-season chronicles into overarching statistical trends.
Master Summary Table: Two Decades at the Top
The following table provides a comprehensive summary of the findings, detailing each 12-game leader and their ultimate fate for every season since the 2004-05 rebranding.
| Season | 12-Game Leader | Final League Position | Final Outcome | Method of Promotion |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2004–05 | Wigan Athletic | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2005–06 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2006–07 | Cardiff City | 13th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2007–08 | Watford | 6th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2008–09 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2009–10 | West Bromwich Albion | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2010–11 | Queens Park Rangers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2011–12 | Southampton | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2012–13 | Leicester City | 6th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2013–14 | Burnley | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2014–15 | Watford | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2015–16 | Brighton & Hove Albion | 3rd | Not Promoted | - |
| 2016–17 | Norwich City | 8th | Not Promoted | - |
| 2017–18 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2018–19 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2019–20 | West Bromwich Albion | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2020–21 | Norwich City | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
| 2021–22 | Bournemouth | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2022–23 | Sheffield United | 2nd | Promoted | Runners-up |
| 2023–24 | Leicester City | 1st | Promoted | Champions |
The Leader's Dividend: Quantifying the Fast Start Advantage
Across the 20 seasons analyzed, 15 of the 20 teams leading the Championship after 12 matches went on to secure promotion to the Premier League.
* Overall Promotion Success Rate: 75\%
This figure is profoundly significant when compared to the baseline probability. At the start of any given Championship season, each of the 24 clubs has a 3 in 24, or 12.5\%, chance of promotion. The data demonstrates that being top of the table after just 12 matches increases a team's likelihood of promotion by a factor of six (from 12.5\% to 75\%). This provides a definitive statistical answer: a fast start is not merely a psychological boost but a powerful and robust indicator of a successful campaign.
Paths to Glory: How Pace-Setters Secure Promotion
While the overall promotion rate is high, the method by which these teams achieve promotion reveals the difficulty of maintaining the top spot. Of the 15 pace-setters who were promoted:
* 5 teams (33.3%) went on to win the title as Champions.
* 10 teams (66.7%) were overtaken and finished as Runners-up.
* 0 teams (0%) had to rely on the play-offs to gain promotion.
This breakdown exposes a critical dynamic of the Championship. While a strong start is an excellent foundation for securing an automatic promotion place, two-thirds of the teams who lead after 12 games and ultimately go up are unable to hold onto their position as the league's number one team. This highlights the attritional nature of the season and the immense pressure of being the front-runner. It suggests that while a fast start often provides a sufficient points buffer to avoid the jeopardy of the play-offs, it does not guarantee the ultimate prize of the league trophy.
The Front-Runner's Fall: Anatomy of a Collapse
In 5 of the 20 seasons (25% of the time), the team leading after 12 games failed to secure promotion. These instances serve as important case studies in how momentum can be lost.
* 2006–07: Cardiff City finished 13th.
* 2007–08: Watford finished 6th (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2012–13: Leicester City finished 6th (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2015–16: Brighton & Hove Albion finished 3rd (lost in play-off semi-finals).
* 2016–17: Norwich City finished 8th.
The average final league position for these five teams was 7.2, indicating that even when they fail to secure promotion, they typically remain in the top half of the table. However, the dramatic drop of Cardiff City to 13th place underscores the potential for a complete collapse. A common theme among these failed campaigns is the inability to navigate the notoriously difficult winter period, where fixture congestion and challenging conditions can derail a team that lacks sufficient squad depth or the mental fortitude to handle a dip in form. In several cases, such as Watford in 2007-08 and Leicester in 2012-13, the teams remained in contention until the very end, only to fall short in the high-pressure environment of the play-offs.
Concluding Insights: The Marathon, Not the Sprint
The evidence gathered over two decades of the EFL Championship in its modern format provides a clear and compelling conclusion: leading the league after 12 games is a formidable predictor of promotion. A 75\% success rate, representing a six-fold increase over the baseline probability, confirms that a fast start is far more than a fleeting advantage; it is the single strongest indicator of a team’s capacity to compete at the highest level of the division. The points accumulated in the opening quarter of the season frequently provide a crucial buffer that helps these teams weather the inevitable loss of form that the 46-game marathon entails.
However, this headline figure is underpinned by a more complex reality, revealing what can be termed the "Pace-Setter's Paradox." While three-quarters of early leaders are promoted, two-thirds of those successful teams fail to win the title. This demonstrates the profound difficulty of maintaining a position at the summit. The Championship is a relentless war of attrition, and being the front-runner invites pressure, raises expectations, and turns every opponent's fixture into a cup final. The chasing pack, exemplified by Sunderland in 2004-05 and Reading in 2005-06, can often build momentum without the same level of scrutiny.
Ultimately, the analysis confirms that the Championship is a two-part challenge. The first phase, from August to October, is about establishing credentials and building a platform. A fast start is the most effective way to achieve this, separating the true contenders from the rest. The second, more grueling phase is the 34-game slog from late autumn through the depths of winter to the final run-in. Success in this phase requires squad depth, resilience, and the tactical acumen to navigate what is arguably the most demanding league schedule in world football.
Therefore, a fast start is a necessary, but not wholly sufficient, condition for success. It secures a team a seat at the high-stakes table of promotion contenders, but it does not guarantee they will leave with the ultimate prize. The ability to convert that early promise into a tangible reward remains the defining challenge of the Championship gauntlet.

Click to expand...

mrfr said:

Fuck sakes. Honestly, if you are curious enough to want to know this stuff how are you not also curious enough to fact check the fucking answers?! Just don’t bother if you can’t be bothered. Otherwise you might as well just make your own shite up and post that instead.

Hey guys, I asked CrapGPT if Jamie Allen had the biggest dong in the EPL and it said he’s hung like a bell tower. AMA.

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