Do ACL need us or not? (1 Viewer)

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

According to reports ACL made a £470k profit last year.

Our rent last year was is £1.28M

We are currently paying £10k per match which covers costs (Therefore ACL aren't making a loss).

ACL currently claim they dont need and can survive without us but my maths says different and without us a loss of £810k would have been on the cards last year.

Which ever way you turn it's just another load of BS.

Voice_of_Reason · Dec 7, 2012

Yes, ACL does need us.. should CCFC vanish, so does the Ricoh branding and any revenue from CCFC, renegotiated or otherwise. ACL cannot survive on just a couple of pop concerts a year. In my opinion, ACL has cut off it's own nose to spite it's face. They will be left with a White Elephant.

TheRoyalScam · Dec 7, 2012

Voice_of_Reason said:
Yes, ACL does need us.. should CCFC vanish, so does the Ricoh branding and any revenue from CCFC, renegotiated or otherwise. ACL cannot survive on just a couple of pop concerts a year. In my opinion, ACL has cut off it's own nose to spite it's face. They will be left with a White Elephant.

:thinking about:There's a lot more happening at the Ricoh than a 'couple of pop concerts a year'.

Ccfc1979 · Dec 7, 2012

TheRoyalScam said:
:thinking about:There's a lot more happening at the Ricoh than a 'couple of pop concerts a year'.

But obviously not a lot to make a profit. They can have all the conferences and Christmas parties they like...that won't make up for the lost rent (when it was paid) and revenue from sponsorship the football club has bought in.

sw88 · Dec 7, 2012

As I posted on another thread, the football club (reportedly) only generates 17% of the overall income. I believe if the stadium was freed up on Saturdays, should we depart, they could quite easily fill these gaps with other events!

Nick · Dec 7, 2012

They could have concerts all year round too!

Sub · Dec 7, 2012

might aswell have more concerts all year round instead of the circus we have now !!!

shepardo01 · Dec 7, 2012

Other "people" (may be wrong word) ARE interested in using the Ricoh as a sporting venue........
ACL have other irons in the fire......

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2012

shepardo01 said:
Other "people" (may be wrong word) ARE interested in using the Ricoh as a sporting venue........
ACL have other irons in the fire......

who would that be then? can't think of anyone local who would need a 30K capacity. wonder if those who are interested are looking to pay 1.2m? assuming it's another sport why couldn't the Ricoh have 2 teams playing there, works at many other grounds.

Official Away Travel · Dec 7, 2012

Voice_of_Reason said:
Yes, ACL does need us.. should CCFC vanish, so does the Ricoh branding and any revenue from CCFC, renegotiated or otherwise. ACL cannot survive on just a couple of pop concerts a year. In my opinion, ACL has cut off it's own nose to spite it's face. They will be left with a White Elephant.

Really?? It does do exhibitions and conferences

Grendel · Dec 7, 2012

Ricoh2012 said:
Really?? It does do exhibitions and conferences

Name one other similar venue which has no regular sporting team in it.

Ccfc1979 · Dec 7, 2012

Grendel said:
Name one other similar venue which has no regular sporting team in it.

Also, name one outdoor venue that has concerts throughout the year.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2012

Ccfc1979 said:
Also, name one outdoor venue that has concerts throughout the year.

Can anyone name any venue outside London that has outdoor concerts outside of the summer season?

shepardo01 · Dec 7, 2012

chiefdave said:
who would that be then? can't think of anyone local who would need a 30K capacity. wonder if those who are interested are looking to pay 1.2m? assuming it's another sport why couldn't the Ricoh have 2 teams playing there, works at many other grounds.

It can have two teams...and that has been talked about. They are not local... and have plied their trade at other football stadia..... don't know if the name would change if they did use the Ricoh...

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

sw88 said:
As I posted on another thread, the football club (reportedly) only generates 17% of the overall income. I believe if the stadium was freed up on Saturdays, should we depart, they could quite easily fill these gaps with other events!

Yes but I'm talking about profit not income. You can have as much income as you like but the fact is without our income they make a loss.

Its also (or should be) guaranteed income and what business wants to walk away from that.

Not sure how many outdoor middle of December concerts they would be able to drum up either. An outdoor venue is only really viable 6 months of the year.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2012

shepardo01 said:
It can have two teams...and that has been talked about. They are not local... and have plied their trade at other football stadia..... don't know if the name would change if they did use the Ricoh...

