Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics)

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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It’s the very definition of false equivalence. It’s like comparing a paper cut to limb amputation.
Flu in the UK kills more a year than covid has in many countries .. the reason our covid deaths are so ridiculously high is mostly to do with government mismanagement of the whole pandemic

What I'm getting at its not really a papercut in most countries .

Germany for example can see upto 30,000 deaths a year with flu and that's with years of vaccines .

Covid has killed 95 ,000 or so in 18 months and over half that time no vaccine .

Yes covid is worse , but let's not try and make flu out to be nothing 😅

Flu can kill upto 500,000 a year worldwide (with vaccines ) and make 3-5 million severely ill
 
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Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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How often does the flu bring the NHS to its knees?
Not in our lifetime , it has been devastating to the globe in the past .

We have vaccines now for flu , every year , like these planned covid boosters for the over 50s or vulnerable

Like flu we will get ontop of this virus eventually and it won't bring the NHS to its knees will it
 

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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Genuinely can’t believe people are still talking about the fucking flu 18 months into this 🤦‍♂️
Why ? He said flu was like a papercut in comparison , but 1 flu virus killed 25-50 million people ... flu isn't just a papercut was the point .. it's a virus that kills hundreds of thousands every year ... was all

Flu still does this despite years of scientific work and vaccines
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Flu in the UK kills more a year than covid has in many countries .. the reason our covid deaths are so ridiculously high is mostly to do with government mismanagement of the whole pandemic

What I'm getting at its not really a papercut in most countries .

Germany for example can see upto 30,000 deaths a year with flu and that's with years of vaccines .

Covid has killed 95 ,000 or so in 18 months and over half that time no vaccine .

Yes covid is worse , but let's not try and make flu out to be nothing 😅

Flu can kill upto 500,000 a year worldwide (with vaccines ) and make 3-5 million severely ill
That’s just a measure of the government’s failure. If you want to compare one death rate to another you can only compare them in the same country. It’s irrelevant to compare flu deaths in the UK to Covid deaths in New Zealand. When you’re talking about influenza deaths worldwide you’re also talking about all current worldwide influenza strains not just seasonal flu that traditional is the biggest issue in the UK. It’s false equivalence again.
 

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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That’s just a measure of the government’s failure. If you want to compare one death rate to another you can only compare them in the same country. It’s irrelevant to compare flu deaths in the UK to Covid deaths in New Zealand. When you’re talking about influenza deaths worldwide you’re also talking about all current worldwide influenza strains not just seasonal flu that traditional is the biggest issue in the UK. It’s false equivalence again.
Bottom line is , flu kills hundreds of thousands every year , with vaccines .

Covid is still new , still being studied and eventually we will be at a point where much like flu , it isn't killing millions every year .. true ?

Covid will eventually be a papercut too
 

Hertsccfc

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Apr 29, 2018
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Flu in the UK kills more a year than covid has in many countries .. the reason our covid deaths are so ridiculously high is mostly to do with government mismanagement of the whole pandemic

What I'm getting at its not really a papercut in most countries .

Germany for example can see upto 30,000 deaths a year with flu and that's with years of vaccines .

Covid has killed 95 ,000 or so in 18 months and over half that time no vaccine .

Yes covid is worse , but let's not try and make flu out to be nothing 😅

Flu can kill upto 500,000 a year worldwide (with vaccines ) and make 3-5 million severely ill
Covid has killed 134,000 in the UK in 18 months.

Yes flu can be fatal but the transmission rate and death rate is substantial lower than covid.

Of course flu kills more people here than Covid in some countries, but that proves nothing. Countries have different populations.

Trump started this nonsense, but covid is not flu.
 

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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Covid has killed 134,000 in the UK in 18 months.

Yes flu can be fatal but the transmission rate and death rate is substantial lower than covid.

Of course flu kills more people here than Covid in some countries, but that proves nothing. Countries have different populations.

Trump started this nonsense, but covid is not flu.
I wasn't arguing that covid was flu though
 
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fernandopartridge

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Dec 9, 2011
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How often does the flu bring the NHS to its knees?
Tbf the NHS is in crisis for a quarter of the year. No just flu but all seasonal respiratory illness and other illness and injury associated with the cold weather.
The answer is spending significantly more money on the NHS, adult social care and otherwise on improving the standard of living for many, including pensioners who then might be in better general health.
 

Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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How many times do we have to say Covid is not flu for people to get it?
It’s a respiratory condition that can kill 30,000 a year and a vaccine is available so same principle applies
 

Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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Covid has killed 134,000 in the UK in 18 months.

