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Coventry pay to resurface Sixfields pitch as waggot predicts us playing there (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Pusb1
  • Start date Jul 30, 2014
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ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #106
I wonder if they have actually paid for it, or if they are disputing the price of the grass seed, but have deposited a sizeable sum into an account ready for it to be used when its been agreed with B&Q
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #107
Nick said:
Damn right you would, but it depends on the terms though doesn't it that were agreed.
Click to expand...

well, if they agreed to pay for the pitch after one season, its another masterstroke negotiation,

rather like "I would like to rent your house please, and I will be walking on the carpet, so I will replace it after a year"
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #108
Nick said:
Damn right you would, but it depends on the terms though doesn't it that were agreed.
Click to expand...

I think if you've rented a football stadium without thinking to check if there was a decent pitch you've made a slight oversight!
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #109
chiefdave said:
I think if you've rented a football stadium without thinking to check if there was a decent pitch you've made a slight oversight!
Click to expand...

ah, the old due dilligence
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #110
Nick said:
Damn right you would, but it depends on the terms though doesn't it that were agreed.
Click to expand...

Are you implying Sisu have signed a rental agreement that doesn't offer favourable terms?

I await the club moving to Cambridge in protest.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #111
DazzleTommyDazzle said:
SISU have explained to us all that they are building a new stadium, so the question is - what is best for the club in the interim period?

The answer is that they agree a deal to get back to the Ricoh.

In this context the much talked about issue of "match day revenues" is a virtual irrelevance. Pretty much any deal at the Ricoh will leave the club in a better position than more years on life support in Northampton.
Click to expand...

That's not something I disagree with DTD, but what is wrong with the Club being proactive just in case it doesn't happen?

A virtual irrelevance? I think that virtual irrelevance you are referring to is revenues that could entice CCFC back to the Ricoh for the long term.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #112
shmmeee said:
Nonsense Rob. There's no reason, especially financial, to be in Northampton. You've swallowed the bullshit hook line and sinker there mate.
Click to expand...

Did you read what you wanted to read Shmmeee? I clearly stated that everyone think that the Ricoh is clearly the best option, me included as I stated in another post, however the Club have to be proactive in this instance if the Ricoh return doesn't happen, what is wrong with that?
 
Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #113
ccfcway said:
you wouldn't expect a landlord to make repairs on a property ?
Click to expand...

You know that's not what Steve Waggott said or the intention of my post, yes NTFC are responsible for repairing the property however CCFC are allegedly making a gesture as CCFC are aware of the need to maintain the condition of the pitch, maybe it wasn't even asked for and CCFC did it off their own backs?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #114
RoboCCFC90 said:
Did you read what you wanted to read Shmmeee? I clearly stated that everyone think that the Ricoh is clearly the best option, me included as I stated in another post, however the Club have to be proactive in this instance it doesn't happen, what is wrong with that?
Click to expand...

He doesn't understand concepts of alternative strategies. He's been bred on council dogmatism since birth.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #115
And you have been brainwashed by ML.
Grendel said:
He doesn't understand concepts of alternative strategies. He's been bred on council dogmatism since birth.
Click to expand...
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #116
RoboCCFC90 said:
That's not something I disagree with DTD, but what is wrong with the Club being proactive just in case it doesn't happen?

A virtual irrelevance? I think that virtual irrelevance you are referring to is revenues that could entice CCFC back to the Ricoh for the long term.
Click to expand...

Read the CT Article Immediately after the JR result ,there Is No long Term deal to be achieved back at the RICOH.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #117
RoboCCFC90 said:
Did you read what you wanted to read Shmmeee? I clearly stated that everyone think that the Ricoh is clearly the best option, me included as I stated in another post, however the Club have to be proactive in this instance if the Ricoh return doesn't happen, what is wrong with that?
Click to expand...

Yes they have been Pro-active we are not headed back to Coventry.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #118
wingy said:
Read the CT Article Immediately after the JR result ,there Is No long Term deal to be achieved back at the RICOH.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

Anything is possible but it needs motive to do something about it, whether there is any I am not sure, but I think if a deal was put in place that could at long term ownership of ACL then then club would be over it.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #119
wingy said:
Yes they have been Pro-active we are not headed back to Coventry.
Click to expand...

