Council Owe The Club Money? (1 Viewer)

Nick

Administrator
Can anybody in the know expand on this?



We paid £850k of rent last season. Shortfall on the annualised rent was £636k. The council withheld a rate rebate of £399k and had been overcharging rates since day one of the Ricoh Arena occupancy but we can only currently claim for the last three years. The Valuation Office (Central Govt) has told Coventry City Council to pay back £399k to club. That hasn’t happened yet so we are issuing legal proceedings against the council to recover the monies owed.

Why were the council ordered to give CCFC money back?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Can anybody in the know expand on this?



Why were the council ordered to give CCFC money back?

It looks as if the club appealed against the RV for the Ricoh in the Non domestic rating list.

I've checked the VO's website and it appears there is an appeal outstanding but not sure if it's been settled.

http://www.2010.voa.gov.uk/rli/en/basic/appeal/details/2010/14519575000

The club appealed against the 2005 list in 2011 but the appeal was withdrawn:

http://www.2010.voa.gov.uk/rli/en/basic/appeal/details/2005/11463014000
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Got to be clear who is due the rate refund is it CCFC or CCFC Ltd ? I would have thought that CCFC Ltd as owner of the lease & Licence at the Ricoh

Can the rights to a rate refund be bought and claimed by a third party? - I thought it was a tax and tax can only be paid to the taxpayer but I dont know a lot about the legal side of such things so anyone able to say?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Got to be clear who is due the rate refund is it CCFC or CCFC Ltd ? I would have thought that CCFC Ltd as owner of the lease & Licence at the Ricoh

Can the rights to a rate refund be bought and claimed by a third party? - I thought it was a tax and tax can only be paid to the taxpayer but I dont know a lot about the legal side of such things so anyone able to say?


There is no evidence that a rebate is due osb. I am not sure about the legalities of repaying money to a dissolved company, is it not considered an asset or liabilty to transfer?
 

RPHunt

New Member
Wasn't there a rate refund shown in the assets of CCFC Ltd when Appleton produced his report? If so, it is probably now in his back pocket.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Got to be clear who is due the rate refund is it CCFC or CCFC Ltd ? I would have thought that CCFC Ltd as owner of the lease & Licence at the Ricoh

Can the rights to a rate refund be bought and claimed by a third party? - I thought it was a tax and tax can only be paid to the taxpayer but I dont know a lot about the legal side of such things so anyone able to say?

Was wondering If matters such as this and Transfer monies were the reason behind the delay in the Liquidations?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
at present CCFC Ltd is not dissolved it is in the process of liquidation. Part of that process is to gather in the assets or debts the company is owed. I would agree if the company is struck off then the money couldnt be repaid and the claim would be lost. Is that why it takes so long to strike off a shell company that has we are told no assets only liabilities? Am assuming the rates claim has been made ...... but not on the basis of valuation, but of allocation. It might not show at the valuation office if it is how the site rates are split and billed by ccc
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
I thought CCFC owed ACL £1.4m in unpaid rent? it this still owed, talk about complex eh.

I thought it was £500k, and it was only owed because the FL insisted on it?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
I thought CCFC owed ACL £1.4m in unpaid rent? it this still owed, talk about complex eh.

I would have thought ACL paid the rates and CCFC paid a % contribution.
Perhaps they are saying they don't need to pay rates because they were not paying rent for a year.
Anything could have happened.
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
This thread shows just how much is misunderstood. The fan divide will take such a long time to recover when people are angry about so many twisted truths
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Included in the final administrators report 27/09/13 there was the following detail as part of what Otium bought from CCFC Ltd

"The debts and benefits of all guarantees, indemnities and security rights in respect of them, including any rates rebate £1,000,000"

So looks like the administrator was expecting a rates refund. How he could create a charge over assets in the company in administration I am not sure because at first sight that appears to prejudice the other creditors perhaps there is a way. I dont know. Certainly TF believes there is a £399k refund due to someone

If the rates refund is £399k and Otium benefit from it then the cash cost of acquiring CCFC Ltd assets nets down to £1.1m it would seem. Equally if that is the case then ACL do not benefit from the £400k set off against their claim it seems to me but perhaps it can be explained differently?
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Do SISU owe the fans? What is the value of that rebate over the last six years?
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
Neither side have paid their dues, neither side is worse than the other in this matter.
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
Included in the final administrators report 27/09/13 there was the following detail as part of what Otium bought from CCFC Ltd

"The debts and benefits of all guarantees, indemnities and security rights in respect of them, including any rates rebate £1,000,000"

So looks like the administrator was expecting a rates refund. How he could create a charge over assets in the company in administration I am not sure because at first sight that appears to prejudice the other creditors perhaps there is a way. I dont know. Certainly TF believes there is a £399k refund due to someone

If the rates refund is £399k and Otium benefit from it then the cash cost of acquiring CCFC Ltd assets nets down to £1.1m it would seem. Equally if that is the case then ACL do not benefit from the £400k set off against their claim it seems to me but perhaps it can be explained differently?

Just goes to show how unclear this whole arrangement was and reinforce how much simpler the life of a CCFC fan would be if the club owned it's own stadium
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
I get the last couple of seasons, but What are they apologising for the first 3 1/2 years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)

They are in charge- they have overseen: £60M worth of debt +/-, a relegation, administration, and now we are homeless-not a lot to boast about for 6 years of "management"; bucks stops with them.. yeah yeah yeah I know the council have some responsibility and I agree.
You probably heard Mr L tonight on CWR.... enough said.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Just goes to show how unclear this whole arrangement was and reinforce how much simpler the life of a CCFC fan would be if the club owned it's own stadium

I think I'm with you here ,obviously the Previous Incumbents Owned HR ,and look what happened .Under the Current Aims of the owners the Club Still would'nt own it.

If It Is to be Given Over ,then give It to the Club ................That Is "The Fans".
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
They are in charge- they have overseen: £60M worth of debt +/-, a relegation, administration, and now we are homeless-not a lot to boast about for 6 years of "management"; bucks stops with them.. yeah yeah yeah I know the council have some responsibility and I agree.
You probably heard Mr L tonight on CWR.... enough said.

No didn't listen to it.

The 2 things I blame them for is:

1) not buying 50-100% of ACL at the start in ores to access revenue
2) not slashing and restructuring the wage right at the start.

Relegation was almost inevitable, we'd been struggle in the championship for years, with an average squad we couldn't afford and no access to revenue and high rent. Should have took the hit in the first season, got relegated and rebuilt like they're doing (in a squad sense) now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
No didn't listen to it.

The 2 things I blame them for is:

1) not buying 50-100% of ACL at the start in ores to access revenue
2) not slashing and restructuring the wage right at the start.

Relegation was almost inevitable, we'd been struggle in the championship for years, with an average squad we couldn't afford and no access to revenue and high rent. Should have took the hit in the first season, got relegated and rebuilt like they're doing (in a squad sense) now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)

I agree with that. I can't understand why they didn't, they had the cash & if they had done so now they would have an asset worth a lot more that the £6.5M they keep banging on about.
 

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