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Coventry City FC's Players are registered with Limited, not Holdings (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter FootyLawBlog
  • Start date Jun 28, 2013
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D

Ddccfc

Guest
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #36
RPHunt said:
Is this source the same "lawyer friend" that told you people could end up behind bars as a result of the judicial review? You keep some odd company.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I do.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #37
SkyBlueScottie said:
Its pretty clear to me that ACL tried to distress the football club by trying to put it into Admin, believing that the players came under the ltd Company.
Click to expand...

It is highly depressing that the fans have never asked questions of ACL, it is a shame upon the football club. The sooner we get rid of both ACL & SISU, the club will grow.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #38
Estimated wages said to be around £3m-£3.5m...Spread over 35 players makes £450k a LOT of players
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #39
Sick Boy said:
It is highly depressing that the fans have never asked questions of ACL, it is a shame upon the football club..
Click to expand...

It might be nice mightn't it. Doesn't in any way lessen the pressure on SISU to do so.

Could add a few more of the game players who really should be interrogated harder, too.
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #40
RoboCCFC90 said:
In fairness CJ you were supposed to have one question and you took up 15 mins of the forum..
Click to expand...

was he the guy at the start? went on for 15mins and then kept shouting out further questions throughout the forum even when he didnt have the mic?
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #41
Sick Boy said:
It is highly depressing that the fans have never asked questions of ACL, it is a shame upon the football club. The sooner we get rid of both ACL & SISU, the club will grow.
Click to expand...

Did you ask?
 

FootyLawBlog

New Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #42
Ddccfc said:
Surely you are better positioned to "damn" me by simply stepping forth from the murky camouflage of anonymity?

If you have no such connections, identifying yourself should not be a problem.

The scrutinisers should also be open to scrutiny.
Click to expand...


I'm more than happy to be open to scrutiny: but scrutiny of the words I post, which are supported by quoted evidence.

Scrutinise the words I use; if they're wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the evidence I use; if it is wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the interpretation I apply to the evidence, the law, the rules and regulations; if it is wrong challenge me.

That's what scrutiny is about: you don't need to know who I am to scrutinise the blog and the posts I make.

For what it's worth:

I have no connection with Sisu or any of its associated companies.
I have no connection with Paul Appleton or his company David Rubin & Partners
I have no connection with the administrations' solicitors Stephenson Harwood LLP
I have no connection with Coventry City Football Club (I'm not even a fan)
I have no connection with Arena Coventry Ltd, The Higgs Charity or Coventry City Council
I have no connection with any adviser (solicitor, insolvency professional or otherwise) of ACL, Higgs or CCC
I have no connection with any player, employee, contractor or other person associated with any of the parties
I have no connection with Brendan Guilfoyle* or any other insolvency professional
(*Mr Guilfoyle did leave a comment on my blog at the weekend, I emailed him and he emailed back. This doesn't not mean that I have "links" with him - a number of people have emailed me and commented on the blog. I do not consider that I have links with them either)

Ddccfc says I should be open to scrutiny - I've said above what the limits to that scrutiny should be (ie, the words I use, the evidence I quote and the interpretation I put on them). If that isn't sufficient, what level of scrutiny does Ddccfc feel is required? What would my identity add to the scrutiny that's required?

I haven't demanded Ddccdc's identity and I don't see what he should seek mine.

BUT: he has said that he has it "on good authority" that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle / ACL."

Everything I have said on my blog has been supported by sourced quotes and evidence
Now it is time for Ddccfc to support his claim: he should name his "authority" and explain what his claimed links are.
In fact, if he does have it on good authority that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle /ACL" he should already know who I am.

So, I say again: you have made an allegation. The person against whom you make the allegation (me) has completely and unequivocally, denied your allegation.

Please either withdraw your allegation or support it by explaining what your "good authority" is and explaining what the links are that you claim exist.
 
Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
K

kmj5000

Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #43
FootyLawBlog said:
I'm more than happy to be open to scrutiny: but scrutiny of the words I post, which are supported by quoted evidence.

Scrutinise the words I use; if they're wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the evidence I use; if it is wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the interpretation I apply to the evidence, the law, the rules and regulations; if it is wrong challenge me.

That's what scrutiny is about: you don't need to know who I am to scrutinise the blog and the posts I make.

For what it's worth:

I have no connection with Sisu or any of its associated companies.
I have no connection with Paul Appleton or his company David Rubin & Partners
I have no connection with the administrations' solicitors Stephenson Harwood LLP
I have no connection with Coventry City Football Club (I'm not even a fan)
I have no connection with Arena Coventry Ltd, The Higgs Charity or Coventry City Council
I have no connection with any adviser (solicitor, insolvency professional or otherwise) of ACL, Higgs or CCC
I have no connection with any player, employee, contractor or other person associated with any of the parties
I have no connection with Brendan Guilfoyle* or any other insolvency professional
(*Mr Guilfoyle did leave a comment on my blog at the weekend, I emailed him and he emailed back. This doesn't not mean that I have "links" with him - a number of people have emailed me and commented on the blog. I do not consider that I have links with them either)

Ddccfc says I should be open to scrutiny - I've said above what the limits to that scrutiny should be (ie, the words I use, the evidence I quote and the interpretation I put on them). If that isn't sufficient, what level of scrutiny does Ddccfc feel is required? What would my identity add to the scrutiny that's required?

