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Ched Evans (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Gint11
  • Start date Jun 22, 2015
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stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #281
Samo said:
All of that is appalling and sad but it does not mean there cannot be an unsafe conviction for that crime.
Click to expand...

You seem adamant that Evans is innocent. He's been found guilty had two rejected appeals and until he can prove otherwise the conviction is not unsafe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #282
Astute said:
Guilty as proven a few times but innocent as soon as there is a bit of doubt?

If this 'new evidence ' is so important why has it not been used by his defence team the previous 3 times?
Click to expand...

I have no idea, perhaps it was not available. This is why we should just let the legal system get on with it.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #283
Astute said:
Guilty as proven a few times but innocent as soon as there is a bit of doubt?

If this 'new evidence ' is so important why has it not been used by his defence team the previous 3 times?
Click to expand...

Think the clue is in the 'new' to be honest, Astute.

Does what it says on the tin.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #284
stupot07 said:
You seem adamant that Evans is innocent. He's been found guilty had two rejected appeals and until he can prove otherwise the conviction is not unsafe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Not in the slightest! Where have I even hinted at that? I just think there is an unbalanced view on here.
 
Last edited: Jun 27, 2015

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #285
Samo said:
Not in the slightest! Where have I even hinted at that? I just think there is a unbalanced view on here.
Click to expand...

Yes agree.

It is a fact that Evans' defence team have submitted so called new evidence and they have successfully had that evidence heard by the CCRC.

This is from 2 days ago.


After successfully applying to have previously unavailable evidence examined by the CCRC, the case was “fast-tracked” last September.. The 26-year-old ex Sheffield United striker gave the Criminal Cases Review Commission ”written submissions” and “witness statements” to add to the evidence already presented in April.

A CCRC spokesman told Journal reporter Dean Jones: “It will be a number of weeks before any decision on the case regarding Mr Evans is announced, and no decision has been made at this stage.


That's all I have been saying. We, as posters on a football forum have no idea what this new evidence is. I think a decision has to be made and hopefully this will be the end of the appeals and either there will be a re-trial or the conviction will continue to stand.

I can't see why there is a problem with someone simply stating this fact on a football forum. A new appeal is being considered now, as we speak.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #286
Samo said:
NW; In the cold light of day, do you stand by this remark?
Click to expand...

Samoi yes, and if you're not grasping the nuances behind it (because it's either written poorly or you're poor at understanding it, I mind not which), then it's pointless discussing it any further really.

Tasteless in the extreme to compare it ot the Birmingham pub bombings in my mind, tasteless to not grasp the context but them's the breaks, we'll have to agree to disagree for both our sakes.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2015

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #287
Deleted member 5849 said:
Samoi yes, and if you're not grasping the nuances behind it (because it's either written poorly or you're poor at understanding it, I mind not which), then it's pointless discussing it any further really.

Tasteless in the extreme to compare it ot the Birmingham pub bombings in my mind, tasteless to not grasp the context but them's the breaks, we'll have to agree to disagree for both our sakes.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear... you think it's wrong for the free press to speculate as to the safety of a criminal conviction? Is that correct?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #288
Samo said:
Just to be clear... you think it's wrong for the free press to speculate as to the safety of a criminal conviction? Is that correct?
Click to expand...

If you're not grasping the nuances behind it (because it's either written poorly or you're poor at understanding it, I mind not which), then it's pointless discussing it any further really.

We'll have to agree to disagree for both our sakes.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #289
Deleted member 5849 said:
If you're not grasping the nuances behind it (because it's either written poorly or you're poor at understanding it, I mind not which), then it's pointless discussing it any further really.

We'll have to agree to disagree for both our sakes.
Click to expand...

What an arrogant and pitiful cop-out.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #290
Samo said:
What an arrogant and pitiful cop-out.
Click to expand...

Not really, because my own personal opinion is you're a bit dense just at the moment, and deciding to read absolute bollocks into things.

I'm tryin g to be nice, rather than to call you a true moron but, if you're going to start throwing mud then...
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #291
Deleted member 5849 said:
Not really, because my own personal opinion is you're a bit dense just at the moment, and deciding to read absolute bollocks into things.

I'm tryin g to be nice, rather than to call you a true moron but, if you're going to start throwing mud then...
Click to expand...

Nice. You could just answer the question?

