Non AMP
Sky Blues Talk
  • Home
  • Forums
  • Coventry City Football Club
  • Football & Other Sports
This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Ched Evans (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Gint11
  • Start date Jun 22, 2015
Forums New posts
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 19
  • 20
  • 21
  • 22
  • 23
Next
First Prev 21 of 23 Next Last

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #701
Grendel said:
British justice sinks into the gutter shocker

The reality is that the admission of new witnesses to describe sexual history of a victim makes a mockery of the system completely.

The almost blatent suggestion that these witnesses were also paid to give their evidence makes it beyond any credibility.

The original trial was done with a jury given the evidence as was permitted and making that judgement.

Since then we have had an appeal through in record time, a hugely biased website and blatent intimidation tactics of people who stood in this individuals way.

The ultimate test I guess for what people would really think is if your daughter bought her new boyfriend and proudly introduced Ched Evans

Some on her may find that fine and dandy. Others I suspect may have their reservations.

Not a great day for British justice
Click to expand...
Is anyone trying to say he wouldid be a great boyfriend or are they saying he's not a rapist?

The poor day foe the justice system was when they sent a man to jail bas3r on 5h3 fact a girl couldn't remember having sex with him
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #702
robbiekeane said:
Is anyone trying to say he wouldid be a great boyfriend or are they saying he's not a rapist?

The poor day foe the justice system was when they sent a man to jail bas3r on 5h3 fact a girl couldn't remember having sex with him
Click to expand...

That's the law. That's the right way to deal with it. I have no sympathy for the loathsome creature
 
Reactions: Astute

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #703
CCFC88 said:
So she was of the opinion that she wasn't raped? Did she not give evidence in the trial?
Click to expand...
She's always said she couldn't remember what happened. Evans admitted he had sex with her and then the police and prosecutors took the case on from there
 
Reactions: Astute

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #704
Grendel said:
That's the law. That's the right way to deal with it. I have no sympathy for the loathsome creature
Click to expand...
What do you mean that's the law sorry? That if you don't remember something then you didn't consent to it?
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #705
robbiekeane said:
A scumbag maybe, at least at that point in time. A rapist though?? It's a completely different level and people like you condemning him the way you did should be ashamed of yourself.

Hadn't he been drinking himself?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty he had not been drinking, cba to go and check though
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #706
robbiekeane said:
What do you mean that's the law sorry? That if you don't remember something then you didn't consent to it?
Click to expand...

Yes that is the law.
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #707
Grendel said:
Yes that is the law.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #708
Evo1883 said:
End of the day, he's an innocent man proven by a court of law .
Isn't that the argument people used about him being guilty ??
Time to move on , horrible ordeal for all involved
Click to expand...
Exactly, all these idiots now saying the woman must now be punished and publicly named are idiots and I really don't think understood anything from the beginning.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge, Otis, hill83 and 1 other person

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #709
robbiekeane said:
That is incorrect.
Click to expand...

https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/ne...consent-in-rape-allegations-a-double-standard
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #710
robbiekeane said:
Do you know what the word "if" means?

Are you going to point out where I said I knew what happened?
Click to expand...
So you made it up then but worded it so it looks like the truth. Well done.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #711
robbiekeane said:
That is incorrect.
Click to expand...
You don't have a clue do you.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #712
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I studied this case a lot at university intensively, and it didn't feel right from day one at all.

He's a bad role model no doubt, and his actions were a bit idiotic, but nothing worse than what goes on during uni and Saturday nights across the world.

In fact, it's shit like this that decreases real rape convictions. The 'victim' is less believed and generally the evidence needs to be without proven beyond doubt, (the latter never was for me here) as a result of false claims and the like.

Look at Sweden, highest reported rape in Europe, but also the lowest conviction rapes in Europe. Real victims get hung out to dry thanks to so many false accusations or cowboy cases like this one.
Click to expand...
I think the law has to decide what it wants and stick with it. Is taking advantage of a drunk woman whose decision making is compromised considered rape or not, obviously it's a scummy thing to do and no man should do it but the question that needs answering is whether or not it is rape. The law can't have it both ways and change to when it suits.

I think this case is a bit different to the argument that this stuff happens all the time on weekends at nightclubs, it wasn't the case of two drunk people meet in a public place and decide to go home together have a bit of fun.

If a person goes to a hotel room with the intention of having sex with a drunk woman hes never met or even spoken to before, he's definitely on dodgy grounds and at the very least worth investigating further.
 
Reactions: martcov, Astute and stupot07

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #713
stupot07 said:
1) because he was found innocent doesn't mean he didn't do it, it just means he can't be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
a) he didn't rape her
b) she falsely accused him
c) she wasnt and still isn't a victim in all of this.