I haven't demanded Ddccdc's identity and I don't see what he should seek mine.

BUT: he has said that he has it "on good authority" that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle / ACL."

Everything I have said on my blog has been supported by sourced quotes and evidence
Now it is time for Ddccfc to support his claim: he should name his "authority" and explain what his claimed links are.
In fact, if he does have it on good authority that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle /ACL" he should already know who I am.

So, I say again: you have made an allegation. The person against whom you make the allegation (me) has completely and unequivocally, denied your allegation.

Please either withdraw your allegation or support it by explaining what your "good authority" is and explaining what the links are that you claim exist.
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #44
FootyLawBlog said:
I'm more than happy to be open to scrutiny: but scrutiny of the words I post, which are supported by quoted evidence.

Scrutinise the words I use; if they're wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the evidence I use; if it is wrong, challenge me.
Scrutinise the interpretation I apply to the evidence, the law, the rules and regulations; if it is wrong challenge me.

That's what scrutiny is about: you don't need to know who I am to scrutinise the blog and the posts I make.

For what it's worth:

I have no connection with Sisu or any of its associated companies.
I have no connection with Paul Appleton or his company David Rubin & Partners
I have no connection with the administrations' solicitors Stephenson Harwood LLP
I have no connection with Coventry City Football Club (I'm not even a fan)
I have no connection with Arena Coventry Ltd, The Higgs Charity or Coventry City Council
I have no connection with any adviser (solicitor, insolvency professional or otherwise) of ACL, Higgs or CCC
I have no connection with any player, employee, contractor or other person associated with any of the parties
I have no connection with Brendan Guilfoyle* or any other insolvency professional
(*Mr Guilfoyle did leave a comment on my blog at the weekend, I emailed him and he emailed back. This doesn't not mean that I have "links" with him - a number of people have emailed me and commented on the blog. I do not consider that I have links with them either)

Ddccfc says I should be open to scrutiny - I've said above what the limits to that scrutiny should be (ie, the words I use, the evidence I quote and the interpretation I put on them). If that isn't sufficient, what level of scrutiny does Ddccfc feel is required? What would my identity add to the scrutiny that's required?

I haven't demanded Ddccdc's identity and I don't see what he should seek mine.

BUT: he has said that he has it "on good authority" that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle / ACL."

Everything I have said on my blog has been supported by sourced quotes and evidence
Now it is time for Ddccfc to support his claim: he should name his "authority" and explain what his claimed links are.
In fact, if he does have it on good authority that I have "links with Mr Guilfoyle /ACL" he should already know who I am.

So, I say again: you have made an allegation. The person against whom you make the allegation (me) has completely and unequivocally, denied your allegation.

Please either withdraw your allegation or support it by explaining what your "good authority" is and explaining what the links are that you claim exist.
Click to expand...

Over to you Ddccfc :thinking about::thinking about::thinking about:
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #45
Ddccfc said:
I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

Someone who claims to present an objective legal analysis of a subject loses all credibility if they are not willing to be open and honest themselves.

Bias and subjectivity are implied by the anonymity.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the internet.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #46
Nonleagueherewecome said:
Welcome to the internet.
Click to expand...

Especially the first sentence.
 
S

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #47
FootyLawBlog said:
I have no connection with Coventry City Football Club (I'm not even a fan)
Click to expand...

At least I have the poor excuse for wasting my time on a team I support and that gets me out of jail with Mrs Squirrel when I'm lost in paperwork for hours .
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #48
FootyLawBlog said:
I have no connection with Coventry City Football Club (I'm not even a fan).
Click to expand...

Question is: Who do you support?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #49
RoboCCFC90 said:
Question is: Who do you support?
Click to expand...

Do Tell FLB. you will be no less in our esteem.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #50
wingy said:
Do Tell FLB. you will be no less in our esteem.
Click to expand...

Unless it's the claret and blue scum..
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #51
SkyBlueScottie said:
Its pretty clear to me that ACL tried to distress the football club by trying to put it into Admin, believing that the players came under the ltd Company.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it the other way round, with the Council having to bale ACL out with a preferential loan.? Are SISU now pursuing the legality of the loan in the court?
SISU's only interest in this is to distress ACL surely now their original plan has failed.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #52
DDccfc.....You've read what FootyLawBlog has had to say.....Your turn now!
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #53
Originally Posted by SkyBlueScottie

Its pretty clear to me that ACL tried to distress the football club by trying to put it into Admin, believing that the players came under the ltd Company.