EDIT; Thought not. You are a small man who cannot admit any misjudgment.
 
Last edited: Jun 27, 2015

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #292
My misjudgement was supporting the City.
 
H

Huckerby

Guest
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #293
Sick Boy said:
So you are an apologist for rape? Nice!
Click to expand...
You going to explain this one or...?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #294
Samo said:
Not in the slightest! Where have I even hinted at that? I just think there is an unbalanced view on here.
Click to expand...

It seems a balanced view to me to see he is guilty. 1 judge 12 jurors found him guilty. 3 judges 1st appeal refused. 3 judges second appeal agreed again with the conviction.

It seems similar to the SISU JR and appeals. You know the way the odds are it should go. But there is that small niggling doubt in the very back of your mind.
 

robbieray

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #295
Thought this thread was going to be closed
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #296
Samo said:
So anyone expressing any other view than that of the prosecution is showing a 'savage disregard for a victim of crime'? It's a good thing those that fought for the rights of the Birmingham Six were not of the same mind. Disgusting post from someone who should know better.
Click to expand...

Well if they were innocent the charming Mr Adams could have revealed who was accountable couldn't he?

He didn't and so no one knows who was guilty

There are far more valid causes to get worked up about than that.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #297
Grendel said:
Well if they were innocent the charming Mr Adams could have revealed who was accountable couldn't he?

He didn't and so no one knows who was guilty

There are far more valid causes to get worked up about than that.
Click to expand...

Like Ched Evans?
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #298
I'm surprised this thread is still going. However regarding appeals and whether you can have several being right or just here's my own experience. While not the same seriousness the principal is the same:

Many years ago I was prosecuted for serving alcohol to non members of my club. I faced judgement from the courts under a prosecution brought by the police. Of course I was found guilty. I appealed and again found guilty. Without getting into the ramifications of the case I can say that I was certainly not guilty of the offense but was subject to poor police actions and set for a need to get a guilty verdict by many supporters (residents and council officials among them)

So I took them on an appeal to the high court and it cost me some 16k to get a top QC and when that case was heard it took just 5 minutes for the police to be discredited and I won my case. Cost were awarded that for some reason I never saw and I kept my licence.

The lesson here is appeals are part of the system and can in some cases (not saying in Evans case) bring forth the real truth that otherwise was treated lightly in the original hearings.

Incidentally the chief of police 18 months later had a private meeting request with me and I quote " you will not get a licence in my town ever, over my dead body" when I bought my second club.

So the second lesson here is not to assume everything is correct because the courts or the police have said so. If you do you're already fcuked!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #299
Sick Boy said:
Rape is on par with murder and sentences should be a lot tougher
Click to expand...

That's a no then?

I agree BTW Ive seen close up the damage sexual abuse does to a person. I'm also in a profession where false accusations have ruined not just careers but cost lives. Let's not play the "my thing is worse than your thing" game.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #300
shmmeee said:
That's a no then?

I agree BTW Ive seen close up the damage sexual abuse does to a person. I'm also in a profession where false accusations have ruined not just careers but cost lives. Let's not play the "my thing is worse than your thing" game.
Click to expand...


No, but I'm happy to play the my thing is bigger than your thing game if you like.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #301
It has to be said that the SBT intelligentsia has not emerged well from this debate. I fully agree that CE has been found guilty and is guilty but it seems that the majority are of the opinion, (either directly expressed or implied) that:
1. If he were to be found innocent after a further appeal he would still be guilty.
2. That he should not be allowed a further appeal.
3. That the conviction should be trusted along with denied appeals but that any further appeal should not be.
4. Anybody, including the press, should not be allowed to express concern over the safety of the conviction as this might upsetting for the victim. (including forum posters)
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #302
Samo said:
It has to be said that the SBT intelligentsia has not emerged well from this debate. I fully agree that CE has been found guilty and is guilty but it seems that the majority are of the opinion, (either directly expressed or implied) that:
1. If he were to be found innocent after a further appeal he would still be guilty.
2. That he should not be allowed a further appeal.
3. That the conviction should be trusted along with denied appeals but that any further appeal should not be.
4. Anybody, including the press, should not be allowed to express concern over the safety of the conviction as this might upsetting for the victim. (including forum posters)
Click to expand...

1, He wasn't planning to be in the hotel room until he found out that an intoxicated woman was in there. Not the actions of what you would expect.