Will they spend over 1 million a year for the privilege?

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

Its already been stated that our £10k per match just covers costs. That tells me we are being ripped off big style and ACL have got plenty of room for movement and the club have got hardly any if they want to survive or certainly compete at the top end of the table.

As much as I'm no fan of SISU my anger in this is directed at ACL.

stupot07 · Dec 7, 2012

17% income is fecking huge.

Johnnythespider · Dec 7, 2012

Would that be ACL who if reports are to be believed have made two major moves towards the clubs position. While our esteemed owners continue to starve a charity of cash in order to weaken it to the point where it has to sell it's shares at a knockdown price. I'm angry at a lot of people, Bryan Richardson, geofrey robinson and the current board, but most definately not ACL.

Black6Osprey said:
Its already been stated that our £10k per match just covers costs. That tells me we are being ripped off big style and ACL have got plenty of room for movement and the club have got hardly any if they want to survive or certainly compete at the top end of the table.

As much as I'm no fan of SISU my anger in this is directed at ACL.

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

If in my business Im going to lose an important customer I do all I can to keep them. If that means my profits are drastically reduced but I keep some profit and enough turnover to warrant the deal then that's what I'll do rather than get nothing. ACL are just cutting their nose off and its madness.

The club have to take a stand at some point and ACL have had plenty of time to come up with a decent offer and have left it until a week ago to come up with £600k or so we think. If the club still that is too high (and anyone can see that it is) then why should the club just accept it and roll over.

You all want success and blame the owners at every turn but continue paying this rent would be a killing off our chances of getting out of this league.

I've got no interest in the poor old charity, their needs aren't my concern. Bah humbug and all that.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2012

stupot07 said:
17% income is fecking huge.

It is. I am an advisory director in a manufacturing company with a seven figure turnover. We would be wiped out if we lost that sort of turnover. It's a fifth for goodness sake!

wingy · Dec 7, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
If in my business Im going to lose an important customer I do all I can to keep them. If that means my profits are drastically reduced but I keep some profit and enough turnover to warrant the deal then that's what I'll do rather than get nothing. ACL are just cutting their nose off and its madness.

The club have to take a stand at some point and ACL have had plenty of time to come up with a decent offer and have left it until a week ago to come up with £600k or so we think. If the club still that is too high (and anyone can see that it is) then why should the club just accept it and roll over.

You all want success and blame the owners at every turn but continue paying this rent would be a killing off our chances of getting out of this league.

I've got no interest in the poor old charity, their needs aren't my concern. Bah humbug and all that.

Keep tp facts the offer of 50% reduction was made at least four months ago,the 33% offer was made at the weekend.

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

wingy said:
Keep tp facts the offer of 50% reduction was made at least four months ago,the 33% offer was made at the weekend.

Sorry I thought this was a forum and facts were purely optional.

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

So you are saying their latest offer is worse than the offer they turned down in August? Wow, they must really want to do a deal. Tbh I thought it was other way round but yes you are correct.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 7, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
So you are saying their latest offer is worse than the offer they turned down in August? Wow, they must really want to do a deal. Tbh I thought it was other way round but yes you are correct.

Apparently we were offered 600k rent in the summer and more recently 400k rent and 50% of catering income

May be just speculation

Another thing that I think may be a sticking point in negotiations that has been mentioned before is the unpaid rent since March. Even if a deal is agreed for future rent, will the club pay the 100k a month rent missed for the last 7/8 months missed or will they argue they should pay a reduced amount for the past 8 months

cloughie · Dec 7, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
So you are saying their latest offer is worse than the offer they turned down in August? Wow, they must really want to do a deal. Tbh I thought it was other way round but yes you are correct.

You are being pathetic to try and justify your stance

The offer is for 33% of the 1.2 million.

ACL have obviously restructed their finances to be able to accept that figure

If and it won't happen CCFC had to leave the Ricoh ACL would certainly not be in trouble , but unlike sisu they have a moral obligation to the city of Coventry

Quote sisu's lovely Joy 'I don't care what anybody thinks about me I only care about my family and my investors'

That shows the interest in CCFC is sweet FA

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

cloughie said:
You are being pathetic to try and justify your stance

The offer is for 33% of the 1.2 million.