2 points here. You are owed £1.3m what would you do?....This was done to prevent SISU putting CCFC into liquidation.
There is significant evidence that there are "Player Contracts in CCFCltd":blue:
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #54
Sky Blue Kid said:
2 points here. You are owed £1.3m what would you do?....This was done to prevent SISU putting CCFC into liquidation.
There is significant evidence that there are "Player Contracts in CCFCltd":blue:
Click to expand...

1 point here - ACL are owed £650k ... not £1.3m
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #55
BEFORE ACL pushed for admin they were owed £1.3m NOT £650k.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #56
Sky Blue Kid said:
BEFORE ACL pushed for admin they were owed £1.3m NOT £650k.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting sisu paid them £650k before we went into admin?

No sir - they were owed £650K. Never £1.3m.
Read the administrators report where he lists liabillities.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #57
Godiva said:
Are you suggesting sisu paid them £650k before we went into admin?

No sir - they were owed £650K. Never £1.3m.
Read the administrators report where he lists liabillities.
Click to expand...

That would be because ACL used the escrow to take out £500k's rent as security. The club is (was?) legally obliged to also keep this full, especially since they weren't the ones who put the money there in the first place.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #58
Is that so? I've read that SISU are owed £70m+....is that also right?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #59
Sky Blue Kid said:
Is that so? I've read that SISU are owed £70m+....is that also right?
Click to expand...

Until the accounts for Sky Blue Sports and Leisure are published it's difficult to say. I don't know what the future is for that company if Otium also intend to buy Holdings...
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #60
Still kissing sisu's arse godiva? Dear oh dear.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #61
valiant15 said:
Still kissing sisu's arse godiva? Dear oh dear.
Click to expand...

That line about 'we have paid £800k rent this year' from Fisher was one of his juiciest lies to date. He must think we're all stupid.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #62
valiant15 said:
Still kissing sisu's arse godiva? Dear oh dear.
Click to expand...

So pointing out that ACL are not owed £1.3m and quote the administrators report as evidence is considered 'kissing sisu's arse'?

Dear oh dear!
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #63
valiant15 said:
Still kissing sisu's arse godiva? Dear oh dear.
Click to expand...

He's made no value judgement about it, just pointed out what the administrator said was owed.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #64
Godiva said:
So pointing out that ACL are not owed £1.3m and quote the administrators report as evidence is considered 'kissing sisu's arse'?

Dear oh dear!
Click to expand...

They aren't owed all of that sum but the club still has/d an obligation to pay it.
 
S

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #65
Sky Blue Kid said:
Is that so? I've read that SISU are owed £70m+....is that also right?
Click to expand...

Nope. SISU were owed £29 million if you look at Sky Blue Sports & Leisure Ltd accounts to May 2011 (the last set available) - the ultimate owners of CCFC and CCFC Holdings Ltd. They publish consolidated accounts (for the group as a whole).

When SISU took over, they wrote off £34 million, followed by another £6 million a couple of years later. Money owed to Robinson & McGinity, who will never be paid back.
They didn't write it off in CCFC Ltd or Holdings - only in SBSL Ltd.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #66
@BSB...
One thing I'd like to know is...How can Otium buy the "Ltd" when they.....a) Haven't got two pennies to scratch their arse with, and ,have only £1k showing in the business?...... and b) If point "A" is true, can't ACL take SISU to court for the exact same thing that SISU has?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #67
Brighton Sky Blue said:
That line about 'we have paid £800k rent this year' from Fisher was one of his juiciest lies to date. He must think we're all stupid.
Click to expand...

Yes - that was way over the line. Pure stupidity.
He could just have told it as it was - ACL have taken £500k from the escrow and the club have paid £300k towards matchday costs.
 
S

Skybluesquirrel

New Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #68
Sky Blue Kid said:
@BSB...
One thing I'd like to know is...How can Otium buy the "Ltd" when they.....a) Haven't got two pennies to scratch their arse with, and ,have only £1k showing in the business?...... and b) If point "A" is true, can't ACL take SISU to court for the exact same thing that SISU has?
Click to expand...

They loan the money from SISU in the Cayman Islands to pay back, er SISU in the Cayman Islands.
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #69
Deleted member 5849 said:
He's made no value judgement about it, just pointed out what the administrator said was owed.
Click to expand...
Come off it, he always sticks up for them,i just cant fathom out why.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 28, 2013
  • #70
Sky Blue Kid said:
@BSB...
One thing I'd like to know is...How can Otium buy the "Ltd" when they.....a) Haven't got two pennies to scratch their arse with, and ,have only £1k showing in the business?...... and b) If point "A" is true, can't ACL take SISU to court for the exact same thing that SISU has?
Click to expand...

I don't know the precise workings of the deal however I imagine that rather than pay anything for Ltd they have offered the ability to write off Ltd's debt. Squirrel's analysis of SBS+L's accounts is bang on however these accounts are now based on information from 2 years ago. There is no way of knowing what the current score is however it is those accounts which tell us exactly how much SISU have put in to the business.
 
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