2) Yes his life as been ruined, but so has hers - she's had to go through all this ordeal too, she's been abused, harrased, etc

3) it sits really uncomfortable for me that someone's previous sex life has been allowed in this case. Its now going to be used as a test case as a defense against every rape victim. Just because someone does something with one partner doesn't mean she is therefore always game and can't be raped

4) I'm extremely uncomfortable with the fact Evans is paying witnesses.

5) I'm fucking disgusted with one or two on here already vilifying the girl. The police and CPS have made the decision that they believed and had evidence to suggest she was raped. It doesn't mean she is a lier and doesn't deserved to be called so.

I'll leave it as that.

Even with this verdict I wouldn't want the twat near our club.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It's a difficult one isn't it, but at the back of my mind (And I am not talking about this case), if there were a rape allegation, but the girl had a history of being 'free and easy' with her body, that MAY have some relevance mightn't it?

It's an eggshell thing for sure and there is no definitive answer, but I can see that in some cases that someone's sexual past might just hold some relevance.

It's not about how many partners someone has had, but how they have behaved previously may just may be relevant.

As I say, it's not at all black and white and it could set a dangerous precedence if a carte blanche is allowed for all cases.
 
Last edited: Oct 14, 2016

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #714
I mean, his first name is Chedwyn ffs
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #715
Chedwyn ffs?

That's a very odd name for sure.
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #716
fernandopartridge said:
I mean, his first name is Chedwyn ffs
Click to expand...

First name Keith
 
Reactions: Astute, Covstu and Otis

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #717
Grendel said:
British justice sinks into the gutter shocker

The reality is that the admission of new witnesses to describe sexual history of a victim makes a mockery of the system completely.

The almost blatent suggestion that these witnesses were also paid to give their evidence makes it beyond any credibility.

The original trial was done with a jury given the evidence as was permitted and making that judgement.

Since then we have had an appeal through in record time, a hugely biased website and blatent intimidation tactics of people who stood in this individuals way.

The ultimate test I guess for what people would really think is if your daughter bought her new boyfriend and proudly introduced Ched Evans

Some on her may find that fine and dandy. Others I suspect may have their reservations.

Not a great day for British justice
Click to expand...
it's been there for a long time to be honest.
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #718
Grendel said:
https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/ne...consent-in-rape-allegations-a-double-standard
Click to expand...
Which bit in particular?
 

Gazolba

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #719
"Not guilty" does not mean you didn't do it. It just means they couldn't prove you did it.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #720
Gazolba said:
"Not guilty" does not mean you didn't do it. It just means they couldn't prove you did it.
Click to expand...
True. This one is slightly different though as he was convicted and then they said the conviction was unsafe and new evidence has been brought forwards.

The whole thing is a sorry mess.

Guessing now though that Evans might seek compensation for his incarceration.

Could drag on a while longer yet.
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #721
Gazolba said:
"Not guilty" does not mean you didn't do it. It just means they couldn't prove you did it.
Click to expand...
Then how did they prove it the first time ?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #722
Otis said:
It's a difficult one isn't it, but at the back of my mind (And I am not talking about this case), if there were a rape allegation, but the girl had a history of being 'free and easy' with her body, that MAY have some relevance mightn't it?
Click to expand...

No, a girl can be a massive slag and still be raped. More relevant would be if she, for example, has a record of false allegations or of doing kiss and tell or something, otherwise I don't see how her sexual history is relevant.

That said, this case has never sat right with me. Her story is dodgy and I don't buy the "you can't consent when drunk" line simply because there's so many degrees of intoxication. "Drunk" is a fuzzy concept and shouldn't be used to make these kind of decisions. Personally, despite drinking inordinate amounts at times, I've never blacked out, lost time or not had control, that's just how I am. Some people need two pints and they're a different person. Expecting a third party to be able to accurately judge how in control someone is is unfair IMO. A person who physically can't consent due to being paralytic is one thing, a person who is capable of taking part in a conversation reliably can IMO.

Most of all the law and society in general (as that is who the law is supposed to serve) needs to work out the answers to these questions because the worst thing at the moment is different people have very different views of consent and sexual assault. Ranging from ideas that would literally halve the birthrate if implemented to Trumpesque pussying grabbing is just a bit of banter. Sadly, the two extremes seem to be the ones interested in having the debate.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #723
Gazolba said:
"Not guilty" does not mean you didn't do it. It just means they couldn't prove you did it.
Click to expand...

No, not guilty has to mean not guilty. I don't want to live under a justice system of trial by rumour thanks.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #724
Otis said:
True. This one is slightly different though as he was convicted and then they said the conviction was unsafe and new evidence has been brought forwards.

The whole thing is a sorry mess.

Guessing now though that Evans might seek compensation for his incarceration.

