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Defensive coach / Goalkeeping coach (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter higgs
  • Start date Dec 22, 2024
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 22, 2024
  • #36
SBT said:
If I’m honest, I do think we need more coaches like Lawrence who do everything right behind the scenes, and less coaches like Williams who do everything wrong. Instant success.
Click to expand...

Or we could have more people whose remit is literally in their job title but exonerate them from any responsibility for that area when it's failing.
 
Reactions: chiefdave

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #37
clint van damme said:
I never said Ales Williams ruined anyone.
I've said we've constantly had issues with our keepers and as goal keeping coach he has to take some responsibility.

The fact Moore is playing for a team chasing the autos proves that with the right coaching he's better than he showed 2nd season here.
Click to expand...

I think it is clear, that Moore was experiencing off field problems, without the club stating what they were.

But people still like to bash the goalkeeping coach for that loss of confidence/form.
 
Reactions: Viktor17

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #38
Hobo said:
I think it is clear, that Moore was experiencing off field problems, without the club stating what they were.

But people still like to bash the goalkeeping coach for that loss of confidence/form.
Click to expand...

It's not just one keeper though, it's every one.
I doubt there's another team in the league with a catalogue of goal keeping howlers like ours over the last few years.

Questions have to be asked of the goal keeping coach.
 
Reactions: Para1140 and Chris1987
V

Viktor17

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #39
Hobo said:
I think it is clear, that Moore was experiencing off field problems, without the club stating what they were.

But people still like to bash the goalkeeping coach for that loss of confidence/form.
Click to expand...
SM 100% had some pretty shitty off field stuff going on. Shame as he was excellent in first season.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #40
clint van damme said:
It's not just one keeper though, it's every one.
I doubt there's another team in the league with a catalogue of goal keeping howlers like ours over the last few years.

Questions have to be asked of the goal keeping coach.
Click to expand...

There are lots of questions to ask, not just about a coach or coaches.

Before Williams people blamed Oggy. I bet most have never seen either coach a single session.

Having heard Oggy on the radio he knows a lot about tactics etc and not just from a goalkeeping perspective. His knowledge is very good.

There is a difference between asking questions and people wading in with statements like they are fact.

Collectively the team have been poor at defending, even at the end of last season and this. Lots of people have to shoulder the blame. Even when Viveash and Lawrence was here we were making errors as a team defending. Viveash was a centre half so he knew how to defend. It's not all down to the goalkeeping coach.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #41
Hobo said:
There are lots of questions to ask, not just about a coach or coaches.

Before Williams people blamed Oggy. I bet most have never seen either coach a single session.

Having heard Oggy on the radio he knows a lot about tactics etc and not just from a goalkeeping perspective. His knowledge is very good.

There is a difference between asking questions and people wading in with statements like they are fact.

Collectively the team have been poor at defending, even at the end of last season and this. Lots of people have to shoulder the blame. Even when Viveash and Lawrence was here we were making errors as a team defending. Viveash was a centre half so he knew how to defend. It's not all down to the goalkeeping coach.
Click to expand...

We've got a keeper who is conceding more than the amount of goals he's expected to and is bottom of the league for that metric.
It may not all be down to the goalkeeping coach, (I mean, why does he keep getting picked?), but he definitely has a decent amount of responsibility.
 
Reactions: Para1140

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #42
clint van damme said:
We've got a keeper who is conceding more than the amount of goals he's expected to and is bottom of the league for that metric.
It may not all be down to the goalkeeping coach, (I mean, why does he keep getting picked?), but he definitely has a decent amount of responsibility.
Click to expand...

Goals conceded aren't always down to the goalkeeper or the goalkeeping coach though.

But you are obviously like a dog with a bone so I will leave it there.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #43
Hobo said:
Goals conceded aren't always down to the goalkeeper or the goalkeeping coach though.

But you are obviously like a dog with a bone so I will leave it there.
Click to expand...

Come on, look at the goals we've been conceding.
Many of them have been very much down to the goal keeper.
I was one of the people defending Collins after the Cardiff game when I thought he took some unfair criticism, but his stats are dreadful and the evidence of what your watching is there for anyone viewing our games.
 
Reactions: Para1140 and Chris1987

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #44
clint van damme said:
Come on, look at the goals we've been conceding.
Many of them have been very much down to the goal keeper.
I was one of the people defending Collins after the Cardiff game when I thought he took some unfair criticism, but his stats are dreadful and the evidence of what your watching is there for anyone viewing our games.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree about his stats. Perhaps he is just a bad keeper? I have never seen anything positive in him and said from the outset he looked like an accident waiting to happen and he got away with a lot early on. But I suspect Viveash thought he had something?

Now you come on, Collins hasn't always always been in goal when we have been conceding goals. There has been consistent frailties in our defence collectively going back to the second half of last season. With the team turning up for big games and being shy in others.

If you can't see it hasn't always been the keepers fault (despite some howlers) or even a defenders fault, then I don't know what team you have been watching.

