Derby points deduction

Mcbean

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Jul 17, 2015
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They may have to go to League 2 before they recover - sound familiar - lineker and incester got away with a big one
 

Frostie

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Jan 31, 2011
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You've got it all wrong, the club & owner are blameless.
They've been victimised by the EFL & Covid (which has only affected them of course).

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Sky Blue Harry H

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What is really good for our football club is that assuming Derby get relegated and that Forest cannot recover from their malaise, only one of the three previously promoted L1 teams is likely to sink with them. That means (assuming we didn't reach the promised land this season) that we would have (imo) a safety net of weak(er) teams to face in The Championship next season. We all hoped that this season we could establish ourselves this season, and - despite the dramatic start - that would still be a great accomplishment, Beat Millwall and Posh though, and @Otis will be piling in for cheap train tickets to Wembley.
 
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Londonccfcfan

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Oct 12, 2015
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What is really good for our football club is that assuming Derby get relegated and that Forest cannot recover from their malaise, only one of the three previously promoted L1 teams is likely to sink with them. That means (assuming we didn't reach the promised land this season) that we would have (imo) a safety net of weak(er) teams to face in The Championship next season. We all hoped that this season we could establish ourselves this season, and - despite the dramatic start to this season - that would still be a great accomplishment, Beat Millwall and Posh though, and @Otis will be piling in for cheap train tickets to Wembley.
Good point.
But it looks like the monster which is Sunderland looks likely to replace Derby/Forest and posibly Sheffield Wednesday both bigger than Forest/Derby.

Especially when you consider cant really see Hull, Posh or Blackppools revenues increasing in their 2nd year like ours has done significantly through an extra 8-10k on gates per match.
 
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PUSB-We_are_going_up

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Just thought I would share these from what I have seen on the socials 🙂
986AA0CF-7EDA-4A86-AFDE-66E9F99368FA.jpeg
2B4E6805-0608-4D7D-BA33-D11790045BDE.jpeg
DC83E40B-2661-44E0-A38D-24A9B490A5E6.jpeg
While I agree with the comment on the ESL, these comments are a joke, where was this when Sheffield Wednesday got their’s…. Nowhere as it was deserved, do they think they are above everyone else?
We know how this feels so do teams like Portsmouth and Macclesfield and more, its not the be all or end all its the fucking rules follow them
 
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Sky Blue Harry H

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Good point.
But it looks like the monster which is Sunderland looks likely to replace Derby/Forest and posibly Sheffield Wednesday both bigger than Forest/Derby.

Especially when you consider cant really see Hull, Posh or Blackppools revenues increasing in their 2nd year like ours has done significantly through an extra 8-10k on gates per match.
Good points re: potentially promoted clubs. I personally view Forest/Derby as similar sized clubs to Sheff Wed, Sunderland are a strange one, but obviously have everything in their favour (albeit they are top of their league, I don't think they have a strong squad, and will need a huge overhaul) Fanbase and ££££s they do have, though (assuming they have access to the billionaire's funds). Still don't want Ipswich to come up, as despite their woeful start, I think they have a few Championship level players who haven't managed to gel yet, and seem to have £££s available.
 
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Ccfcisparks

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May 13, 2011
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Just thought I would share these from what I have seen on the socials 🙂
View attachment 21850
View attachment 21851
View attachment 21852
While I agree with the comment on the ESL, these comments are a joke, where was this when Sheffield Wednesday got their’s…. Nowhere as it was deserved, do they think they are above everyone else?
We know how this feels so do teams like Portsmouth and Macclesfield and more, its not the be all or end all its the fucking rules follow them
What a load of hogwash that is from the Villa fan
 

Legia Sky Blue

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Nov 12, 2017
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As long as the club still exist I don't see how the fans are hurt anymore than by having a crap team or a crap manager. Poor decisions have been made by the club owners, and their fate as a result is just part and parcel of the ups and downs of supporting a football team. Us and many others have suffered the same fate. If they are relegated this season, they will still make their way back to the Championship in due course, and probably quicker than we did.
 