Yes flu can be fatal but the transmission rate and death rate is substantial lower than covid.

Of course flu kills more people here than Covid in some countries, but that proves nothing. Countries have different populations.

Trump started this nonsense, but covid is not flu.
you’ve totally missed the point
 

hill83

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Sep 15, 2008
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Isn’t the flu loads of different viruses under one umbrella name where as Covid is Covid. Albeit we are obviously seeing variants.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

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May 31, 2012
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Isn’t the flu loads of different viruses under one umbrella name where as Covid is Covid. Albeit we are obviously seeing variants.
True....but being a pedant, we are also exposed to & live with several other coronaviruses......we've just got a particularlly nasty one circulating at present...its only killing so many as its novel......
 

hill83

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Sep 15, 2008
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True....but being a pedant, we are also exposed to & live with several other coronaviruses......we've just got a particularlly nasty one circulating at present...its only killing so many as its novel......
That was my point really. To compare deaths from the flu with Covid doesn’t really work. As Covid is one terrible thing.

I understand that’s not what everyone was doing. Just sick of hearing about the flu. It’s similar but almost irrelevant.
 

Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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That was my point really. To compare deaths from the flu with Covid doesn’t really work. As Covid is one terrible thing.

I understand that’s not what everyone was doing. Just sick of hearing about the flu. It’s similar but almost irrelevant.
Its not as the argument to vaccinate people is to stop health service being overwhelmed - but they often have been. Flu vaccines vary with effectiveness but having it will give less chance of occupation of a hospital bed
 

SBAndy

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Mar 20, 2011
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Its not as the argument to vaccinate people is to stop health service being overwhelmed - but they often have been. Flu vaccines vary with effectiveness but having it will give less chance of occupation of a hospital bed
When was the last time we had to lock everyone in their homes because of flu?
 

chiefdave

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Sep 27, 2008
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When was the last time we had to lock everyone in their homes because of flu?
When flu numbers shot up one year due to H1N1 (2009?) didn't we do exactly that? Not the same as lockdown now as it wasn't the same number of people but I remember getting something (certain it wasn't flu) around that time and you weren't even allowed to go to the doctors, they literally delivered medication and left it outside your door with instructions to stay inside for 2 weeks.
 

Skybluefaz

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Aug 1, 2011
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When flu numbers shot up one year due to H1N1 (2009?) didn't we do exactly that? Not the same as lockdown now as it wasn't the same number of people but I remember getting something (certain it wasn't flu) around that time and you weren't even allowed to go to the doctors, they literally delivered medication and left it outside your door with instructions to stay inside for 2 weeks.
No. We've never had a similar response as a wider public.
 

chiefdave

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Sep 27, 2008
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Had a visit to the hospital yesterday to see a senior respiratory consultant after over 2 years of waiting. Asked about covid and if particular if I was wrong to be feeling anixious when everyone else seems to be acting like nothing ever happened. To be honest I was hoping for a 'if you're double jabbed there's little to worry about' type answer for re-assurance but I got nothing like that. Wasn't sure if I should post what she said but figured I might as well in case anyone is interested in an experts opinion.

Basically she said this is a long way from being over and people are too comfortable & complacent. Said it was best to look at hospitalisations & deaths rather than cases and both those figures are significantly higher than they were heading into last winter and rising.

Said the 'in the wild' data indicates that vaccination does lower the chance of getting covid and the risk of passing it on if you do have it but people have focused on a single study which shows that in lab conditions, where nose swabs were taken, there could be the same viral load in the vaccinated and unvaccinated but even that showed that in the vaccinated the viral load dropped far quicker than in the unvaccinated.

Also said she hoped that vaccine passports and masks would be introduced, this was before the government announced the winter plan, to minimise hospitalisations without the need for another lockdown.

Finally said people are using terms like 'overwhelm the NHS' without understanding what they are talking about as they say levels aren't as high as last year and therefore the NHS can cope but that required shutting down everything that wasn't critical care to concentrate on covid. The levels of covid hospitalisations the NHS can cope with before other services are impacted is far lower and they're already, at least locally, very close to that level.

As I was leaving I asked specifically about attending matches. She said personally she wouldn't even consider going to an event with a large crowd of unmasked, and potentially unvaccinated, people.

