Coventry Transport Museum - Racists (1 Viewer)

[bigfatronssba]

My Brother come across this whilst looking for a job. He likes history so by chance looked on the Transport Museums website.

Seems to me like complete racism.

A job spec for an apprentice type job at the museum, which states:

This traineeship is only to individuals who are of either African, African-
Caribbean, Asian or Chinese descent

Here is the link so it can be seen in full context:

http://www.transport-museum.com/_userfiles/pages/files/HistoryCentreTrainee.pdf

and on their website:

http://www.transport-museum.com/gettinginvolved/WorkAtTheMuseum.aspx it comes under Role Description: ACE History Centre Trainee (PDF)

Is this a case of racism only works one way?

 

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[FRY-CCFC]

shut up honky

 

[ajsccfc]

Us white people never catch a break.

 

[Covstu]

its a strange one to be fair, the JD seems quite general so I am not sure they could use 'positive discrimination' as a way out as there isn't really a proper rationale for it. Do you know what they would be doing specifically as it clearly isn't for Black history any anything as specific as that is it?

Personally I would get your bro to apply for it and see what reaction they give!!!

 

[Nick]

Maybe they have to employ by law different races but surely you wouldn't make it so obvious?

 

[bigfatronssba]

its a strange one to be fair, the JD seems quite general so I am not sure they could use 'positive discrimination' as a way out as there isn't really a proper rationale for it. Do you know what they would be doing specifically as it clearly isn't for Black history any anything as specific as that is it?

Personally I would get your bro to apply for it and see what reaction they give!!!

They claim on the main page that ethnic minorities are underrepresented in museums, but from what I can see that's not my brothers fault. What happened to giving a job to the best candidate?

I told him to apply for it, and claim he is of African descent. Isn't every human on the planted descended from Africans?

 

[Grendel]

They claim on the main page that ethnic minorities are underrepresented in museums, but from what I can see that's not my brothers fault. What happened to giving a job to the best candidate?

I told him to apply for it, and claim he is of African descent. Isn't every human on the planted descended from Africans?

That's the council for you eh? Yet you think they are perfect owners of you favourite community asset.

 

[bigfatronssba]

That's the council for you eh? Yet you think they are perfect owners of you favourite community asset.

Yes, because I agree with them on one issue means I have to agree with them on everything doesn't it?

Also I very much doubt the council have much say over its day to day running.

 

[Grendel]

Yes, because I agree with them on one issue means I have to agree with them on everything doesn't it?

Also I very much doubt the council have much say over its day to day running.

That was a joke and for what it's worth I 100% support the decision and believe we need a lot more initiatives like this.

 

[bigfatronssba]

That was a joke and for what it's worth I 100% support the decision and believe we need a lot more initiatives like this.

You believe in racism? Or is it that form of "positive racism" that left wing intellectuals seem to love?

 

[Grendel]

You believe in racism? Or is it that form of "positive racism" that left wing intellectuals seem to love?

I think the phrase you are struggling with is "positive discrimination" - yes I support that in certain situations and this is clearly one if they is a disproportionately low number of ethnic minorities employed in these roles.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I think the phrase you are struggling with is "positive discrimination" - yes I support that in certain situations and this is clearly one if they is a disproportionately low number of ethnic minorities employed in these roles.

I don't agree with that at all. I don't see how any discrimination is positive. Once you justify discrimination against one group of people, it legitimises it against all.

Do you agree that Indian restaurants should be forced to take on white employees as they are disproportionately represented in that industry?

 

[Grendel]

I don't agree with that at all. I don't see how any discrimination is positive. Once you justify discrimination against one group of people, it legitimises it against all.

Do you agree that Indian restaurants should be forced to take on white employees as they are disproportionately represented in that industry?

The hard fact is if in this country in many professions you are black or disabled you are less likely to be employed if you really want ill tell you some real situations where I know this has occurred. I think this whole thread has racist undertones.

 

[bigfatronssba]

The hard fact is if in this country in many professions you are black or disabled you are less likely to be employed if you really want ill tell you some real situations where I know this has occurred. I think this whole thread has racist undertones.

