CCFC can still have the Higgs 50% share ??? (1 Viewer)

Sub · Oct 8, 2014

well if they take the offer to buy half the share it shows they were not being completley truthfull about moving on and building their own stadium, and if they dont take the offer and carry on with the 'we were never offered the chance to buy a share' they will be shown to either have no money or any interest in keeping us at home in Coventry.

either way they are going to be wrong on some of their previous statements
(either way i think we will see what was lies and what was the truth)

lewys33 · Oct 8, 2014

I can't see this being anything but a 100% deal.

KersleyDigs · Oct 8, 2014

A NO BRAINER FOR; JOY "NO BRAINS" SEPPALLA

I expect legally with CCFC Ltd in admin this would be extremly difficult to execute. This will provide SISU with the excuse they need with this unwanted and positive opportunity presented to them.

ACL would also probably LOVE to have the opportunity to tell SISU where to stick any such offer...

Grendel · Oct 8, 2014

albatross said:
i dont think its that simple.

They are not dealing with SISU but offering it to the liquidator of CCFC Ltd a company that is to be wound up. . I would imagine that CCFC Ltd's option is not transferrable but resides / dies with the company.

So how does the liquidator get £2.77M of investment out of a company that has no assists , massive debt, and has not filed accounts. If CCFC ltd is to be rescued then surely it cannot be liquidated and therefore the creditor settlements would have to be re-negotiated. if CCFC Ltd suddenly have a large injection of funds from outside HMRC would be involved and other creditors wanting their slice of the pie.

I for one don't think it can be done in the 30 day wind so as the telegraph says

"The complicated process means, in theory, Coventry City owners Sisu may be able to find a way of securing the charity's shares through CCFC Ltd.However, the liquidator will only be given 30 days to take up the offer.
The first option agreement dates back to 2003 when the Higgs Charity bought the football cub's 50 per cent stake in ACL for £6.5million.
It is understood the liquidation of CCFC Ltd has not yet been fully completed – therefore the option still exists."

So in reality its a theoretical possibility ....... but so are many things

Yes that's the other thing that crossed mind.

Its a rather shameless tactic I think to claim the club could purchase when in reality they cannot.

Moff · Oct 8, 2014

Samo said:
They would still get half the Ricoh for 10m. Not too shabby I'd say.

Lets hope they see sense, and just make the right decision for once

lewys33 · Oct 8, 2014

KersleyDigs said:
A NO BRAINER FOR; JOY "NO BRAINS" SEPPALLA

I expect legally with CCFC Ltd in admin this would be extremly difficult to execute. This will provide SISU with the excuse they need with this unwanted and positive opportunity presented to them

Or does it provide Higgs with the excuse?

sky blue john · Oct 8, 2014

Grendel said:
Yes that's the other thing that crossed mind.

Its a rather shameless tactic I think to claim the club could purchase when in reality they cannot.

Are you making Sisu's excuses for them ?
Shame on you !

Grendel · Oct 8, 2014

lewys33 said:
Or does it provide Higgs with the excuse?

It's spin I'm afraid

Ian1779 · Oct 8, 2014

Do we know what they will definitively get for the £2.77m? Is it 50% of ACL along with 50% of a loan payable to ACL?

Grendel · Oct 8, 2014

sky blue john said:
Are you making Sisu's excuses for them ?

Sisu can't make the purchase only a company currently in the process of liquidation can. Perhaps you can explain how this company with no assets can purchase the shares.

Please answer sensibly

sw88 · Oct 8, 2014

So SISU can get something (a 50% share) for £2.7m that another company has just paid £20m for? If I was a dragon I'd definitely be in! (But I'm not and have probably misunderstood completely)

Grendel · Oct 8, 2014

sw88 said:
So SISU can get something (a 50% share) for £2.7m that another company has just paid £20m for? If I was a dragon I'd definitely be in! (But I'm not and have probably misunderstood completely)

No CCFC ltd a company with no equity can

sky blue john · Oct 8, 2014

Grendel said:
Sisu can't make the purchase only a company currently in the process of liquidation can. Perhaps you can explain how this company with no assets can purchase the shares.

Please answer sensibly

Are you handing in your notice at work today ?

Godiva · Oct 8, 2014

ashbyjan said:
What the Trust have been told (by impeccable sources too) is that the Wasps deal with council is done and dusted, signed and sealed and Wasps now own 50% of ACL and CCC own noe of it but retain the freehold of the building. The two Council officers who were directors of ACL are no longer Directors of ACL. The remaining 50% belongs to the Charity and it is their to keep or to sell. The option to buy remains with CCFC Ltd but the often referred to formula no longer applies. The club can make an offer but if this is rejected by the charity they are then free to sell to whoever they like. It appears that the club has a chance to buy 50% of a stadium and I would have to assume 50% of all of its revenue for under £3m or spend 10 times that building a smaller stadium of its own. Seems like an opportunity we should be urging the club not to miss.

So Higgs can offer their shares to OTIUM/SBS&L for £2.77m?