PUSB-We_are_going_up

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Jun 5, 2020
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As long as the club still exist I don't see how the fans are hurt anymore than by having a crap team or a crap manager. Poor decisions have been made by the club owners, and their fate as a result is just part and parcel of the ups and downs of supporting a football team. Us and many others have suffered the same fate. If they are relegated this season, they will still make their way back to the Championship in due course, and probably quicker than we did.
They are lucky they have the money to get back quicker if needed
 

Mcbean

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Jul 17, 2015
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The only thing you notice as you go down is the interest publicly in the club from tv radio etc diminishes - we almost disappeared in league 2 - Derby get pretty a story every day in the daily telegraph because of Wayne Rooney and the journo being a Derby supporter - do we think Rooney will stay to league 2 not sure !
 

chiefdave

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Sep 27, 2008
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While I agree with the comment on the ESL, these comments are a joke, where was this when Sheffield Wednesday got their’s…. Nowhere as it was deserved, do they think they are above everyone else?
We know how this feels so do teams like Portsmouth and Macclesfield and more, its not the be all or end all its the fucking rules follow them
Its the same every time. Nobody gives a shit as every other club thinks it will never happen to them. What's even stranger is that those who have been through it don't learn from their mistakes.

Pompey went into admin multiple times but still there fans didn't express any concern when ridiculous money was being spent as they were winning the FA Cup and playing in Europe. Remember when they were very close to going pop and in L2 there was a phone in on their local radio where they asked fans if they'd swap their success in recent years for financial stability and the majority of callers said no! Couple of seasons of fan ownership and they were demanding the club be sold to the first person who promised to open the cheque book.

We're seeing the same with our supporters. Despite all the trouble we've had in recent years the number of people demanding the owners 'invest' in the club with no chance of a return but every chance of causing further financial issues amazes me.
 

PUSB-We_are_going_up

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
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Its the same every time. Nobody gives a shit as every other club thinks it will never happen to them. What's even stranger is that those who have been through it don't learn from their mistakes.

Pompey went into admin multiple times but still there fans didn't express any concern when ridiculous money was being spent as they were winning the FA Cup and playing in Europe. Remember when they were very close to going pop and in L2 there was a phone in on their local radio where they asked fans if they'd swap their success in recent years for financial stability and the majority of callers said no! Couple of seasons of fan ownership and they were demanding the club be sold to the first person who promised to open the cheque book.

We're seeing the same with our supporters. Despite all the trouble we've had in recent years the number of people demanding the owners 'invest' in the club with no chance of a return but every chance of causing further financial issues amazes me.
Thats quite an interesting point actually, let us hope the Club continues to only spend with money we have rather than go back into a financial crisis
 

Flying Fokker

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Mar 24, 2011
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Just thought I would share these from what I have seen on the socials 🙂
View attachment 21850
View attachment 21851
View attachment 21852
While I agree with the comment on the ESL, these comments are a joke, where was this when Sheffield Wednesday got their’s…. Nowhere as it was deserved, do they think they are above everyone else?
We know how this feels so do teams like Portsmouth and Macclesfield and more, its not the be all or end all its the fucking rules follow them
I guess Derby achieved getting out of the Championship the wrong way?
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2011
2,927
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As long as the club still exist I don't see how the fans are hurt anymore than by having a crap team or a crap manager. Poor decisions have been made by the club owners, and their fate as a result is just part and parcel of the ups and downs of supporting a football team. Us and many others have suffered the same fate. If they are relegated this season, they will still make their way back to the Championship in due course, and probably quicker than we did.
If anything DCFC fans are in a far better position than we were/ are? Although they also have no ground it leaves them vulnerable. It also irks me that they have traded on 1.5 million losses per week. That is as much an EFL issue as the clubs. We have it in the premiership as well but solvency underpins long term viability of course. All clubs should be investigated and given 12 months to put their house in order of be expelled from the league.
 

Terry_dactyl

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Sep 26, 2017
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Its the same every time. Nobody gives a shit as every other club thinks it will never happen to them. What's even stranger is that those who have been through it don't learn from their mistakes.