2, How many appeals should he be allowed?

3, Should further prosecutions be allowed if he manages to be found not guilty? No. So why should he be allowed unlimited appeals?

4, Why shouldn't anyone be able to say that they see him as guilty if they are allowed to express concern?
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #303
Astute said:
1, He wasn't planning to be in the hotel room until he found out that an intoxicated woman was in there. Not the actions of what you would expect. Nothing to do with my point

2, How many appeals should he be allowed? As many as it fucking takes if there is new evidence

3, Should further prosecutions be allowed if he manages to be found not guilty? No. So why should he be allowed unlimited appeals? Yes of course

4, Why shouldn't anyone be able to say that they see him as guilty if they are allowed to express concern? Say what you want it's a free country, you've missed my point.
Click to expand...
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #304
It has all been about your point Samo. And it seems the only point you are interested in.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #305
Astute said:
It has all been about your point Samo. And it seems the only point you are interested in.
Click to expand...

Oh dear... a rather limp white flag.
 
A

armybike

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #306
Can I submit an appeal that this thread is closed/moved an reopened if Ched signs for CCFC?
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #307
armybike said:
Can I submit an appeal that this thread is closed/moved an reopened if Ched signs for CCFC?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Lay this to rest for Christ's sake!
 
S

Shakeitup

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #308
Astute said:
1, He wasn't planning to be in the hotel room until he found out that an intoxicated woman was in there. Not the actions of what you would expect.

2, How many appeals should he be allowed?

3, Should further prosecutions be allowed if he manages to be found not guilty? No. So why should he be allowed unlimited appeals?

4, Why shouldn't anyone be able to say that they see him as guilty if they are allowed to express concern?
Click to expand...

Huh?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #309
Samo said:
Oh dear... a rather limp white flag.
Click to expand...

You are not interested in why he went to the hotel room. Yet if he never went to it nothing would have happened. Or is it that him going to the hotel room is undefendable?
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #310
Astute said:
You are not interested in why he went to the hotel room. Yet if he never went to it nothing would have happened. Or is it that him going to the hotel room is undefendable?
Click to expand...

Astute... It is none of our business, let the legal process sort it. I have made it clear from the outset that I am playing devil's advocate and that is because of the dangerous opinions expressed on here. (as mentioned above) I am not comfortable with the lynch mob mentality that I've seen on here and I will make no apology for that.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #311
Samo said:
It has to be said that the SBT intelligentsia has not emerged well from this debate. I fully agree that CE has been found guilty and is guilty but it seems that the majority are of the opinion, (either directly expressed or implied) that:
1. If he were to be found innocent after a further appeal he would still be guilty.
2. That he should not be allowed a further appeal.
3. That the conviction should be trusted along with denied appeals but that any further appeal should not be.
4. Anybody, including the press, should not be allowed to express concern over the safety of the conviction as this might upsetting for the victim. (including forum posters)
Click to expand...

What a crock of shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
S

Shakeitup

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #312
Astute said:
1, He wasn't planning to be in the hotel room until he found out that an intoxicated woman was in there. Not the actions of what you would expect.

2, How many appeals should he be allowed?

3, Should further prosecutions be allowed if he manages to be found not guilty? No. So why should he be allowed unlimited appeals?

4, Why shouldn't anyone be able to say that they see him as guilty if they are allowed to express concern?
Click to expand...

Astute said:
Yet if he never went to it nothing would have happened. Or is it that him going to the hotel room is undefendable?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't she have accused Clayton McDonald?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #313
Shakeitup said:
Wouldn't she have accused Clayton McDonald?
Click to expand...

She did but he got acquitted as it appeared she went under her own free (albeit drunk) will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #314
stupot07 said:
What a crock of shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

A well thought out argument... How so?
 
Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
S

Shakeitup

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2015
  • #315
stupot07 said:
She did but he got acquitted as it appeared she went under her own free (albeit drunk) will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Exactly. So even is Evans hadn't of gone this would have happened (allegedly).

I think what's happened in this thread is that many people are playing Devil's Advocate and are expressing their opinion and dissatisfaction with the British judicial system rather than the innocence or guilt of particular parties. People are talking hypothetically and not specifically.

As I've said before, we will never know what actually happened in the lead up to it, in that room and subsequently via text or on Facebook. I think that's what most people here who are being accused of being 'savages' are talking about.
 
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