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Coventry City fans to discuss possibility of supporter-led takeover (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter skybluebeduff
  • Start date Jan 11, 2017
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Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #491
Sky Blue Kid said:
You were ripped a new arse by 3-4 on the CT forum, and all you could say was "We have a expert on our website" Yet wouldn't take in what some were telling you. Someone even said take off your blinkers or words to that effect. I'm not having a meltdown much to your annoyance, and actually shown you and all other posters what "Our Expert" has already spoken about. Grenduffy went off on a tangent asking something, so I reciprocated to him, doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why. You only need to read back a few pages to understand... Wait a minute, you don't do reading back do you!
Click to expand...

You mean the bit where I was referring to what OSB was pointing out in the accounts which differed to what they were guessing? Do you mean the bit where I was referring to OSB saying something like NOPM wouldn't help? Feel free to go through the threads I referred to. "ripped a new arse" ha. I'd suggest that might be the place for you, just make shit up and it's ripping somebody a new arse.

That was about SISU's accounts, not CCFC.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #492
Monkeyface said:
And that is exactly what I've been saying to Nick... he has a responcibilty to ensure the fans get the true picture. I haven't heard the Free radio thing, but if that's true they're misleading those that couldn't make the meeting.
Click to expand...

People aren't interested in a true picture are they?

I don't really have any responsibility, if people are actually interested there are threads full of facts on here.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #493
Sky Blue Kid said:
Any other notable figures?
A large amount of money has been paid into an employee benefit trust by Sisu.

Trusts like this allow employers to deposit money into the trust, which is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of tax-free loans which are not always repaid.

Employee benefit trust payments should not be made on a contractual basis - as that would essentially mean they are salary and subject to tax and national insurance.

Mr Carvell said: “There has been a £614,000 increase in investments.

“The investment, in a nutshell, is what’s called an employee benefit trust. It’s a trust set up for the benefit of employees.

“They are spending a lot of money for their employees.

“They’ve had a really good year but, because of the employee benefit trust, they’ve really done no better than the year before.

“The number of debtors has gone down, but the cash has gone up. It’s more cash rich at the end of the year.”


If Fisher says we've made £1m profit.... Where is it??? not gone back into CCFC. Yet suddenly SISU have made a big profit, and extremely generously have paid into a "Employee Benefit Scheme" which as you can see in the highlighted part of the post .... which is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of tax-free loans which are not always repaid.

I wonder who that could be???
Click to expand...


Got be honest I don't think there has been £600k paid out from profits at all SBK. If you add the information up on the other costs contained in the notes then you haven't got enough left to pay it out.

operating costs (note 2) in total 135326
Staff costs (note 3) 455171
directors emoluments (note 4) 431505
unexplained 70906 (will cover rates, insurance, computer maint. etc )

Total 1092908

Total costs on P&L acc 1092908

I think what has been done is so that the value of the employee benefit trust is shown in the accounts at its value ...... there is an entry as an asset and an equal entry as a liability. ie one contras the other. Certainly contributions will have been made over the years but I can not see how £600k was paid out of SISU Capital Group in these accounts

That's not to say the directors do not receive a decent wedge
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #494
Sky Blue Kid said:
Hold on a second CD. You're "Poo Pooing" the idea set by Portsmouth. Make your mind up mate!
Click to expand...
Portsmouth's situation is nothing like ours. They purchased a L1 club out of administration with a loan from their council to purchase the ground. They had parachute payments still coming in to cover CVA and football debts.

Fan ownership as a concept is a great idea but how could it work for us in the unique situation we are in. The question was asked last night if SD had ever assisted anyone in a similar positon to ours and the answer was no.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #495
Nick said:
You mean the bit where I was referring to what OSB was pointing out in the accounts which differed to what they were guessing? Do you mean the bit where I was referring to OSB saying something like NOPM wouldn't help? Feel free to go through the threads I referred to. "ripped a new arse" ha. I'd suggest that might be the place for you, just make shit up and it's ripping somebody a new arse.

That was about SISU's accounts, not CCFC.
Click to expand...


Try the bit where posters were talking about "Directors getting massive payouts" and pointing out exactly what I've said when "Our Expert" (You outed him not me) said nothing can be proven but he can see where things could possibly have gone.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #496
Sky Blue Kid said:
Try the bit where posters were talking about "Directors getting massive payouts" and pointing out exactly what I've said when "Our Expert" (You outed him not me) said nothing can be proven but he can see where things could possibly have gone.
Click to expand...

You are confusing things again.

I said OSB couldn't prove money from CCFC, I didn't say they weren't getting payouts from SISU as they quite clearly did.

