City Quash rumors over ten point deduction (1 Viewer)

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Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
City CEO Tim Fisher said: “It’s normal business practice and just means that one Sisu company has call on assets of another Sisu company.


Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...issing-accounts-92746-30996096/#ixzz1vCiPoJVk​

normal to not submit the books on time not pay the rent and put the club in a transfer embargo again ??? wtf i dont think so !!!!:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
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coundonskyblue

coundonskyblue

New Member
Just saying its 'normal business practice' doesn't actually answer the question. Normal in relation to what exactly? A business about to be liquidated perhaps?
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
not filing accounts on time is not normal business practice

Clearly Mr Turner is a sports writer and has no idea when questioning the ARVO debenture, and gets fobbed off with a dismissive reply from TF.
 
coundonskyblue

coundonskyblue

New Member
Also how can it be ok to not file the clubs accounts? Surely there comes a point when the FL steps in and takes action? Surely there comes a point when Companies House has to step in? Can you answer OSB?

This is one of the things I really hate about Sisu, they have such a dismissive tone when question. They answer in a way of 'don't annoy us, we know what we're doing', only history proves they don't!
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
to answer your questions csb

it isnt ok not to file accounts and it could render the directors liable to penalties
the league sanction is a transfer embargo but ultimately (but unlikely) they could kick the club out
Company House kicks in the day after failure to file with automatic penalties on the company (which double up if done a second year) but ultimately they could strike the company off but that procedure takes a while (unlikely that will happen)
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Questions he should have asked

- who are ARVO?
- What is their purpose as far as CCFC goes?
- is there history of ARVO being used by SISU in similar situations ?
- what did they supply or loan to CCFC & CCFC Holdings to enable them to have the charge over the assets
- Why didnt Sconset have the charge ? - It is a SISU company
- Why didnt SBS&L have the charge? - it is a SISU company and used to have a charge
- Is it correct that effectively the assets of the club have now been seperated from the liabilities?
- Is this part of an overall strategy ?
- does this charge put the business at greater risk of administration etc but safe guard the assets for SISU?
- does this mean there are no assets that other creditors can claim against ?
- Is there any significance to the charge being taken out the month before the rent was with held ?
- what other creditors are there ? is the HMRC liability up to date and paid on time ?
- how does this "change nothing"?

and finally to ask himself why he with little finance knowledge is tasked with asking questions a finance journalist should be tasked with.

the CT just blandly accepts statements and questions nothing - reporting statements is a form of journalism but surely they have a duty to ask what is behind it all ?
 
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coundonskyblue

coundonskyblue

New Member
Am I right in thinking the Debenture was taken out only a few months ago? If its normal why has it not been in place for the last 5 years?
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Questions he should have asked

- who are ARVO?
- What is their purpose as far as CCFC goes?
- is there history of ARVO being used by SISU in similar situations ?
- what did they supply or loan to CCFC & CCFC Holdings to enable them to have the charge over the assets
- Why didnt Sconset have the charge ? - It is a SISU company
- Why didnt SBS&L have the charge? - it is a SISU company and used to have a charge
- Is it correct that effectively the assets of the club have now been seperated from the liabilities?
- Is this part of an overall strategy ?
- does this charge put the business at greater risk of administration etc but safe guard the assets for SISU?
- does this mean there are no assets that other creditors can claim against ?
- Is there any significance to the charge being taken out the month before the rent was with held ?
- what other creditors are there ? is the HMRC liability up to date and paid on time ?
- how does this "change nothing"?

and finally to ask himself why he with little finance knowledge is tasked with asking questions a finance journalist should be tasked with.

the CT just blandly accepts statements and questions nothing - reporting statements is a form of journalism but surely they have a duty to ask what is behind it all ?
Click to expand...



If you don't mind OSB, I am going to copy and paste your questions and email them to Andy Turner!
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
22nd March 2012 ......... the debt it is secured against probably didnt exist 5 years ago. Other charges have been in place over the years and removed.
 
DazzleTommyDazzle

DazzleTommyDazzle

Well-Known Member
Smiles are few and far between for a City fan these days, but below the article on the Telegraph website the first Google Ad is "Bankruptcy, do I qualify?"

Someone has a sense of humour!
 
Houchens Head

Houchens Head

Fairly well known member from Malvern
Otis said:
Done!

Will let you know what he says.



Copied and pasted everything apart from questioning his journalistic abilities!
Click to expand...

Yeller belly, yeller belly! Nah, nahnah nah nah nah!! :D :D :D
 
mark82

mark82

Moderator
Otis said:
Done!

Will let you know what he says.



Copied and pasted everything apart from questioning his journalistic abilities!
Click to expand...

Probably a good move. :)

I do feel, even though I no longer live in Coventry, that the CET are letting us down.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I expected more when Turner said he'd investigate. Not good enough! Will check my email later no doubt to see him saying he tried his best.
 
Sumo the Micky Quinn

Sumo the Micky Quinn

Well-Known Member
OK failing to submit accounts is only punishable by being placed in an embargo (rule 16.7.2).

I have been trying to cut & Paste the football league rules but unfortunately it won’t allow me.