CCFC has a prospect for returning to the Ricoh according to Tim Fisher, we haven't heard from anyone at ACL, surely a statement on there position is due?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #120
RoboCCFC90 said:
CCFC has a prospect for returning to the Ricoh according to Tim Fisher, we haven't heard from anyone at ACL, surely a statement on there position is due?
Click to expand...

I don't Do Liers.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #121
RoboCCFC90 said:
CCFC has a prospect for returning to the Ricoh according to Tim Fisher, we haven't heard from anyone at ACL, surely a statement on there position is due?
Click to expand...

In all honesty you have to be a bit suspicious of the open letter.

That said the real disappointment is the lack of attempt from our supporter groups to try and encourage the council and ACL to engage in dialogue now an offer is there. They could even attempt to attend a meeting and minute it and provide the details to the football league.

The trust you would think would do this. Kcic always want face to face meetings and already have an offer agreed by ACL. Yet these fan representatives remain silent.

Poor approach with a lack of strategic direction.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #122
Grendel said:
In all honesty you have to be a bit suspicious of the open letter.

That said the real disappointment is the lack of attempt from our supporter groups to try and encourage the council and ACL to engage in dialogue now an offer is there. They could even attempt to attend a meeting and minute it and provide the details to the football league.

The trust you would think would do this. Kcic always want face to face meetings and already have an offer agreed by ACL. Yet these fan representatives remain silent.

Poor approach with a lack of strategic direction.
Click to expand...

That could leave them looking very foolish.

As I said to Robo earlier in the thread ,read the statement in the CT directly after that JR result .

so no prospect of a longterm return or of any other franchise,it's as it was Grendel the rest is just dressing ,the barriers are introduced for one reason.

If It doesn't work out and they need to Build the folly ,that would be the only reason a potential short term deal would be sought ,to hold onto some form of fanbase when building a Stadium capable of hosting 7-10K somewhere in the area in the third Division.
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #123
RoboCCFC90 said:
I disagree.

Anything is possible but it needs motive to do something about it, whether there is any I am not sure, but I think if a deal was put in place that could at long term ownership of ACL then then club would be over it.
Click to expand...

You mean like a deal to buy it? Surely if that was the case why have Sisu not made a single offer to buy it and followed it through?
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #124
RoboCCFC90 said:
You know that's not what Steve Waggott said or the intention of my post, yes NTFC are responsible for repairing the property however CCFC are allegedly making a gesture as CCFC are aware of the need to maintain the condition of the pitch, maybe it wasn't even asked for and CCFC did it off their own backs?
Click to expand...

Why the feck are we paying anything towards it though? End of July and there is even grass on the parks pitches so what are we actually paying for, thicker grass, a deeper shade of green, grass that tickles your balls when you tackle or just more bullshit to try and force peoples hands. I'm afraid Waggot is cut from the same cloth as the other lying turds.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #125
Grendel said:
In all honesty you have to be a bit suspicious of the open letter.

That said the real disappointment is the lack of attempt from our supporter groups to try and encourage the council and ACL to engage in dialogue now an offer is there. They could even attempt to attend a meeting and minute it and provide the details to the football league.

The trust you would think would do this. Kcic always want face to face meetings and already have an offer agreed by ACL. Yet these fan representatives remain silent.

Poor approach with a lack of strategic direction.
Click to expand...

Mmmm. Agreed.

I would've thought GCBTTR would be the obvious choice here as self appointed council pressure group. KCIC and the Trust have both recently stated they won't be protesting. IIRC the Trust's last comment was "WHY NOT give Sisu access to revenues" etc. Which was basically the Sisu offer (along with the other side of WHY NOT drop the JR of course).