Nobody has denied that SISU directors got a wad of money from SISU have they?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #497
oldskyblue58 said:
Got be honest I don't think there has been £600k paid out from profits at all SBK. If you add the information up on the other costs contained in the notes then you haven't got enough left to pay it out.

operating costs (note 2) in total 135326
Staff costs (note 3) 455171
directors emoluments (note 4) 431505
unexplained 70906 (will cover rates, insurance, computer maint. etc )

Total 1092908

Total costs on P&L acc 1092908

I think what has been done is so that the value of the employee benefit trust is shown in the accounts at its value ...... there is an entry as an asset and an equal entry as a liability. ie one contras the other. Certainly contributions will have been made over the years but I can not see how £600k was paid out of SISU Capital Group in these accounts

That's not to say the directors do not receive a decent wedge
Click to expand...


Thanks OSB that's what I've said isn't it? by way of "Employees Benefit Fund" where "Loans" are made that are not always paid back.
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #498
Sky Blue Kid said:

Thanks OSB that's what I've said isn't it? by way of "Employees Benefit Fund" where "Loans" are made that are not always paid back.
Click to expand...
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #499
chiefdave said:
Portsmouth's situation is nothing like ours. They purchased a L1 club out of administration with a loan from their council to purchase the ground. They had parachute payments still coming in to cover CVA and football debts.

Fan ownership as a concept is a great idea but how could it work for us in the unique situation we are in. The question was asked last night if SD had ever assisted anyone in a similar positon to ours and the answer was no.
Click to expand...
You cannot be certain it wouldn't work. It's your opinion and that's fine by me, just don't dismiss it till it's proven that it wouldn't work.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #500
Nick said:
David Johnson is now making statements for the sky blue trust? I guess the whole seperation thing wasn't taken on board?

That's why confusion happens and why it makes it easier for SISU to discredit and ignore things.
Click to expand...
And talking about a fan takeover leading to a return to the PL!
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #501
Sky Blue Kid said:

Thanks OSB that's what I've said isn't it? by way of "Employees Benefit Fund" where "Loans" are made that are not always paid back.
Click to expand...

No, you have said SISU are pocketing money from the football club and are using the SISU accounts and the SISU benefit fund as your reason.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #502
Grendel said:
Can you post a link on how it ended?
Click to expand...

Again I really don't get your point. It certainly won't make you more credible than Italia. Only you can do that by substantiating your claim. You seem very reluctant to prove that you're more credible than Italia and it's not like I haven't given you the opportunity. My offer of apologising when you substantiated your claim stands.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #503
Esoterica said:
Click to expand...

What's up? looking a bit constipated there mate!
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #504
chiefdave said:
And talking about a fan takeover leading to a return to the PL!
Click to expand...

Exactly.

It goes against what the expert on the stage was saying about struggling for the championship.

Why have experts to just ignore them and carry on as it was?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #505
Sky Blue Kid said:
You cannot be certain it wouldn't work.
Click to expand...
Which is why I would like someone from the Trust or elsewhere to explain how it would work for us. That hasn't been forthcoming.
 
Reactions: Nick and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #506
wince said:
Attendances are not going to go up (semi final aside ) and there is no short term success at the bottom of division 3 , people are leaving and they are not coming back
Click to expand...

If being the word. There is also no fan takeover happening today. I was referring to a possibility occurring before the fan ownership being completed. No-one knows, but a bit of success would lessen the incentive.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #507
Nick said:
No, you have said SISU are pocketing money from the football club and are using the SISU accounts and the SISU benefit fund as your reason.
Click to expand...
Think you need to clarify that with OSB 58.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #508
Sky Blue Kid said:
Think you need to clarify that with OSB 58.
Click to expand...

Clarify about what?

Is there proof now that they are taking hundreds of thousands out of the football club?

You were going on about Grendel's estimated facts, I asked you about SISU pocketing the money from CCFC as that is also a very estimated fact from you isn't it?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #509
skybluetony176 said:
Again I really don't get your point. It certainly won't make you more credible than Italia. Only you can do that by substantiating your claim. You seem very reluctant to prove that you're more credible than Italia and it's not like I haven't given you the opportunity. My offer of apologising when you substantiated your claim stands.
Click to expand...
What do you want to apolgise to him for? he wouldn't do the same for you mate... I'm still waiting for replies to 3 question he promised to answer, but, in true Grenduffy style hasn't answered one of them
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #510
Nick said:
Clarify about what?

Is there proof now that they are taking hundreds of thousands out of the football club?

You were going on about Grendel's estimated facts, I asked you about SISU pocketing the money from CCFC as that is also a very estimated fact from you isn't it?
Click to expand...

Why bother?
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #511
Sky Blue Kid said:
What's up? looking a bit constipated there mate!
Click to expand...
Someone needs to be to balance out all the shit you're coming out with.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #512
Nick said:
Clarify about what?

Is there proof now that they are taking hundreds of thousands out of the football club?

You were going on about Grendel's estimated facts, I asked you about SISU pocketing the money from CCFC as that is also a very estimated fact from you isn't it?
Click to expand...