Pompey went into admin multiple times but still there fans didn't express any concern when ridiculous money was being spent as they were winning the FA Cup and playing in Europe. Remember when they were very close to going pop and in L2 there was a phone in on their local radio where they asked fans if they'd swap their success in recent years for financial stability and the majority of callers said no! Couple of seasons of fan ownership and they were demanding the club be sold to the first person who promised to open the cheque book.

We're seeing the same with our supporters. Despite all the trouble we've had in recent years the number of people demanding the owners 'invest' in the club with no chance of a return but every chance of causing further financial issues amazes me.
Sort of, I think. Certainly agree that a lot of fans wouldn’t have swapped the FA Cup win for anything else. Let’s face it, Pompey were unlikely to win anything without serious investment…my dad got to see them win the cup!

As for selling to Eisner, I think this was an acknowledgement that the club couldn’t grow under the fan ownership and needed investment, especially to fratton park. IIRC Eisner’s purchase was greeted with cautious optimism. He reassured fans he wasn’t there to throw lots of money at the team, and wanted steady progress with a solid business model, including ground investment. Almost the exact opposite of the promises of previous owners.
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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Sort of, I think. Certainly agree that a lot of fans wouldn’t have swapped the FA Cup win for anything else. Let’s face it, Pompey were unlikely to win anything without serious investment…my dad got to see them win the cup!
Yeah, that's always a difficult one. Gretna are the example I always think of. Would certainly never have got anywhere near a major cup final in their country without investment, their owner falling seriously ill so withdrawing was arguably unlucky, but was falling down to non league (again) after experiencing those highs worth it? Arguably, they gained an experience far beyond trudging round in Scottish non league / the bottom divisions because of it.

As for fan ownership, the system in this country isn't set up for it to progress clubs. It can stabilise them, save them, but (as the system's set up) you want to go forward, you kind of have to accept dealing with the devil. The only benefit is that you'd hope a fan-owned club would pause to pick the right owner... albeit Munto Finance for Notts County would suggest judgement isn't always there!
 
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oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
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Trouble is fans associate team performance to financial stability. You see it on this forum, we are winning so everything is fine for a lot of fans. BUT it simply is not the case.

The information is out there for all clubs for very basic assessment. I dont mean detailed stuff like I try to produce. Simply ask some basic questions

- does the club make a profit, or got a history of losses
- has the club signed expensive players but income falling,
- is the team struggling
- is debt growing
- has the owner slowed or stopped funding the losses/debt

You probably don't need more than that to form a reasonable assessment. The alarm bells at Derby should have been sounding off loud and clear several seasons ago. At that time there was more opportunity to avoid today's mess. But fans and authorities simply turn a blind eye and let owners go on and go on far too long

But fans at Derby happily went along with finances built on sand because the ownership were showing "ambition ". Didnt occur to any one that it was ego leading to catastrophe. If you accept that then hard to then bleat when it goes tits up

So whilst the situation is awful and should never have happened I don't have too much sympathy for the fans. Its called having to take the rough with the smooth. Do I want the fans to lose their club absolutely not but it is the time for a reckoning to rebalance things. That means travelling down the divisions I am afraid, it shouldn't mean losing the club though. There will still be a Derby team to support. What the fans are lamenting really is that it won't be as high up the leagues as they feel entitled to be. Sorry but had they not cooked the books they wouldn't have been as high up in the first place, maybe never be faced with administration either.

I also suspect that the reason no one will buy is because the man who bears most responsibility wants too much out for himself.

To claim it is all the fault of covid is simply disingenuous, even more so when the team loses 1.5m pm and has made loses for years

The people I do feel sorry for are all the suppliers, especially local ones who will lose out financially by any administration at a time where business is struggling. Players etc will get paid of course- football creditors rules nonsense

Harsh assessment I know but football authorities and football fans need to get in the real world. Football cannot keep shafting others and communities simply because its football. That is not acceptable is it ?
 