Of course, that does beg the question of whether ACL have actually received an offer. Last I heard it was with the FL, have we had confirmation it's been received?
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #126
Grendel said:
They can't be as they are on a fixed term contract. So they are entitled to have that honoured and can't be dismissed and be subject to normal employment laws.
Click to expand...
But surely as they offer their services to only one club/company, they must be employed.
They are allowed paternity leave (though i don't know of any who have take it), are paid when sick/injured and have money deducted and paid into their pension pots.
Like Wingy says, their image rights are a different matter and can be dealt with through a limited company.
The player will save an awful lot of tax, as corporation tax rates are much lower that the top rate of income tax.

FA Rules C 1 (b), C1 (c) and C2 (b) require that:
-all payments to a player are made by the Club and fully recorded in the accounting records
of the Club;
-all salaried payments to a player must be subject to PAYE and NI. This includes weekly
wages, performance bonuses (win, points, goals scored etc, share of prize money), loyalty
bonuses and signing on fees;
-where a player is paid expenses then payments are supported by an expenses claim form in
a format acceptable to HMRC and that such forms are retained by the Club;
-all payments and or benefits due and or made to a contract player must be set out in a
written agreement between the Club and the player and a copy provided to The FA;
-all amounts due to a contract player are set out in the contract and must be stated gross
before the deduction of PAYE and National Insurance.
-all player contracts must be in the full name of the Club and state the company number if
the Club is incorporated;
-contracts between a Club and a player must state that all amounts due are payable to the
player and not to any company or any agency acting on behalf of the player (ie a player
must be an employee of the Club and cannot be self employed).
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #127
Grendel said:
Poor approach with a lack of strategic direction.
Click to expand...

Top post Grendel. You have described SISU perfectly.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #128
Danceswithhorses said:
But surely as they offer their services to only one club/company, they must be employed.
They are allowed paternity leave (though i don't know of any who have take it), are paid when sick/injured and have money deducted and paid into their pension pots.
Like Wingy says, their image rights are a different matter and can be dealt with through a limited company.
The player will save an awful lot of tax, as corporation tax rates are much lower that the top rate of income tax.

FA Rules C 1 (b), C1 (c) and C2 (b) require that:
-all payments to a player are made by the Club and fully recorded in the accounting records
of the Club;
-all salaried payments to a player must be subject to PAYE and NI. This includes weekly
wages, performance bonuses (win, points, goals scored etc, share of prize money), loyalty
bonuses and signing on fees;
-where a player is paid expenses then payments are supported by an expenses claim form in
a format acceptable to HMRC and that such forms are retained by the Club;
-all payments and or benefits due and or made to a contract player must be set out in a
written agreement between the Club and the player and a copy provided to The FA;
-all amounts due to a contract player are set out in the contract and must be stated gross
before the deduction of PAYE and National Insurance.
-all player contracts must be in the full name of the Club and state the company number if
the Club is incorporated;
-contracts between a Club and a player must state that all amounts due are payable to the
player and not to any company or any agency acting on behalf of the player (ie a player
must be an employee of the Club and cannot be self employed).
Click to expand...

So if your plc has an agreed HR directive you can performance manage someone for 9 months and they under achieve you can fire them are you saying that a player on a 5 year contract can be fired for under performance?

How about a manager? Can he be sacked with no compensation for under performance against agreed targets?

Seriously that's rubbish. They are contractors to a plc,
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #129
The Gentleman said:
Why the feck are we paying anything towards it though? End of July and there is even grass on the parks pitches so what are we actually paying for, thicker grass, a deeper shade of green, grass that tickles your balls when you tackle or just more bullshit to try and force peoples hands. I'm afraid Waggot is cut from the same cloth as the other lying turds.
Click to expand...

Tell me more
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #130
Grendel said:
So if your plc has an agreed HR directive you can performance manage someone for 9 months and they under achieve you can fire them are you saying that a player on a 5 year contract can be fired for under performance?

How about a manager? Can he be sacked with no compensation for under performance against agreed targets?

Seriously that's rubbish. They are contractors to a plc,
Click to expand...

Regardless of what the situation is, I don't see why not. When Bosman came in they wanted to be treated like normal workers, they should be able to be sacked like them too.

I imagine like everything else in English football the clique of the PFA and the FL look after their own.
 

Como

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #131
Of course they can be sacked, with compensation.
 