KersleyDigs · Oct 8, 2014

Grendel said:
Sisu can't make the purchase only a company currently in the process of liquidation can. Perhaps you can explain how this company with no assets can purchase the shares.

Please answer sensibly

Exactly, probably a non-starter. However, if anyone is to wriggle their way around legality and pull of the unthinkable it's SISU. Just depends if they want to...

Sub · Oct 8, 2014

KersleyDigs said:
Exactly, probably a non-starter. However, if anyone is to wriggle their way around legality and pull of the unthinkable it's SISU. Just depends if they want to...

Dont forget they batter people in court

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 8, 2014

Simon/Jan, Are either the CT or SBT talking to the Club about this, this is chance to secure a future at the home of CCFC, a stadium that was built for this Football Club, it can't be missed!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skyblueweeman · Oct 8, 2014

I'd be uber-surprised if they try and buy the 50% share. As a couple have pointed out, legally, it's probably an issue.

The way our script is written, SISU won't offer anything as they're still pursuing a new stadium.

A question to the likes of RobS/AshbyJan/SimonG - Is there anyway of getting something from JS/TF about a new stadium? Their hand has kind of been forced now if they were harbouring silent desires to get the Ricoh so we need to start pressing them to share something about any new stadium they're planning to give us something to cling on to (and not something a 17yr old IT apprentice has knocked up on their lunch break).

WM

mattylad · Oct 8, 2014

Grendel said:
Sisu can't make the purchase only a company currently in the process of liquidation can. Perhaps you can explain how this company with no assets can purchase the shares.

Please answer sensibly

It is within the liquidators powers to revisit the process if a bid were to come in to buy CCFC Ltd however as they are a non trading entity as has been discussed here many times the legality of what they would be buying other than the non trading company would be of question. Potentially once CCFC ltd had the 50% they could then sell the share. Its murky and messy but when is it not where SISU are concerned??

Otis · Oct 8, 2014

Skyblueweeman said:
I'd be uber-surprised if they try and buy the 50% share. As a couple have pointed out, legally, it's probably an issue.

The way our script is written, SISU won't offer anything as they're still pursuing a new stadium.

A question to the likes of RobS/AshbyJan/SimonG - Is there anyway of getting something from JS/TF about a new stadium? Their hand has kind of been forced now if they were harbouring silent desires to get the Ricoh so we need to start pressing them to share something about any new stadium they're planning to give us something to cling on to (and not something a 17yr old IT apprentice has knocked up on their lunch break).

WM

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mattylad · Oct 8, 2014

Grendel said:
Sisu can't make the purchase only a company currently in the process of liquidation can. Perhaps you can explain how this company with no assets can purchase the shares.

Please answer sensibly

It is within the liquidators powers to revisit the process if a bid were to come in to buy CCFC Ltd however as they are a non trading entity as has been discussed here many times the legality of what they would be buying other than the non trading company would be of question. Potentially once CCFC ltd had the 50% they could then sell the share. Its murky and messy but when is it not where SISU are concerned??

Edit to say once a stay of liquidation is granted then any outstanding accounts and annual returns must be filed, as for any other live and active company otherwise companies house could still strike them off.

ashbyjan · Oct 8, 2014

Godiva said:
So Higgs can offer their shares to OTIUM/SBS&L for £2.77m?

As it was explained to me CCFC Ltd have the first option to make a bid after that the Charity is free to sell to whoever it would like to. From what Simon has said (and the Trust haven't been told this but have no reason to believe its not correct) if CCFC Ltd do not take up their option within 30 days then a sale has been agreed with Wasps. We are trying to get some financial advice as to the question of a company in liquidation taking up such an option. I am sure SISU must know people who have expertise in finance and the law and personally I would have thought that this is an opportunity they would be moving heaven and earth to exercise if they have the best interests on CCFC at heart

duffer · Oct 8, 2014

Godiva said:
So Higgs can offer their shares to OTIUM/SBS&L for £2.77m?

That's not quite what Simon's article says, he writes "charity bosses will offer the liquidator of CCFC Ltd first option".

So the only way to get the share would be through CCFC Ltd. I have no idea how this could work. Given Limited hasn't been liquidated then there must be some scope for reactivation and transfer, I presume. Where's the switch for the searchlight with "OSB" written on it?!

The even better news is that the Council have presumably already extended the leasehold to 250 years, and possibly already transferred liability for the £14m loan onto Wasps. It would be funny if subsequent the franchise was stung (ouch) with only 50% of the ownership but 100% of the liability. I don't think this was what Wasps had in mind when the were talking about working in partnership with CCFC.

I'm a bad man I know, but the thought of Wasps being mugged by CCFC (even under SISU) rather cheers me up. Our devious, slimy owners are better than your devious slimy owners. Ha!

albatross · Oct 8, 2014

So a stay of liquidation, filing of outstanding accounts and returns, £2.77m of inward investment, settlement with the current creditors or /and offering CCFC Ltd to the highest bidder (Administrator has the requirement to get as much as is possible for the creditors) then a deal to be struck with Higgs on the other side. All within 30 Days?