Maddison money has never been put back into CCFC. Where did it go. The only thing SISU have put back into the Club is less budget for players every year. Fisher has said the "Football Club" has made a profit of £1m.... Where the fuck is it? Don't come out with "It's gone to paying players and running the Club" shit.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #513
Sky Blue Kid said:
Maddison money has never been put back into CCFC. Where did it go. The only thing SISU have put back into the Club is less budget for players every year. Fisher has said the "Football Club" has made a profit of £1m.... Where the fuck is it? Don't come out with "It's gone to paying players and running the Club" shit.
Click to expand...

All you keep doing is going with your estimated facts you hate so much.

Can you really not see the irony? Honestly?

You then just move goal posts to another rant.
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #514
Esoterica said:
Someone needs to be to balance out all the shit you're coming out with.
Click to expand...


And that someone is you is it?
 
Last edited: Jan 24, 2017

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #515
Nick said:
All you keep doing is going with your estimated facts you hate so much.

Can you really not see the irony? Honestly?

You then just move goal posts to another rant.
Click to expand...
I'm not estimating anything! I pointed out what our Expert has already said "Could happen" but could not be proven.
And nobody moves goalposts more than you.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #516
Sky Blue Kid said:
Maddison money has never been put back into CCFC. Where did it go. The only thing SISU have put back into the Club is less budget for players every year. Fisher has said the "Football Club" has made a profit of £1m.... Where the fuck is it? Don't come out with "It's gone to paying players and running the Club" shit.
Click to expand...

Players are contracted by the club - not by SISU. Third party ownership is illegal.
So the CLUB sold Maddison and the CLUB receive the payment.
Sisu are not putting anything back because they haven't received or taken anything.
 
Reactions: martcov

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #517
Sky Blue Kid said:
I'm not estimating anything! I pointed out what our Expert has already said "Could happen" but could not be proven.
And nobody moves goalposts more than you.
Click to expand...
And I'm pointing out where you saying about them lining their pockets from ccfc.

Where's the proof to get to that estimated fact?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #518
Godiva said:
Players are contracted by the club - not by SISU. Third party ownership is illegal.
So the CLUB sold Maddison and the CLUB receive the payment.
Sisu are not putting anything back because they haven't received or taken anything.
Click to expand...
And this is a massive issue within our fan base. Just the randomly made up shit that spreads.

I'm not saying I'm always correct as I'm not, but I'm more than happy to be corrected about things and learn.
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #519
I thought last night was about potential options for the Club as and when Sisu decide to sell. Not focusing on fan ownership as THE option but with guest speakers sharing experiences. Are the Trust going to post up minutes?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #520
Nick said:
And I'm pointing out where you saying about them lining their pockets from ccfc.

Where's the proof to get to that estimated fact?
Click to expand...

SISU have control over CCFC. They do not run the Club for nothing. No business runs a Club at a loss for 9+ years unless there is an ulterior motive for doing so.If SISU(As you say) is not connected with CCFC why do they pull "The purse strings"
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #521
Sky Blue Kid said:
SISU have control over CCFC. They do not run the Club for nothing. No business runs a Club at a loss for 9+ years unless there is an ulterior motive for doing so.If SISU(As you say) is not connected with CCFC why do they pull "The purse strings"
Click to expand...

You are still estimating your facts aren't you?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #522
Monners said:
I thought last night was about potential options for the Club as and when Sisu decide to sell. Not focusing on fan ownership as THE option but with guest speakers sharing experiences. Are the Trust going to post up minutes?
Click to expand...
You can watch the whole thing again
 
Reactions: Monners

NortonSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #523
Sky Blue Kid said:
Maddison money has never been put back into CCFC. Where did it go. The only thing SISU have put back into the Club is less budget for players every year. Fisher has said the "Football Club" has made a profit of £1m.... Where the fuck is it? Don't come out with "It's gone to paying players and running the Club" shit.
Click to expand...
As you haven't seen the 2016 accounts all you are spouting is your opinion and that's it. I have no idea where the Maddison money has gone but if it is payment spread over 3 years or is a flat fee with increments for meeting targets then it's something else. Why not wait until the accounts are published?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #524
Godiva said:
Players are contracted by the club - not by SISU. Third party ownership is illegal.
So the CLUB sold Maddison and the CLUB receive the payment.
Sisu are not putting anything back because they haven't received or taken anything.
Click to expand...

Is that why on Administration SISU were the "Prefered Bidder" as opposed to Haskell IV in the attempt to cover up a fucking "Massive can of worms"?
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2017
  • #525
riyadhskyblue said:
As you haven't seen the 2016 accounts all you are spouting is your opinion and that's it. I have no idea where the Maddison money has gone but if it is payment spread over 3 years or is a flat fee with increments for meeting targets then it's something else. Why not wait until the accounts are published?
Click to expand...
Ahhh, but it seems others opinions are more valid than mine
 
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