I do agree that we need better than Collins in goal and we need a better LB/LWB than JDS. Because they seem more culpable than most. Also they both seem the type of player that when they do make a mistake it seems to affect them and their confidence drains quicker than a bath without a plug.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #45
Hobo said:
I don't disagree about his stats. Perhaps he is just a bad keeper? I have never seen anything positive in him and said from the outset he looked like an accident waiting to happen and he got away with a lot early on. But I suspect Viveash thought he had something?

Now you come on, Collins hasn't always always been in goal when we have been conceding goals. There has been consistent frailties in our defence collectively going back to the second half of last season. With the team turning up for big games and being shy in others.

If you can't see it hasn't always been the keepers fault (despite some howlers) or even a defenders fault, then I don't know what team you have been watching.

I do agree that we need better than Collins in goal and we need a better LB/LWB than JDS. Because they seem more culpable than most. Also they both seem the type of player that when they do make a mistake it seems to affect them and their confidence drains quicker than a bath without a plug.
Click to expand...

But it's the howlers I'm on about.
Our keepers seem to go through these car crash periods with alarming regularity.

It's been happening for years.
 
Reactions: Chris1987

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #46
clint van damme said:
But it's the howlers I'm on about.
Our keepers seem to go through these car crash periods with alarming regularity.

It's been happening for years.
Click to expand...

Well Robins had the chance to get rid with his coaching shake up, so did King.

King also has a second chance when he got rid of Robins and a third chance when he brought in Lampard.

Where I stand is I know our keepers aren't very good and as I have never seen Williams coach it's a bit like comparing apples and pears.

For instance, I would not say Viveash was a bad coach having been given some of the best talent in the country, but none could establish themselves in the Chelsea first team. There is a whole host of reasons that happened. Also all sorts of reasons why some went elsewhere and made it and some came to Coventry and flopped. It's not all down to the coach.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #47
Hobo said:
Well Robins had the chance to get rid with his coaching shake up, so did King.

King also has a second chance when he got rid of Robins and a third chance when he brought in Lampard.

Where I stand is I know our keepers aren't very good and as I have never seen Williams coach it's a bit like comparing apples and pears.

For instance, I would not say Viveash was a bad coach having been given some of the best talent in the country, but none could establish themselves in the Chelsea first team. There is a whole host of reasons that happened. Also all sorts of reasons why some went elsewhere and made it and some came to Coventry and flopped. It's not all down to the coach.
Click to expand...

But with the outfield players, yes, there have been failures, but there's been a lot of successes as well

When was the last keeper we had who notably improved?
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #48
clint van damme said:
But with the outfield players, yes, there have been failures, but there's been a lot of successes as well

When was the last keeper we had who notably improved?
Click to expand...

First point Williams isn't responsible for who is signed and who he has to work with.

Also coaches have more outfield players to work with so have a great chance of success because of the numbers.

Also I think the standard of goalkeeping isn't what it was across the board in this country. But that is another matter altogether.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 23, 2024
  • #49
clint van damme said:
But with the outfield players, yes, there have been failures, but there's been a lot of successes as well

When was the last keeper we had who notably improved?
Click to expand...
Quite honestly Ben Wilson
 
Reactions: Hobo
J

JoeCCFCPUSB

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #50
Sorry but

4 against Pompey
1 against hull
2 against WBA
2 against Cardiff
2 against Sheffield United
2 against Sunderland
2 against Luton
2 against Burnley
2 against Derby
2 against Shef Wed
3 against Leeds
2 against Swansea
2 against Oxford

Ain't fucking nobody out here blaming that on Sheaf, Eccles and Torp


Come on that's your centre backs, your full backs and your keeper.
 
Reactions: M3rcian, robbiethemole and Para1140

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #51
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Quite honestly Ben Wilson
Click to expand...

Before going to shit the following season.
It's never maintained.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #52
JoeCCFCPUSB said:
Sorry but

4 against Pompey
1 against hull
2 against WBA
2 against Cardiff
2 against Sheffield United
2 against Sunderland
2 against Luton
2 against Burnley
2 against Derby
2 against Shef Wed
3 against Leeds
2 against Swansea
2 against Oxford

Ain't fucking nobody out here blaming that on Sheaf, Eccles and Torp


Come on that's your centre backs, your full backs and your keeper.
Click to expand...
It's not just the numbers, it's that the quality of the goals is so poor, often just farcical.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Captain Dart and clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #53
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It's not just the numbers, it's that the quality of the goals is so poor, often just farcical.
Click to expand...

I thought the 2 goals we conceded against Sunderland were both well worked but a large percentage of the others we've conceded have been very poor.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #54
clint van damme said:
I thought the 2 goals we conceded against Sunderland were both well worked but a large percentage of the others we've conceded have been very poor.
Click to expand...
It's rare I look at an opposition goal and think it was well worked or a great bit of individual skill. Callum Lang scores 4 and you get a pot shot, a wellied one on one gift wrapped by Dasilva, a free header and a tap in. He won't have an easier game in his life.