Rusty Trombone · Oct 8, 2014

duffer said:
That's not quite what Simon's article says, he writes "charity bosses will offer the liquidator of CCFC Ltd first option".

So the only way to get the share would be through CCFC Ltd. I have no idea how this could work. Given Limited hasn't been liquidated then there must be some scope for reactivation and transfer, I presume. Where's the switch for the searchlight with "OSB" written on it?!

The even better news is that the Council have presumably already extended the leasehold to 250 years, and possibly already transferred liability for the £14m loan onto Wasps. It would we be funny if subsequent the franchise was stung (ouch) with only 50% of the ownership but 100% of the liability. I don't think this was what Wasps had in mind when the were talking about working in partnership with CCFC.

I'm a bad man I know, but the thought of Wasps being mugged by CCFC (even under SISU) rather cheers me up. Our devious, slimy owners are better than your devious slimy owners. Ha!

They have bought 50% of ACL, ACL owe the money, whoever holds the other 50% shares the debt, currently this is still Higgs.

chiefdave · Oct 8, 2014

For all we know this is the reason for the delay in liquidation. Higgs have been very silent so far, something going on behind the scenes?

mattylad · Oct 8, 2014

duffer said:
That's not quite what Simon's article says, he writes "charity bosses will offer the liquidator of CCFC Ltd first option".

So the only way to get the share would be through CCFC Ltd. I have no idea how this could work. Given Limited hasn't been liquidated then there must be some scope for reactivation and transfer, I presume. Where's the switch for the searchlight with "OSB" written on it?!

The even better news is that the Council have presumably already extended the leasehold to 250 years, and possibly already transferred liability for the £14m loan onto Wasps. It would be funny if subsequent the franchise was stung (ouch) with only 50% of the ownership but 100% of the liability. I don't think this was what Wasps had in mind when the were talking about working in partnership with CCFC.

I'm a bad man I know, but the thought of Wasps being mugged by CCFC (even under SISU) rather cheers me up. Our devious, slimy owners are better than your devious slimy owners. Ha!

Can I have your credit card and pin number ointlaugh:

Rusty Trombone · Oct 8, 2014

Grendel said:
It's spin I'm afraid

On reflection, I think you're right G. I think it would cost too much for SISU to get the old company up and running, and the timescale is too short. Still a slight, slight, chance it could happen.

sky blue john · Oct 8, 2014

The money is peanuts in the scheme of things. It all depends on if Sisu want to make this happen for CCFC !!
I recommend chanting and banners at the next match...

" Buy the Higgs "
" Buy the Higgs"

duffer · Oct 8, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
They have bought 50% of ACL, ACL owe the money, whoever holds the other 50% shares the debt, currently this is still Higgs.

Not being funny, but where exactly does it say that?

Everything I've read regarding this deal has either been vague or as today's revelation turned out wrong.

What's been said that I can recall is that Wasps have taken on the mortgage (less £1m, possibly) - have they done that through ACL, or via another mechanism? I'm not saying I'm right, but there's not much evidence I've seen to back up your opinion either.

duffer · Oct 8, 2014

mattylad said:
Can I have your credit card and pin number ointlaugh:

I'm sure there's a point you're trying to make here, but it escapes me. If you can send over your bank account details though, I'll be happy to oblige.

Edit: Scratch that. I've got it. The problem is that you can't read properly and you think I've said that this has happened rather than said I'd find it funny if it had happened. What you need to do is slow down a bit and let your mouth catch up with your eyes - that's the problem you have if your lips move when you're reading.

Godiva · Oct 8, 2014

ashbyjan said:
As it was explained to me CCFC Ltd have the first option to make a bid after that the Charity is free to sell to whoever it would like to. From what Simon has said (and the Trust haven't been told this but have no reason to believe its not correct) if CCFC Ltd do not take up their option within 30 days then a sale has been agreed with Wasps. We are trying to get some financial advice as to the question of a company in liquidation taking up such an option. I am sure SISU must know people who have expertise in finance and the law and personally I would have thought that this is an opportunity they would be moving heaven and earth to exercise if they have the best interests on CCFC at heart

But surely, if they are free to sell to anybody, why not sell directly to SBS&L or Otium?

OyJimmy · Oct 8, 2014

Of course the administrator could offer to buy the Higgs share on behalf of SISU or WASPS..... He's not tied to either and will be looking to recover as much cash as possible for creditors.

Godiva · Oct 8, 2014

sky blue john said:
The money is peanuts in the scheme of things. It all depends on if Sisu want to make this happen for CCFC !!
I recommend chanting and banners at the next match...

" Buy the Higgs "
" Buy the Higgs"

I don't think Higgs is for sale.

Ian1779 · Oct 8, 2014

So simply we need to know if SISU/OTIUM can buy this share or is this just a Weber Shandiwckesque spin story to negate the bad press over the Wasps deal.

CCFC can still have the Higgs 50% share ??? (1 Viewer)

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