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #132
Grendel said:
So if your plc has an agreed HR directive you can performance manage someone for 9 months and they under achieve you can fire them are you saying that a player on a 5 year contract can be fired for under performance?

How about a manager? Can he be sacked with no compensation for under performance against agreed targets?

Seriously that's rubbish. They are contractors to a plc,
Click to expand...

It's seems your fight is with the FA then.
The entire FA and it's 150 year history vs. Grendel
Maybe you ought to write to them, and tell them that their rules are wrong...or maybe give them a phone call
Also HMRC (with their IR35 directive) would disagree with you.
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #133
90% of me says this is true, we will be there for another season.

the remaining 10%, hopes that he's basically saying we are carrying as we are until we get the go ahead to go back soon.
 
L

lift tower

Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #134
I just don't believe the upkeep of the pitch wasn't included in the original rental deal. Not having it. Reckon its more posturing from your owners.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #135
Don't overcharge them for the seed they will withhold the rent should be at L1 prices with CL seed .....


lift tower said:
I just don't believe the upkeep of the pitch wasn't included in the original rental deal. Not having it. Reckon its more posturing from your owners.
Click to expand...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #136
Danceswithhorses said:
It's seems your fight is with the FA then.
The entire FA and it's 150 year history vs. Grendel
Maybe you ought to write to them, and tell them that their rules are wrong...or maybe give them a phone call
Also HMRC (with their IR35 directive) would disagree with you.
Click to expand...

No they are just contracted and I imagine the contractor is the football league which is why they attract NI and tax at source. If they were employed you could sack Adam Barton for example and owe him nothing. Sadly you sack him and you pay off his contract and he can get a job tomorrow in the same industry without returning the money to his prior employer. I've never seen any company that employs people on that basis.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #137
Grendel said:
No they are just contracted and I imagine the contractor is the football league which is why they attract NI and tax at source. If they were employed you could sack Adam Barton for example and owe him nothing. Sadly you sack him and you pay off his contract and he can get a job tomorrow in the same industry without returning the money to his prior employer. I've never seen any company that employs people on that basis.
Click to expand...

It's a weird one with Barton he clearly wasn't looking like a sticker at the start of last season ,why didn't they just bomb squad him with the rest ?

I wonder what the difference Is this season re;- him and Baker ?

If they want shot just do It ,yes It's going to cost a few bob but do It .

Makes me wonder If there are a few subtleties around this and the Fact we were In embargo last year and paying those five out didn't affect the player budget ,whereas possibly now paying out 2 would ?

so although it sounds like the Club are being softer In attitude In reality ,to the Players involved at least ,It's harsher ,maybe wishing they'd been binned last year.
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #138
Nick said:
Tell me more
Click to expand...

Pervert!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #139
Grendel said:
Grendel said:
No they are just contracted and I imagine the contractor is the football league which is why they attract NI and tax at source. If they were employed you could sack Adam Barton for example and owe him nothing. Sadly you sack him and you pay off his contract and he can get a job tomorrow in the same industry without returning the money to his prior employer. I've never seen any company that employs people on that basis.
Click to expand...

They employ people on temporary contracts where I work. They get just about all the same perks as us other than a pension. A fair few give up a permanent job to come as a temp in the hope that they can get a permanent job. It isn't very secure though. It is temporary.

If they work as a temp for over 50 weeks they get taken on full time. They can be taken on as long term sick cover. But it has been known to be finished after a few months of a six month contract as they are not needed for whatever reason. And they don't get compo if this happens. This is because they are not employed on a full time contract by our company. If they were compo would be payable to the end of their contract.
Click to expand...
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #140
The Gentleman said:
You mean like a deal to buy it? Surely if that was the case why have Sisu not made a single offer to buy it and followed it through?
Click to expand...

Possibly, however when you have previous Councillors stating things like "Hell will freeze over before Sisu own the Ricoh" and the other previous actions of idiocy you can see why it hasn't happened.

Sisu did make an offer we have been told however the sticking point was Matchday revenues, those on this forum that state they are irrelevant are mistaken I am afraid.
 
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