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Ched Evans (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Gint11
  • Start date Jun 22, 2015
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Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #211
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well they too are showing a savage disregard for a victim of a crime, and are causing in their own way others to probably consider whether it's worth coming forward or not.

The Chuckle Brothers have a very interesting take on this.
Click to expand...

Do the Chuckle Brothers follow court cases as part of their job?

NW, you are better than this. I'm not talking about any old Tom, Dick, or Harry. These are people who follow court cases as part of their jobs.

This is getting totally ridiculous.

And in case you are a little deaf, I BELIEVE HIM TO BE GUILTY!!!!!

:facepalm:
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #212
Otis said:
Do the Chuckle Brothers follow court cases as part of their job?

NW, you are better than this. I'm not talking about any old Tom, Dick, or Harry. These are people who follow court cases as part of their jobs.

This is getting totally ridiculous.

And in case you are a little deaf, I BELIEVE HIM TO BE GUILTY!!!!!

:facepalm:
Click to expand...

It's getting totally ridiculous because you appear to be wilfully missing my point.

Oh it makes me laugh how you can't get it.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #213
We need to sit down over a pint and I bet to a pound to a shilling we have exactly the same view on rape and what constitutes rape.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #214
Otis said:
We need to sit down over a pint and I bet to a pound to a shilling we have exactly the same view on rape and what constitutes rape.
Click to expand...

But would we have the same view as Anne Diamond?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #215
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's getting totally ridiculous because you appear to be wilfully missing my point.

Oh it makes me laugh how you can't get it.
Click to expand...


So, what is your point? It just seems I am not allowed to say some people who followed the case say there is cause for the conviction to be declared unsafe. I'm pretty sure it isn't just about what constitutes rape either by all accounts.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #216
Deleted member 5849 said:
But would we have the same view as Anne Diamond?
Click to expand...

I don't know what her view is.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #217
I've just found some evidence that Hitler did no wrong. http://nazisweregoodpeople.tumblr.com

It must be true it's on the Internet.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #218
stupot07 said:
I've just found some evidence that Hitler did no wrong. http://nazisweregoodpeople.tumblr.com

It must be true it's on the Internet.
Click to expand...


Stupot, has anyone, anywhere on here said the verdict was wrong? Anyone at all?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #219
stupot07 said:
I've just found some evidence that Hitler did no wrong. http://nazisweregoodpeople.tumblr.com

It must be true it's on the Internet.
Click to expand...

Napolean was a top chap too according to the presenter of the recent BBC trilogy.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #220
'Ched Evans has successfully applied to have previously unavailable evidence examined by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.'

I do believe he is allowed to do that and the CCRC have quite rightly decided to look at the previously unavailable evidence.

Besides, if Hitler had been alive and found guilty of war crimes, I am pretty sure he would have the right to appeal.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #221
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well they too are showing a savage disregard for a victim of a crime, and are causing in their own way others to probably consider whether it's worth coming forward or not.

The Chuckle Brothers have a very interesting take on this.
Click to expand...

So anyone expressing any other view than that of the prosecution is showing a 'savage disregard for a victim of crime'? It's a good thing those that fought for the rights of the Birmingham Six were not of the same mind. Disgusting post from someone who should know better.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #222
Samo said:
So anyone expressing any other view than that of the prosecution is showing a 'savage disregard for a victim of crime'? It's a good thing those that fought for the rights of the Birmingham Six were not of the same mind. Disgusting post from someone who should know better.
Click to expand...


To be fair, NW is usually a top, top poster.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #223
Samo said:
So anyone expressing any other view than that of the prosecution is showing a 'savage disregard for a victim of crime'? It's a good thing those that fought for the rights of the Birmingham Six were not of the same mind. Disgusting post from someone who should know better.
Click to expand...

It's not exactly the same, is it.

Given the whole argument being mooted is the girl wasn't that drunk after all... it'd be like suggesting those who were targeted in the Birmingham Pub bombings were asking for it and made the whole thing up.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #224
Otis said:
To be fair, NW is usually a top, top poster.
Click to expand...

Yes... and he should know better.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #225
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's not exactly the same, is it.

Given the whole argument being mooted is the girl wasn't that drunk after all... it'd be like suggesting those who were targeted in the Birmingham Pub bombings were asking for it and made the whole thing up.
Click to expand...

There is a deeper principal involved here as you well know.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #226
Samo said:
There is a deeper principal involved here as you well know.
Click to expand...

The principle of not putting a victim of a crime on trial after the event, yes.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #227
Samo said:
There is certainly room for debate as demonstrated on here. And if you think this is over you are very naive.
Click to expand...

Well I suppose so. I guess this is exactly the kind of debate that the defence team want.

There is always debate and their is always conjecture. The ultimate truth though is that 12 people looked at the evidence in a courtroom and decided he was guilty. I have been on a jury. They are curious affairs but ultimately the system works. They view evidence and they look at the people in the dock.

They form opinions. They are in 99% of circumstances they are right.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #228
Deleted member 5849 said:
The principle of not putting a victim of a crime on trial after the event, yes.
Click to expand...

Who is doing that? You know exactly what I am talking about.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #229
Grendel said:
Well I suppose so. I guess this is exactly the kind of debate that the defence team want.

There is always debate and their is always conjecture. The ultimate truth though is that 12 people looked at the evidence in a courtroom and decided he was guilty. I have been on a jury. They are curious affairs but ultimately the system works. They view evidence and they look at the people in the dock.