Could drag on a while longer yet.
Click to expand...
The new evidence was someone changing what he had previously said. And this is after a 50k offer if someone could help Evans get a not guilty verdict. This does not sit well with me at all.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #725
shmmeee said:
No, not guilty has to mean not guilty. I don't want to live under a justice system of trial by rumour thanks.
Click to expand...
If that is the case then guilty should mean guilty.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #726
Astute said:
The new evidence was someone changing what he had previously said. And this is after a 50k offer if someone could help Evans get a not guilty verdict. This does not sit well with me at all.
Click to expand...

It doesn't me either but... I have to agree that the same as guilty should be accepted, so should not guilty.

So he's not guilty.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #727
shmmeee said:
No, a girl can be a massive slag and still be raped. More relevant would be if she, for example, has a record of false allegations or of doing kiss and tell or something, otherwise I don't see how her sexual history is relevant.
Click to expand...

Which is what I was kind of hinting at.

Judge allowed the two blokes' testimony, so I do wonder if that was the way the case was heading.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #728
Giving someone 50 grand who is part of a court case against you can't be legal surely? And should the prosecuting lawyer be asking why the person who has been paid has suddenly changed their story?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #729
Astute said:
The new evidence was someone changing what he had previously said. And this is after a 50k offer if someone could help Evans get a not guilty verdict. This does not sit well with me at all.
Click to expand...
For balance though, Astute, the girl hasn't been solid with her testimony and account either. And then of course there was the talk of her planning to buy a new mini as a result of the trial and her story.

It is not black and white at all.

I don't think this is a straight forward case. He was found guilty, but then appealed and only 5% of cases are accepted for appeal. Appeal was then granted and the conviction then quoshed and now proven not guilty.

I am sure the new evidence was not just two blokes' 'changing their stories.'

Cannot believe for a second an appeal would have been granted just on that basis.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, hill83 and Samo

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #730
stupot07 said:
1) because he was found innocent doesn't mean he didn't do it, it just means he can't be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
a) he didn't rape her
b) she falsely accused him
c) she wasnt and still isn't a victim in all of this.

2) Yes his life as been ruined, but so has hers - she's had to go through all this ordeal too, she's been abused, harrased, etc

3) it sits really uncomfortable for me that someone's previous sex life has been allowed in this case. Its now going to be used as a test case as a defense against every rape victim. Just because someone does something with one partner doesn't mean she is therefore always game and can't be raped

4) I'm extremely uncomfortable with the fact Evans is paying witnesses.

5) I'm fucking disgusted with one or two on here already vilifying the girl. The police and CPS have made the decision that they believed and had evidence to suggest she was raped. It doesn't mean she is a lier and doesn't deserved to be called so.

I'll leave it as that.

Even with this verdict I wouldn't want the twat near our club.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I agree with every word of that, but... will those who indulged in some very black and white thinking on this subject not so long ago now accept that he is ''innocent'' no matter what their opinion may be of him as a person?
 
Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
Reactions: vow, Astute and Otis

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #731
shmmeee said:
No, not guilty has to mean not guilty. I don't want to live under a justice system of trial by rumour thanks.
Click to expand...

You've made analogies in the past about sisu and "battered wives syndrome" haven't you?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #732
Otis said:
For balance though, Astute, the girl hasn't been solid with her testimony and account either. And then of course there was the talk of her planning to buy a new mini as a result of the trial and her story.

It is not black and white at all.

I don't think this is a straight forward case. He was found guilty, but then appealed and only 5% of cases are accepted for appeal. Appeal was then granted and the conviction then quoshed and now proven not guilty.

I am sure the new evidence was not just two blokes' 'changing their stories.'

Cannot believe for a second an appeal would have been granted just on that basis.
Click to expand...

The appeal was based on a very unusual allowance of former sexual partners gibing evidence - people paid by the Evans team.
 
Reactions: Astute

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #733
Samo said:
I agree with every word of that, but... will those who indulged in some very black and white thinking on this subject not so long ago now accept that he is ''innocent'' no matter what their opinion may be of him as a person?
Click to expand...

No I believe he raped her.
 

Covstu

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #734
I wonder where this takes him in respect to football?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2016
  • #735
Covstu said:
I wonder where this takes him in respect to football?
Click to expand...
Well he's playing anyway, so not a lot, unless a more high profile club wishes to take a punt on him.

I still wouldn't want him here, but now he has been found not guilty I am sure a lot of clubs will now be taking an interest in the bloke.
 
Reactions: Astute
Prev
  • 1
  • …
  • 19
  • 20
  • 21
  • 22
  • 23
Next
First Prev 21 of 23 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Share:
Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email
  • Home
  • Forums
  • Coventry City Football Club
  • Football & Other Sports
  • Default Style
  • Contact us
  • Terms and rules
  • Privacy policy
  • Help
  • Home
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2021 XenForo Ltd.
Menu
Log in

Register

  • Home
  • Forums
    • New posts
    • Search forums
  • What's new
    • New posts
    • Latest activity
  • Members
    • Current visitors
  • Donate to the Season Ticket Fund
X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?