Did sisu save ACL? (1 Viewer)

Godiva said:

Well, it quite obivious that had the Golden Share and the players contract been in the same company - then sisu would have been open to a take over attempt as anyone (Haskell), had he secured the Higgs shares first, would be able to put in a considerable bid for Limited and the administrator would have to do the best for 'limited' in that situation => sell to the one with access to a stadium as well as money to secure the creditors.

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So you're suggesting someone would buy the Higgs shares, then pay a considerable amount for Ltd, and have plenty left over to pay off the creditors (that would be SISU companies would it?).

At the end of that they would own a loss making League 1 outfit, and half of a worthless stadium management company.

Godiva said:

The threat of stop funding the club was what actually brought about the negotiations. Something nobody before that had achieved.

The 'shifting of assets' was to protect against a hostile take over - and to break the lease. I had said both over and over the past year or more. I even mentioned the part about the 'debt wall' in the FAQ's whenever that was written (in case anyone remembers).

We will probably never agree on much and this is how it always is with highly complicated cases and with multiple parties. In this case it is not less complicated as more involved holds positions in more than one organisation ... sisu/arvo/ccfc - higgs/acl ... acl/ccc.

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I can't find mention of a "debt wall" in those articles, however I found this rather outdated description of CCFC debt position.. as CCFC now makes substantial interest payments..

Godiva said:

I should probably leave this to OSB, but a quick look shows a business in great trouble. A yearly loss of almost 65% - that is, for every £1 they earn they spend £1.65.
One thing that for sure seperates QPR from CCFC is interests paid - they spend >20% of their income on interests. As we don't pay interests on the sisu loans, we only pay very little on the external debt we have.

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Can you provide a reference to what you said about a debt wall?

Godiva said:

I think it is more likely they started to bring the mess in order ... as TF put it ... in 2012.
If you have vaguely followed some of my posts, I am sure you'll recognise that I have said as much many times during the administration.
I have also repeatedly said that they have surely done it within the law.

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IMO summer 2011 ,Thorne in charge ,significant turnaround of players out anf In ,and virtually all others signed to new contracts .

Godiva said:

I think it is more likely they started to bring the mess in order ... as TF put it ... in 2012.
If you have vaguely followed some of my posts, I am sure you'll recognise that I have said as much many times during the administration.
I have also repeatedly said that they have surely done it within the law.

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Firstly, I vaguely follow some of everything but I'll admit I can't remembere your specific views, sorry.

Within the law maybe (although I don't agree with that particular law), but it destroys Sisu's case that they never planned for admin until ACL forced it.

Yet the Defendant’s subsidiary, ACL, continued to press assiduously for payment in full and to pursue action through the courts even while rent negotiations with the Club were ongoing, culminating in an application on 13 March 2013 to put CC Limited into administration

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The argument they're making is that West knew about the rent strike, it wasn't a hostile move that CCC had to protect against. IMO that goes to the heart of the JR, if Sisu planned for admin (and the creation of Otium, moving assets, the rent strike, the refusal to pay, the appointment of Appleton, etc.) whether legal in itself or not, it shows that there was an attack on ACL planned before the council approached YB. It was not illogical, it was a response to a real threat.

IMO the rest of Sisu's argument is nothing but speculation and hyberbole ("ACL would have been better with us" "The Claimants have also improved the Club’s footballing fortunes" etc.).

Godiva said:

If you have vaguely followed some of my posts, I am sure you'll recognise that I have said as much many times.

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It's rare that you find someone that is so in love with themselves.