They form opinions. They are in 99% of circumstances they are right.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with that.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #230
Grendel said:
Well I suppose so. I guess this is exactly the kind of debate that the defence team want.

There is always debate and their is always conjecture. The ultimate truth though is that 12 people looked at the evidence in a courtroom and decided he was guilty. I have been on a jury. They are curious affairs but ultimately the system works. They view evidence and they look at the people in the dock.

They form opinions. They are in 99% of circumstances they are right.
Click to expand...

Are they? Please supply the evidence to back that claim.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #231
Samo said:
Who is doing that? You know exactly what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

Well this thread has some very unsavoury opinions in places, doing exactly that.

So, indeed, do certain newspaper articles.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #232
Grendel said:
Well I suppose so. I guess this is exactly the kind of debate that the defence team want.

There is always debate and their is always conjecture. The ultimate truth though is that 12 people looked at the evidence in a courtroom and decided he was guilty. I have been on a jury. They are curious affairs but ultimately the system works. They view evidence and they look at the people in the dock.

They form opinions. They are in 99% of circumstances they are right.
Click to expand...

The fact is that miscarriages of justice happen all the time and sometimes it takes many decades to right those wrongs.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #233
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well this thread has some very unsavoury opinions in places, doing exactly that.

So, indeed, do certain newspaper articles.
Click to expand...

As is yours in my opinion.
 
Last edited: Jun 26, 2015

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #234
Samo said:
The fact is that miscarriages of justice happen all the time and sometimes it takes many decades to right those wrongs.
Click to expand...

Do they happen all the time, or just sometimes?

If you were to look at all the Criminal Cases dealt with by the courts, I would say the percentage of miscarraiges are very very small. Obviously if you have evidence to the contrary I would be happy to read it.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #235
Samo said:
As is yours in my opinion. You are the polar opposite of those who would lynch him and as such, just like them, an enemy of reason
Click to expand...

I'm the polar opposite of those who would lynch him?
Actually, I'll edit that line out.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #236
Deleted member 5849 said:
The principle of not putting a victim of a crime on trial after the event, yes.
Click to expand...


Agree with this too, but if someone found guilty does have further evidence, not heard in court, then he has a right to appeal. Hope this doesn't involve the victim back in court, but justice must be seen to be done.

As it stands, justice was done and Evans rightly convicted. If he has new evidence though that could change the ruling, this needs to be heard.

The CCRC are not mugs and they will judge it inadmissible or not on sufficient grounds and will dismiss it. If it casts doubt on the verdict the court will hear the right of appeal.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #237
Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm the polar opposite of those who would lynch him?
Actually, I'll edit that line out.
Click to expand...

Just as dangerous, my mistake it's late!
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #238
Otis said:
Agree with this too, but if someone found guilty does have further evidence, not heard in court, then he has a right to appeal.
Click to expand...

He does.

And wouldn't it have been nice if 'new evidence' had been seen through the court, rather than the defendent dragging up character aspersions through the media.

Hope this doesn't involve the victim back in court, but justice must be seen to be done.
Click to expand...

The victim having to give evidence in court may be traumatic, but is somewhat different to a trial through media.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #239
Moff said:
Do they happen all the time, or just sometimes?

If you were to look at all the Criminal Cases dealt with by the courts, I would say the percentage of miscarraiges are very very small. Obviously if you have evidence to the contrary I would be happy to read it.
Click to expand...

Do you have evidence to support that view?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #240
Samo said:
Just as dangerous, my mistake it's late!
Click to expand...

Then perhaps when you awake in the morning you'll see the nuance
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #241
Deleted member 5849 said:
He does.

And wouldn't it have been nice if 'new evidence' had been seen through the court, rather than the defendent dragging up character aspersions through the media.


The victim having to give evidence in court may be traumatic, but is somewhat different to a trial through media.
Click to expand...

Has not the defendant (if eventually proven innocent) endured both?
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #242
Samo said:
Do you have evidence to support that view?
Click to expand...

Yes the small amount of overturned cases that go through the legal system. The proportion is a tiny percentage of all cases heard.

Do you have evidence to the contrary? as you stated they happen all the time, as I would be interested to see the evidence you base this from.
Obviously Samo if you can provide detail showing what you said is true, I will stand corrected.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #243
Deleted member 5849 said:
Then perhaps when you awake in the morning you'll see the nuance
Click to expand...

Doubt it. I rarely get confused about fairness.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #244
Deleted member 5849 said:
He does.

And wouldn't it have been nice if 'new evidence' had been seen through the court, rather than the defendent dragging up character aspersions through the media.



The victim having to give evidence in court may be traumatic, but is somewhat different to a trial through media.
Click to expand...

Agree.

Sounds like a lot of this new 'evidence' is witness statements. That does seem to hold much credence I would have thought. People do lie on behalf of others.

He certainly needs something a bit more concrete, unless these witnesses are police officers, or people from the victim's side changing stories.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 26, 2015
  • #245
Samo said:
Has not the defendant (if eventually proven innocent) endured both?
Click to expand...

If the defendent were to eventually be proven innocent, he would deserve an extremely large payout, and the chat show of his choice.

He hasn't, however. Not at three times of trying.

The victim however has been proven the victim on three separate occasions, and now has to go through it all a fourth time.

It isn't exactly a ringing endorsement to encourage people to come forward.
 
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