I don't deny that discrimination exists against Black or Asians, disabled, women etc.

However I have yet to hear a valid argument about how discriminating against another group of society is the answer.

Also would you care to clarify the "racist undertones"?

All I was pointing out with this thread is that the Coventry Transport Museum discriminates against certain members of the community based on the colour of their skin.

 

[tbh444]

Encouraging greater representation by positive action / promotion / persuasion etc. is a great idea but stuff like this seems more like negative action, and think in the long run it's counter-productive as it could turn many reasonable people against the wider cause

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Hi Ash, have you got a problem with Grendel ? I think the pair of you should grow a moustache each for Movember, then share a big hairy kiss and make up (but not out) Oops - think your angry post may have been deleted!

 

[smouch1975]

Is the position perhaps for giving lectures on African built cars and their manufacturing history?

 

[chiefdave]

Quotas and positive discrimination has never seemed to me a great way to solve the problem as the person in the job will always have 'you only got the job as you're asian / african etc'. Might be worth a call to them to see why it is this way, could be that they've had funding for the role which requires them to employ a minority, amazingly that's perfectly legal.

 

[asb]

The position is funded by Arts Council England (ACE), they are within the law to recruit in the way they are.

The Equality Act 2010 allows for what is deemed Positive action. What this means is that an employer can recruit based on a protected characteristic for training in areas that the holders of the protected characteristic are under-represented. A protected characteristic is seen as such things as Age, Disability, Gender, Pregnancy, Race, Religion, Sex, Sexual Orientation, etc.

The aim for Positive action as set out in law was for it to act as a tie-breaker in situations where there are multiple equally qualified individuals, so being used at the end of the recruitment process.

Having looked at the Job advert it is clear that they are applying the Positive action at the start. While not illegal, it can appear to be more like positive discrimination, which is illegal under UK law.

The term Positive discrimination refers to when an employer recruits based solely on a protected characteristic. The law in the UK is blind, it does not judge who is the discriminated and who is discriminating. Being in a minority does not allow you to discriminate against the majority, and vice versa. For the action to be legal there has to be Proportionate and Reasonable reasons for the Positive action. For example it is reasonable and proportionate to discriminate against men when a job in a women's changing room is advertised. It is not reasonable and proportionate to discriminate against a pregnant women because you don't wish to train someone else to do the job once they take maternity leave.

It is being argued by ACE that there is an under-representation of ethnic minorities in the museums in the UK, due to people from those groups not being qualified to work in such an environment. They are seeking to address this skill gap by providing training.

The law in this issue is complex and can result in many good intentions backfiring.

I am a strong believer that instead of creating bypasses to get certain people past barriers we should instead aim to remove the barriers for all. The world we live in can be describe as a Kyriarchy, we are all disadvantaged at some point based on a characteristic that we can't change with ease.

 

[Flying Fokker]

My Brother come across this whilst looking for a job. He likes history so by chance looked on the Transport Museums website.

Seems to me like complete racism.

A job spec for an apprentice type job at the museum, which states:

This traineeship is only to individuals who are of either African, African-
Caribbean, Asian or Chinese descent

Here is the link so it can be seen in full context:

http://www.transport-museum.com/_userfiles/pages/files/HistoryCentreTrainee.pdf

and on their website:

http://www.transport-museum.com/gettinginvolved/WorkAtTheMuseum.aspx it comes under Role Description: ACE History Centre Trainee (PDF)

Is this a case of racism only works one way?

Poor person might be an a star pupil but end up standing still all day. The transport museum clearly have an imbalance of ethnic groups or they wouldn't advertise as they have.

Most people would get over this fairly quickly but maybe pull the train set out the loft if it continues?

 

[FRY-CCFC]

Anyone else find it funny that it's bigfatronssba talking about racism

 

[bigfatronssba]

Anyone else find it funny that it's bigfatronssba talking about racism

Well in fairness he did create the first team with 3 black players in it!

Thinking about quotas and things, 27% of that team was black. Is this not an over representation? We wouldn't want an ethnic imbalance now would we?