Don't hold back will you.

I thought the offer was 50%. This I now realise was the old offer and now its a reduced offer of 33%.

Where does the pathetic bit come in?

You obviously want us to keep paying a price we cant afford and also therefore not compete in this league. You are a strange idea of a supporter but you are entitled to your opinion which in your eyes I am clearly not.

cloughie · Dec 7, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
Don't hold back will you.

I thought the offer was 50%. This I now realise was the old offer and now its a reduced offer of 33%.

Where does the pathetic bit come in?

You obviously want us to keep paying a price we cant afford and also therefore not compete in this league. You are a strange idea of a supporter but you are entitled to your opinion which in your eyes I am clearly not.

Where did I say you were not entitled to an opinion . Pathetic because you appeared to be trying to pretend that they are now offering only 33% off the £1.2

Sorry I'm not a good a supporter as you

cloughie · Dec 7, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
Its already been stated that our £10k per match just covers costs. That tells me we are being ripped off big style and ACL have got plenty of room for movement and the club have got hardly any if they want to survive or certainly compete at the top end of the table.

As much as I'm no fan of SISU my anger in this is directed at ACL.

Facts to consider from PWKH
Match day revenues: CCFC have all the revenues except the revenue from the kiosks on the concourse. The £10,000 Fisher talks about includes paying Compass for the food and drink that the Club sell to the Corporates. The boardroom £600 bar bill comes out of the £10,000.
Put things in perspective, it costs £800 per day to heat the pitch. That heating is on 7 days a week at the moment, £5,600. That has to come out of the £10,000. Fisher claims that he is being overcharged, an easy thing to say but actually untrue.

Ripped off?

Tonylinc · Dec 7, 2012

In all of this row I have yet to hear what figure Sisu think is reasonable for rent or have I missed something?

Grendel · Dec 7, 2012

Tonylinc said:
In all of this row I have yet to hear what figure Sisu think is reasonable for rent or have I missed something?

£200,000 - very reasonable I'd say

Tonylinc · Dec 7, 2012

NO No I want to know what Sisu think is reasonable.

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2012

cloughie said:
Facts to consider from PWKH
Match day revenues: CCFC have all the revenues except the revenue from the kiosks on the concourse. The £10,000 Fisher talks about includes paying Compass for the food and drink that the Club sell to the Corporates. The boardroom £600 bar bill comes out of the £10,000.
Put things in perspective, it costs £800 per day to heat the pitch. That heating is on 7 days a week at the moment, £5,600. That has to come out of the £10,000. Fisher claims that he is being overcharged, an easy thing to say but actually untrue.

Ripped off?

You could look at it another way, CCFC only use the pitch 1, sometimes 2, days of the week. Why should it be down to them to pay for it 7 days a week? It was also said the money SISU pay employs ground staff, pitch being relaid etc. Again you could make an argument that's not the clubs problem. I did ask the question that if CCFC are paying for that do they get a cut when the pitch is used for the Olympics, rugby etc but didn't get an answer. Just shows it's not an easy situation.

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

cloughie said:
Where did I say you were not entitled to an opinion . Pathetic because you appeared to be trying to pretend that they are now offering only 33% off the £1.2

Sorry I'm not a good a supporter as you

You might think I'm some sort of wind up merchant but I'm just trying to get my head around it and I can't find an actual statement from the club or ACL of what this last offer actually was. Was there a statement made and I just can't find it?

Black6Osprey · Dec 7, 2012

cloughie said:
Facts to consider from PWKH
Match day revenues: CCFC have all the revenues except the revenue from the kiosks on the concourse. The £10,000 Fisher talks about includes paying Compass for the food and drink that the Club sell to the Corporates. The boardroom £600 bar bill comes out of the £10,000.
Put things in perspective, it costs £800 per day to heat the pitch. That heating is on 7 days a week at the moment, £5,600. That has to come out of the £10,000. Fisher claims that he is being overcharged, an easy thing to say but actually untrue.

Ripped off?

Yes but when I said ripped off I meant when they want £1.2M.

There is a big difference between £250k at approx £10k per match which I would agree is not enough rent for this ground and for ACL to make a decent profit and £1.2M.

£1.2M is worse than being ripped off. I was being overly polite.

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