Not exactly the reassurance I was looking for. On the bright side no cancer, no additional respiratory issues on top of what I already knew about, no issues with immune system, so onto another waiting list (12 months or longer thanks to the backlog) for another department and more tests.
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2008
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Had a visit to the hospital yesterday to see a senior respiratory consultant after over 2 years of waiting. Asked about covid and if particular if I was wrong to be feeling anixious when everyone else seems to be acting like nothing ever happened. To be honest I was hoping for a 'if you're double jabbed there's little to worry about' type answer for re-assurance but I got nothing like that. Wasn't sure if I should post what she said but figured I might as well in case anyone is interested in an experts opinion.

Basically she said this is a long way from being over and people are too comfortable & complacent. Said it was best to look at hospitalisations & deaths rather than cases and both those figures are significantly higher than they were heading into last winter and rising.

Said the 'in the wild' data indicates that vaccination does lower the chance of getting covid and the risk of passing it on if you do have it but people have focused on a single study which shows that in lab conditions, where nose swabs were taken, there could be the same viral load in the vaccinated and unvaccinated but even that showed that in the vaccinated the viral load dropped far quicker than in the unvaccinated.

Also said she hoped that vaccine passports and masks would be introduced, this was before the government announced the winter plan, to minimise hospitalisations without the need for another lockdown.

Finally said people are using terms like 'overwhelm the NHS' without understanding what they are talking about as they say levels aren't as high as last year and therefore the NHS can cope but that required shutting down everything that wasn't critical care to concentrate on covid. The levels of covid hospitalisations the NHS can cope with before other services are impacted is far lower and they're already, at least locally, very close to that level.

As I was leaving I asked specifically about attending matches. She said personally she wouldn't even consider going to an event with a large crowd of unmasked, and potentially unvaccinated, people.

Not exactly the reassurance I was looking for. On the bright side no cancer, no additional respiratory issues on top of what I already knew about, no issues with immune system, so onto another waiting list (12 months or longer thanks to the backlog) for another department and more tests.
What does she know, she’s not on the ground floor directly at the coalface in Wetherspoons at 10am m8
 

chiefdave

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Sep 27, 2008
28,638
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Interesting thread on vaccine waning

Really encouraging figures for those who are at least 3 weeks post 2nd jab. Out of 51,281 covid deaths this year, up to July 2, only 458 were people who had received 2 doses at least 21 days previously. And of them only 59 were not in the CEV category, that's just 0.1% of deaths.

Maybe Nick doesn't need to get all the fatties locked away after all :)
 

COV

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2021
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Had a visit to the hospital yesterday to see a senior respiratory consultant after over 2 years of waiting. Asked about covid and if particular if I was wrong to be feeling anixious when everyone else seems to be acting like nothing ever happened. To be honest I was hoping for a 'if you're double jabbed there's little to worry about' type answer for re-assurance but I got nothing like that. Wasn't sure if I should post what she said but figured I might as well in case anyone is interested in an experts opinion.

Basically she said this is a long way from being over and people are too comfortable & complacent. Said it was best to look at hospitalisations & deaths rather than cases and both those figures are significantly higher than they were heading into last winter and rising.

Said the 'in the wild' data indicates that vaccination does lower the chance of getting covid and the risk of passing it on if you do have it but people have focused on a single study which shows that in lab conditions, where nose swabs were taken, there could be the same viral load in the vaccinated and unvaccinated but even that showed that in the vaccinated the viral load dropped far quicker than in the unvaccinated.

Also said she hoped that vaccine passports and masks would be introduced, this was before the government announced the winter plan, to minimise hospitalisations without the need for another lockdown.

Finally said people are using terms like 'overwhelm the NHS' without understanding what they are talking about as they say levels aren't as high as last year and therefore the NHS can cope but that required shutting down everything that wasn't critical care to concentrate on covid. The levels of covid hospitalisations the NHS can cope with before other services are impacted is far lower and they're already, at least locally, very close to that level.

As I was leaving I asked specifically about attending matches. She said personally she wouldn't even consider going to an event with a large crowd of unmasked, and potentially unvaccinated, people.

Not exactly the reassurance I was looking for. On the bright side no cancer, no additional respiratory issues on top of what I already knew about, no issues with immune system, so onto another waiting list (12 months or longer thanks to the backlog) for another department and more tests.
Good news for you, sorry to hear about the waiting list though.

Its good to read some common sense on the topic 'from the horses mouth'.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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Jan 11, 2012
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It’s the very definition of false equivalence. It’s like comparing a paper cut to limb amputation.
Not really, they are both viruses that can kill tens of thousands a year even with a vaccination programme. Plus for younger people they’re about equally as high in mortality