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Terry_dactyl

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Sep 26, 2017
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Trouble is fans associate team performance to financial stability. You see it on this forum, we are winning so everything is fine for a lot of fans. BUT it simply is not the case.

The information is out there for all clubs for very basic assessment. I dont mean detailed stuff like I try to produce. Simply ask some basic questions

- does the club make a profit, or got a history of losses
- has the club signed expensive players but income falling,
- is the team struggling
- is debt growing
- has the owner slowed or stopped funding the losses/debt

You probably don't need more than that to form a reasonable assessment. The alarm bells at Derby should have been sounding off loud and clear several seasons ago. At that time there was more opportunity to avoid today's mess. But fans and authorities simply turn a blind eye and let owners go on and go on far too long

But fans at Derby happily went along with finances built on sand because the ownership were showing "ambition ". Didnt occur to any one that it was ego leading to catastrophe. If you accept that then hard to then bleat when it goes tits up

So whilst the situation is awful and should never have happened I don't have too much sympathy for the fans. Its called having to take the rough with the smooth. Do I want the fans to lose their club absolutely not but it is the time for a reckoning to rebalance things. That means travelling down the divisions I am afraid, it shouldn't mean losing the club though.

I also suspect that the reason no one will buy is because the man who bears most responsibility wants too much out for himself.

To claim it is all the fault of covid is simply disingenuous, even more so when the team loses 1.5m pw and has made loses for years

The people I do feel sorry for are all the suppliers, especially local ones who will lose out financially by any administration at a time where business is struggling. Players etc will get paid of course- football creditors rules nonsense

Harsh assessment I know but football authorities and football fans need to get in the real world. Football cannot keep shafting others and communities simply because its football. That is not acceptable is it ?
I dunno…I’m not convinced fans have that much sway in the actions of owners. Man Utd are a case in point. A significant number of fans have made their feelings clear about the owners…nothing has happened.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

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I dunno…I’m not convinced fans have that much sway in the actions of owners. Man Utd are a case in point. A significant number of fans have made their feelings clear about the owners…nothing has happened.
Well this is because unlike in Germany we encourage clubs to whore themselves out to the highest bidder and fans have lost their stakes in the club or to even have boardroom representation. Applause for Wolves running up obscene losses to go up, tears for Derby messing it up and too few challenging the broken system.
 

no_loyalty

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Feb 24, 2015
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That’s alright Gary Lineker everyone can just do what your club did and find a billionaire who is happy writing off enormous sums of money
Add in the fact they didn’t suffer a points deduction and kept all their best players, a lot of companies who help build the crisp bowl lost thousands of pounds.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
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I dunno…I’m not convinced fans have that much sway in the actions of owners. Man Utd are a case in point. A significant number of fans have made their feelings clear about the owners…nothing has happened.
They don't but they have opportunities and a voice to raise the alarm to FA PL EFL etc.

Generally though fans, quite rightly are focused on how the team plays.

EFL isn't funded to investigate doesn't have the man power and that's one of the biggest problems

When fans buy into the fantasy then they also buy in to the reality of it all going wrong. If they haven't asked the obvious questions but simply gone along with it that's when I lose sympathy
 

robbiethemole

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Apr 18, 2010
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That’s alright Gary Lineker everyone can just do what your club did and find a billionaire who is happy writing off enormous sums of money
More bullshit from Lineker Lesta cheated their way into and out of admin,Mandaric bought them for £4m and they got away with just an embargo not points penalty. the EFL changed the rules after that so Direby need to suck it up
 

the rumpo kid

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Jan 30, 2013
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Did they not change the rules too after Leicester exploited them to write off all debt (without points deductions? - or timing of deductions changing??)
Leicester fucked everyone over that's why the rules were changed, even stiffed the builders of there shit ground, that's why they can't get a safety certificate for anything else but football , bunch of wankers.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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Did they not change the rules too after Leicester exploited them to write off all debt (without points deductions? - or timing of deductions changing??)
It was them doing that then going up with an unaffected squad that brought in the point deductions afterwards. They've been more than lucky in the last 20 years
 
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