 

[Macca]

You can never have a sensible race based discussion in this country. A point that you make that cannot attract a valid reply usually ends in you being labelled racist yourself.

My opinion is that there are jobs where an applicant of a particular race may be preferred but can t see how it fits in this scenario.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Sometimes, the rationale for these situations arising, gets hidden by the action to correct them.

Maybe the reason, for there being less ethnic employees in this industry, is because those ethnic groups have a culture that is less attracted to, or interested in, transport, museum and history? Perhaps a lot of East Asian and Far East people are more interested in the growth economy of the world...ie technology? Perhaps African people have an attraction to sports, athletics, and football can be a route out of Africa for many youngsters?

Not saying that these are the reasons, but it is possible that the ethnicity employment figures are skewed by the type of job....no doubt someone will say I am racist for making this point, but it is not intended to be so.

 

[WillieStanley]

Equality goes hand in hand with diversity. Perhaps the museum requires a more diverse approach in order to better represent the city it serves. In which case, although it isn't inclusive, it offers a better, more comprehensive experience to what is, and always has been a massively multi-cultural city.

 

[WillieStanley]

Sometimes, the rationale for these situations arising, gets hidden by the action to correct them.

Maybe the reason, for there being less ethnic employees in this industry, is because those ethnic groups have a culture that is less attracted to, or interested in, transport, museum and history? Perhaps a lot of East Asian and Far East people are more interested in the growth economy of the world...ie technology? Perhaps African people have an attraction to sports, athletics, and football can be a route out of Africa for many youngsters?

Not saying that these are the reasons, but it is possible that the ethnicity employment figures are skewed by the type of job....no doubt someone will say I am racist for making this point, but it is not intended to be so.

Or perhaps prejudice limits their opportunities.

There's no shame in prejudice. It's a human thing. The trick is to be aware of them and learn how to balance them. Most people don't, which is why opportunities become limited.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Equality goes hand in hand with diversity. Perhaps the museum requires a more diverse approach in order to better represent the city it serves. In which case, although it isn't inclusive, it offers a better, more comprehensive experience to what is, and always has been a massively multi-cultural city.

In my opinion if you look at it like that then your judging someone on their colour. If they are saying we need greater ethnic mix to represent the Coventry population then surely that is putting a limit on how many Black or Asian people can work there?

The demographics of Coventry are currently 74% white, 16% Asian, 6% Black, 2.5% Mixed Race, 1.5% Other. Now if you start saying that jobs will be designated to match the ethnicity of the local population, then what happens if a local library has a 20% Asian work force? Should some of them be sacked in order for the library to greater represent its user base?

 

[kdrinkell]

In my opinion if you look at it like that then your judging someone on their colour. If they are saying we need greater ethnic mix to represent the Coventry population then surely that is putting a limit on how many Black or Asian people can work there?

The demographics of Coventry are currently 74% white, 16% Asian, 6% Black, 2.5% Mixed Race, 1.5% Other. Now if you start saying that jobs will be designated to match the ethnicity of the local population, then what happens if a local library has a 20% Asian work force? Should some of them be sacked in order for the library to greater represent its user base?

It is democracy gone mad,we are meant to be in a democracy where what someone thinks is up to them but if a white person does it no no no

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I would assume they have some ethnic diversity quotas to fulfil and they felt like they had to go out of their way to meet it. Quotas do nobody any good and actually devalue the appointment because it has been earned not out of merit but because the employer has no choice.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Or perhaps prejudice limits their opportunities.

There's no shame in prejudice. It's a human thing. The trick is to be aware of them and learn how to balance them. Most people don't, which is why opportunities become limited.

True, however forcing people to hire someone because of a gender, race, or sexuality based quota does no party any favours. If there is genuine discrimination in a recruitment process, that is of course wrong but sometimes an employer can only go off who they're presented with-if the field is all white men then there's not a great deal they can do.

The same applies to people from poorer backgrounds getting into universities-the universities themselves can't manipulate the application pool to get more people worthy of a place from those backgrounds. It's a societal issue and forcing it onto the recruiter won't fix it.