CCFC comments on rent - cov city mad. (1 Viewer)

magic82ball · Dec 7, 2013

mark82 said:
As Nick says they did try before withholding rent. That forced ACL to negotiate.

And? Why would ACL negotiate? they were on to a good thing with that sort of ridiculous rent. Furthermore, why SHOULD they negotiate? there seems to be this myth that ACL, an independent business, somehow has a duty of care or responsibility towards the club and that they should have charged lower rents than they were able to achieve. WHY?

The bottom line in my view is the rent should have been negotiated to a sensible figure when purchasing the club, it wasn't, SISU signed the lease and then refused to pay for the service as it no longer suited them and we now find ourselves in this crazy situation. Poor, poor, poor.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

magic82ball said:
And? Why would ACL negotiate? they were on to a good thing with that sort of ridiculous rent. Furthermore, why SHOULD they negotiate? there seems to be this myth that ACL, an independent business, somehow has a duty of care or responsibility towards the club and that they should have charged lower rents than they were able to achieve. WHY?

The bottom line in my view is the rent should have been negotiated to a sensible figure when purchasing the club, it wasn't, SISU signed the lease and then refused to pay for the service as it no longer suited them and we now find ourselves in this crazy situation. Poor, poor, poor.

Says the ACL spokesperson on a fans football forum.

magic82ball · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
Says the ACL spokesperson on a fans football forum.

Easy question, if you were a landlord and could get, say £600pm, would you charge less?

ccfcway · Dec 7, 2013

magic82ball said:
Easy question, if you were a landlord and could get, say £600pm, would you charge less?

especially if you knew your tennant was making £1k, and could only make £300 elsewhere

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

ccfcway said:
Not at all, but a quick fact.....

At Ricoh..........£15 a ticket x 10,000 x 23 (home games) = £3.45 million
At Sixfields......£15 a ticket x 2000 x 23 (home games) = £690k

Even if the Ricoh were charging £2 million a year, we would still be better off than we are this season !

We averaged £10 a ticket at the Ricoh.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

magic82ball said:
Easy question, if you were a landlord and could get, say £600pm, would you charge less?

There getting £0 a month aren't they?

ccfcway · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
We averaged £10 a ticket at the Ricoh.

lets go with that then...

At Ricoh..........£10 a ticket x 10,000 x 23 (home games) = £2.30 million
At Sixfields......£15 a ticket x 2000 x 23 (home games) = £690k

Take off the £1.2 million "rent" and thats £1.1 million profit from the Ricoh

Next ?

Oh, And i am sure we dont average £15 at Sixfeilds due to free tickets etc, but still, we can park that one

magic82ball · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
There getting £0 a month aren't they?

Well yes, SISU fucked them over, refused to pay rent and moved to Northampton - this all happened months ago. Please keep up.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

magic82ball said:
Easy question, if you were a landlord and could get, say £600pm, would you charge less?

magic82ball said:
Well yes, SISU fucked them over, refused to pay rent and moved to Northampton - this all happened months ago. Please keep up.

Sorry bit in your simplistic analysis you said would you charge less if you get £600 a month but they can't if they live in a house no one else wants and the tenant suddenly wakes up to the fact can they? Tenant suddenly offers 1 pence and because Sally is already booked I think they'd except the deal. I know your not the brightest in here but even you can see that can't you? Or is 82 really your IQ?

Rusty Trombone · Dec 7, 2013

The rent cost analogy works well in certain arguments, but remember this is a cost that helps generate income, and sometimes a higher cost may well generate substantially more income.

Grendel, what rent figure do you think would be fair to charge for the use of the Ricoh?

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

magic82ball said:
Easy question, if you were a landlord and could get, say £600pm, would you charge less?

Rusty Trombone said:
The rent cost analogy works well in certain arguments, but remember this is a cost that helps generate income, and sometimes a higher cost may well generate substantially more income.

Grendel, what rent figure do you think would be fair to charge for the use of the Ricoh?

I believe we overpaid by £4 million during our tenure at least - we should have it free for a decade at least and when I say free I mean free not a quarter of a million plus match costs.

Rusty Trombone · Dec 7, 2013

Thanks, so presumably the £4m over 10 years means that after this period you believe £400k per year to be a fair charge?

skybluetony176 · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
I believe we overpaid by £4 million during our tenure at least - we should have it free for a decade at least and when I say free I mean free not a quarter of a million plus match costs.

do you think sh1tsu would agree to that?

ccfcway · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
I believe we overpaid by £4 million during our tenure at least - we should have it free for a decade at least and when I say free I mean free not a quarter of a million plus match costs.

Over paid ?

If anything, compared to this season, we have made too much profit...

At Ricoh..........£10 a ticket x 10,000 x 23 (home games) = £2.30 million
At Sixfields......£15 a ticket x 2000 x 23 (home games) = £690k

Take off the £1.2 million "rent" and thats £1.1 million profit from the Ricoh

:thinking about:

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

Rusty Trombone said:
Thanks, so presumably the £4m over 10 years means that after this period you believe £400k per year to be a fair charge?

No then we should be allowed to buy it for the cost of the outstanding mortgage

SkyblueBazza · Dec 7, 2013

dongonzalos said:
No he is saying they will fund the loses over the short term.

What he is not admitting is that this is in order to keep the Ricoh empty to try and get it cheap. Which is the only logical explanation for not taking up the free rent offer.

What he is saying us the long term financial driver is building our own stadium.

What he is not explaining and no one pushes him on. Is how dies that financially compare to signing a long term rent deal.

Also why they don't offer the full cost of this for the Ricoh which will be better than the proposed new stadium and is inside Coventry and would see the club back in 6 months not a year?