Football league rules are available here:
http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-4-clubs_2293633_2125725

Take note of rule 16 Clubs Financial Records & rule 17 HMRC Reporting.


Rule 17.9 Each club shall provide to the Executive, no later than 31 May prior to the commencement of a season (-) an original, irrevocable authority in the form prescribed by the Executive and signed by a director and the company to amounts of PAYE & NIC payable, paid and overdue from the club to HMRC – etc. etc. – The League shall be entitled to forward the Authority to HMRC without having to seek consent of the club.

Rule 17.10 The (football League) Board shall have the power to suspend any club which, not later than 31st May prior to the Commencement of the following season or within 7 days of a request, fails to provide to the executive the Authority in the required form.
Click to expand...

Surly the paperwork mentioned in 17.9 would have to be submitted along with the accounts to the football league.


If you read this section of rules, many punishments can be dished out as they seem fit, from transfer embargos, points deduction to expusion from the league:
http://www.football-league.co.uk/re...-commissions-disputes-appeals_2293633_2125735

Well it did take until the 19th May last year to post the accounts, So if it didn't matter, it's only a tranfer embargo, why didn't they submit them after 31st May last year. :thinking about:
 
coundonskyblue

coundonskyblue

New Member
So if the accounts are not in within 2 weeks the FL will start to investigate why.

Hopefully we will start to get some answers then.
 
M

Maiden Cov

New Member
Sub said:
City CEO Tim Fisher said: “It’s normal business practice and just means that one Sisu company has call on assets of another Sisu company.


Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...issing-accounts-92746-30996096/#ixzz1vCiPoJVk​

normal to not submit the books on time not pay the rent and put the club in a transfer embargo again ??? wtf i dont think so !!!!:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm new and like many on here totally fed up the owners of our club.

Didn't Fisher use a similar quote on 2nd March in a club statement about accounts not being filed. He said "There is nothing untoward about this and it is perfectly normal to be negotiating funding with the owner. We would hope to secure funding in the very next few weeks" ...........few months later and :whistle::whistle::whistle: still no idea. Mr Fisher - there is NOTHING NORMAL about the running of this club and it's getting worse by the week.:jerkit:
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
“It’s normal business practice and just means that one Sisu company has call on assets of another Sisu company. "If you didn’t do that you’d need your head looking at.”


We understand what it is we are asking why are you doing it and why did you decide to do it in March


Why, the two other times that AVRO did this with SISU did those companies shortly after get liquidated?

Why did this only happened in March if you need your head looking at if you had not done it, why not earlier?

What was so special about March, it was not the beginning of the financial year. We had no big review or auditors in then? What provoked this matter of fact common sense business action to be taken then that and not earlier?

Ah yes that was it, it was the month that we entered a transfer embargo, it was the month we started not paying our rent, it was the month we started to threaten to liquidate the club. :thinking about:

That article has cleared it for me now to be fair though. It is normal business practice, I am such a goon. Thinking about it
I have made this stupid mistake before :-

“Our accounts were due on February 29. "As part of the accounts submission process then we have to be able to show committed funding out for the next financial year and, at this stage, we could not do this as we, the board, are still in the process of agreeing and negotiating budgets with the owner."
“There is nothing untoward about this and it is perfectly normal to be negotiating funding with the owner.
"We would hope to secure funding commitments in the very next few weeks."


10 weeks later I have forgotten, sorry and I have made the same stupid mistake


Tim you have a second hand car for sale by any chance? Can you tell me it is worth £400 but charge me £600. Don't worry if you tell me it is normal business practice and there is nothing sinister in it, I will believe you and I will pay up. I am a thick fan remember.

Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...filing-accounts-92746-30444657/#ixzz1vRNUP6KZ

Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom#ixzz1vRKMQa00
​
 
cloughie

cloughie

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Questions he should have asked

- who are ARVO?
- What is their purpose as far as CCFC goes?
- is there history of ARVO being used by SISU in similar situations ?
- what did they supply or loan to CCFC & CCFC Holdings to enable them to have the charge over the assets
- Why didnt Sconset have the charge ? - It is a SISU company
- Why didnt SBS&L have the charge? - it is a SISU company and used to have a charge
- Is it correct that effectively the assets of the club have now been seperated from the liabilities?
- Is this part of an overall strategy ?
- does this charge put the business at greater risk of administration etc but safe guard the assets for SISU?
- does this mean there are no assets that other creditors can claim against ?
- Is there any significance to the charge being taken out the month before the rent was with held ?
- what other creditors are there ? is the HMRC liability up to date and paid on time ?
- how does this "change nothing"?

and finally to ask himself why he with little finance knowledge is tasked with asking questions a finance journalist should be tasked with.

the CT just blandly accepts statements and questions nothing - reporting statements is a form of journalism but surely they have a duty to ask what is behind it all ?
Click to expand...


proper question we would all like answered but I will try to answer three

- is there history of ARVO being used by SISU in similar situations ?

YES-

who are ARVO?

they are effectively sisu

- What is their purpose as far as CCFC goes?

ARVO have bean used by SISU in similar situations


Resulting in liquidation of the company involved and sisu /Avro walking away with the assets without the debts.

Oh well some seem to believe in our saviours sisu...................................As they say you couldn't make it up
 
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