Without beating the same drum, we could at least make things simpler for the players by not bringing so many back for set pieces. Give people fewer things to learn and less things to concentrate on during the week and during a game.

I compare how things are going to the problems Man Utd are riddled with. Another squad with a toxic collective mentality where you can't predict what performance is going to come next. Oh, and they love conceding free headers in a packed 6 yard box too.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #55
JoeCCFCPUSB said:
Sorry but

4 against Pompey
1 against hull
2 against WBA
2 against Cardiff
2 against Sheffield United
2 against Sunderland
2 against Luton
2 against Burnley
2 against Derby
2 against Shef Wed
3 against Leeds
2 against Swansea
2 against Oxford

Ain't fucking nobody out here blaming that on Sheaf, Eccles and Torp


Come on that's your centre backs, your full backs and your keeper.
Click to expand...

Mistakes in midfield can expose the defence and leave them overloaded.

Torp, Eccles, Sheaf and Rudoni have all made individual errors in games that have done just that. Yes defenders have made individual errors too.

But it is too simplistic to look at the goals conceded and just heap it all on the defenders and the keepers.
 
Reactions: M3rcian

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #56
clint van damme said:
We've had a succession of goalkeepers who are abject failures who have declined rather than improved.
Click to expand...

by 'succession' you mean Moore and Collins (a grand total of two!), one of which we all know was knocked back by off the field stuff. Like SBT said, can we all try to stop windmilling when we're bored and frustrated. I don't think the coaches told Collins to go out and play like he'd been doing bong hits.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #57
mmttww said:
by 'succession' you mean Moore and Collins (a grand total of two!), one of which we all know was knocked back by off the field stuff. Like SBT said, can we all try to stop windmilling when we're bored and frustrated. I don't think the coaches told Collins to go out and play like he'd been doing bong hits.
Click to expand...

He worked with Marosi before that who also went to shit, admittedly post serious injury, and Wilson, won golden gloves then started his own collection of howlers.
And there's clearly something going on with Dovin though I've no idea what.

So, yeah, that's a succession.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #58
clint van damme said:
So, yeah, that's a succession.
Click to expand...

Wilson barely had to make a save in the playoff season and there's data to show that. He was always at the level he showed last season. Dovin is a kid in a new country who had to miss a couple of games with a concussion. Don't edit history to suit your argument.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #59
mmttww said:
Wilson barely had to make a save in the playoff season and there's data to show that. He was always at the level he showed last season. Dovin is a kid in a new country who had to miss a couple of games with a concussion. Don't edit history to suit your argument.
Click to expand...

So Wilson was as bad in the play off season as the following season, one when he won the golden gloves the other when he got dropped in October.
OK then.
And you talk about editing history!

As for Dovin, if he can't get in ahead of Collins then he should give up
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #60
clint van damme said:
And you talk about editing history!
Click to expand...

or I'm pointing out Wilson had protection in that season which masked how good a keeper he is / isn't. If Dovin doesn't get in ahead of Collins, I agree, something's up but it doesn't mean our coaches have ruined him in the few months he's been here.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #61
mmttww said:
or I'm pointing out Wilson had protection in that season which masked how good a keeper he is / isn't. If Dovin doesn't get in ahead of Collins, I agree, something's up but it doesn't mean our coaches have ruined him in the few months he's been here.
Click to expand...

But they just don't seem to have any record of improving keepers though.
It seems to me to have been a problem position for ages and just when we think we've cracked it it all goes wrong.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #62
mmttww said:
Wilson barely had to make a save in the playoff season and there's data to show that. He was always at the level he showed last season. Dovin is a kid in a new country who had to miss a couple of games with a concussion. Don't edit history to suit your argument.
Click to expand...
That isn’t why he was dropped first time.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #63
clint van damme said:
Before going to shit the following season.
It's never maintained.
Click to expand...
Wilson is a miles better keeper today than he was when he first joined. And I say that as someone who’s never rated him.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #64
Brighton Sky Blue said:
That isn’t why he was dropped first time.
Click to expand...

I know, but we're talking about here and now.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #65
clint van damme said:
It seems to me to have been a problem position for ages and just when we think we've cracked it it all goes wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a good reason to doubt Dovin will work out, yet. If he can't get game time between now and the end of the season, I'll be worried.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #66
clint van damme said:
But they just don't seem to have any record of improving keepers though.
It seems to me to have been a problem position for ages and just when we think we've cracked it it all goes wrong.
Click to expand...
Signing a rookie from Sweden wasn't necessary but I suppose Doug again saw pound signs. Loads of wise old heads knocking around who aren't getting game time and know how to co-ordinate a defence too.

Even if we didn't want one of those Johansson who is a known quantity in this league was available at a fixed price and has turned out fine for Stoke.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 24, 2024
  • #67
Wyken Sky Blue said:
Get Petr Cech and John Terry in, teach three spinless wankers how to defend and not concede

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Have you never heard of the saying, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

"Be unable to turn something ugly or inferior into something attractive or of value"
 
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