...but he has quite clearly not actually said any of the things that you are saying he was saying has he?
Which just goes to prove once more that our public situation is a continuous playground style "he said, she said" one.

Rusty Trombone · Dec 7, 2013

What are we buying?

SkyblueBazza · Dec 7, 2013

magic82ball said:
Well yes, SISU fucked them over, refused to pay rent and moved to Northampton - this all happened months ago. Please keep up.

They were getting £0 for months anyway despite the club playing there.

rondog1973 · Dec 7, 2013

Folks, you can argue the maths till you're sky blue in the face. What is indisputable is that for an organisation supposedly being 'bled dry' by £1.2m rent, they've got money to burn when it comes to Lawyers and litigation.

Grendel · Dec 7, 2013

ccfcway said:
Over paid ?

If anything, compared to this season, we have made too much profit...

At Ricoh..........£10 a ticket x 10,000 x 23 (home games) = £2.30 million
At Sixfields......£15 a ticket x 2000 x 23 (home games) = £690k

Take off the £1.2 million "rent" and thats £1.1 million profit from the Ricoh

:thinking about:

Your not very bright are you? Fact is unless the club owns the stadium or at least the management company it will never, ever be more than at best a struggling Championship club. It will be at a huge disadvantage and your ABC maths expose your ignorance.

Perhaps you should stick to the Portsmout thread -- its more your thing.

magic82ball · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
Sorry bit in your simplistic analysis you said would you charge less if you get £600 a month but they can't if they live in a house no one else wants and the tenant suddenly wakes up to the fact can they? Tenant suddenly offers 1 pence and because Sally is already booked I think they'd except the deal. I know your not the brightest in here but even you can see that can't you? Or is 82 really your IQ?

Grendel, I'm trying to engage in an intellectual debate in the vague hope you are capable of this, If you must resort to point scoring, I'm sure you can do better than the "number in your username is your IQ ha ha" gag - this is about as funny as the ebola virus.

My point which you failed to grasp in my original post is no matter how poorly ACL run their business, how wrong they were to not negotiate the rent when first requested, no matter that they had an enormous vested interest in CCFC, It is SISU who could have ensured the long term stability of the club by negotiating the rent when they were in a true position of strength, when they were taking over the club. They have since tried to manufacture this leverage by holding the club hostage in Northampton.

If you want to accuse ACL of being complicit to our plight that's, fine. In a round about way they are. The only difference being they are not the custodians of our club.

ccfcway · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
Your not very bright are you? Fact is unless the club owns the stadium or at least the management company it will never, ever be more than at best a struggling Championship club. It will be at a huge disadvantage and your ABC maths expose your ignorance.

Perhaps you should stick to the Portsmout thread -- its more your thing.

yer, a struggling championship club

as opposed to a league one club playing 34 miles from home and in more debt that greece

Care to add to the "ABC Maths" to make the Northampton move make sense ?

Sky Blues · Dec 7, 2013

Grendel said:
No then we should be allowed to buy it for the cost of the outstanding mortgage

Do you think the council should write off its £10million equity investment in the stadium?

stupot07 · Dec 7, 2013

Sky Blues said:
Do you think the council should write off its £10million equity investment in the stadium?

Pretty sure the council been fully reimbursed for what they invested in cash terms in the build, when ACL paid the £20m upfront for the 50 year lease.

Sky Blues · Dec 7, 2013

stupot07 said:
Pretty sure the council been fully reimbursed for what they invested in cash terms in the build, when ACL paid the £20m upfront for the 50 year lease.

Sorry Stu, but IIRC that £21million paid off the remaining funding gap from fitting out the Ricoh and did not pay off the £10million council equity investment.

wingy · Dec 7, 2013

stupot07 said:
Pretty sure the council been fully reimbursed for what they invested in cash terms in the build, when ACL paid the £20m upfront for the 50 year lease.

The £21M. was for the shorfall in construction costs +£10m. equity ,I thought the same Stu till someone pointed It out the other day.

stupot07 · Dec 7, 2013

So the £21m paid for the fit out (est £7m in final completion report) and to repay the £10m equity?

wingy · Dec 7, 2013

stupot07 said:
So the £21m paid for the fit out (est £7m in final completion report) and to repay the £10m equity?

No Stu Shortfall on Construction costs £31m. £21M. Lease +£10M. council Equity.

stupot07 · Dec 7, 2013

wingy said:
No Stu Shortfall on Construction costs £31m. £21M. Lease +£10M. council Equity.

Thanks Wingy, now spotted it in the report.

Sky Blues · Dec 7, 2013

stupot07 said:
So the £21m paid for the fit out (est £7m in final completion report) and to repay the £10m equity?

Sorry Stu, I should have double checked the details, the £21m loan taken out by ACL repaid £21m of borrowing taken out by the council to meet the funding gap for the stadium (not fit out costs as I incorrectly recalled). But I was correct that the £21m did not pay off the £10m equity investment. But you'll know that if you're read the completion report: http://moderngov.coventry.gov.uk/Da...08 - Arena Construction Completion Report.pdf

Edit: Which I can see you have while I was posting that!

stupot07 · Dec 7, 2013

Thanks SB.

wingy · Dec 7, 2013

Sky Blues said:
Sorry Stu, I should have double checked the details, the £21m loan taken out by ACL repaid £21m of borrowing taken out by the council to meet the funding gap for the stadium (not fit out costs as I incorrectly recalled). But I was correct that the £21m did not pay off the £10m equity investment. But you'll know that if you're read the completion report: http://moderngov.coventry.gov.uk/Da...08 - Arena Construction Completion Report.pdf

Edit: Which I can see you have while I was posting that!

That reports been well thumbed ,but far more than It ever should have.

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