Cancel the boycott (1 Viewer)

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
"Not in my name" is the phrase that I think the ring leader in this witch hunt used. It's a classic if you can't attack the point attack the man.

There is no ring leader. There is no witch hunt. A leading Sky Blue campaigner has been found to have racist views. It is something that should be condemned by all. Racism isn't something that should be excused simply because he's "one of ours", it should be universally condemned by all those who find these kind of views unacceptable.

I find it quite surprising how many people are willing to forgive and forget simply because "it's Steve". If this was Tim Fisher or Les Reid or someone from the SCG you didn't like then I imagine you'd have a different attitude.

I was friends with someone since I met him in school in 78. We went to matches all over the country forever, got on great. Then ten years or so ago he started telling me how great the BNP were and how immigration was spiralling out of control and that "they" were taking jobs of us Brits, etc. Not seen him for years, despite being a good friend for three decades, I wasn't about to excuse his views.

Racism is abhorrent and so are racists. We should not excuse their views.

shmmeee · Oct 20, 2016

Woah, just catching up on this thread. Can anyone give a breakdown of what he retweeted?

Are we talking Britain First "give grannies money not immigrants" or Britain First "ban halal meat, and the burka and kick all Muslims out"?

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

shmmeee said:
Woah, just catching up on this thread. Can anyone give a breakdown of what he retweeted?

Are we talking Britain First "give grannies money not immigrants" or Britain First "ban halal meat, and the burka and kick all Muslims out"?

The latter. Lots of anti-islamic stuff plus stuff from Pegida, the German far right group. The group who complained non-white kids were pictured on Kinder bars.

theferret · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
There is no ring leader. There is no witch hunt. A leading Sky Blue campaigner has been found to have racist views. It is something that should be condemned by all. Racism isn't something that should be excused simply because he's "one of ours", it should be universally condemned by all those who do not hold similar views.

I find it quite surprising how many people are willing to forgive and forget simply because "it's Steve". If this was Tim Fisher or Les Reid or someone from the SCG you didn't like then I imagine you'd have a different attitude.

I was friends with someone since I met him in school in 78. We went to matches all over the country forever, got on great. Then ten years or so ago he started telling me how great the BNP were and how immigration was spiralling out of control and that "they" were taking jobs of us Brits, etc. Not seen him for years, despite being a good friend for three decades, I wasn't about to excuse his views.

Racism is abhorrent and so are racists. We should not excuse their views.

I think you may be taking a bit of a leap there. Nobody is seeking to excuse racism, and I've never been comfortable with the use of the word 'racist' as a catch-all term for people who have views that are considered questionable.

From what I know, and I haven't seen the retweets in question, they were in specific reference to Islam. You're perfectly entitled to a view on that, but Islam is not a race, it is an ideology and in its extreme form can be itself pretty abhorrent. If someone condemns FGM, it is a legitimate criticsm of a warped interpretation of an ideology - a view that can be held by white people, and is not indicative of racism.

While legitimate points have been made about possible negative exposure for the campaign, I'm not sure we should sink to the level of a kangaroo court and start throwing around terms like racist and neo-Nazi, not sure that is helpful and/or correct in this instance.

shmmeee · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
The latter. Lots of anti-islamic stuff plus stuff from Pegida, the German far right group. The group who complained non-white kids were pictured on Kinder bars.

Cheers. (was gonna like but that would look weird)

Shame, always seemed like a decent bloke when I've met him. That's politics though, can't be involved with that kind of record.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

theferret said:
I think you may be taking a bit of a leap there. Nobody is seeking to excuse racism, and I've never been comfortable with the use of the word 'racist' as a catch-all term for people who have views that are considered questionable.

From what I know, and I haven't seen the retweets in question, they were in specific reference to Islam. You're perfectly entitled to a view on that, but Islam is not a race, it is an ideology and in its extreme form can be itself pretty abhorrent. If someone condemns FGM, it is a legitimate criticsm of a warped interpretation of an ideology - a view that can be held by white people, and is not indicative of racism.

While legitimate points have been made about possible negative exposure for the campaign, I'm not sure we should sink to the level of a kangaroo court and start throwing around terms like racist and neo-Nazi, not sure that is helpful and/or correct in this instance.

No, you didn't see the retweets in question. It wasn't just anti-islam, it was other racist stuff.

You excuse him all you like, I'm sure you'll get a few high-fives for it. Not me.

covcity4life · Oct 20, 2016

just read the trust website, lol going past cherrytree to pick up those that cannot walk!

or going past pub to pick up pissheads to chant sisu out and be aggressive more like

theferret · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
No, you didn't see the retweets in question. It wasn't just anti-islam, it was other racist stuff.

You excuse him all you like, I'm sure you'll get a few high-fives for it. Not me.

Not excusing anything, and I'm not sure what the high-fives comment is all about.

Just trying to take a considered view, that's all.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

theferret said:
Not excusing anything, and I'm not sure what the high-fives comment is all about.

Just trying to take a considered view, that's all.

You are. "It's Steve, he's OK". Retweeting anti-Islamic bullshit is fine because "it's an ideology" .

skybluetony176 · Oct 20, 2016

Esoterica said:
Is it fuck. It's an indication you're a white male who isn't in any way affected or impacted by Steve's views. If you had ever been subjected to abuse caused by ignorance regarding the colour of your skin then you would understand why marching alongside a leader publically promoting such views transcends a protest about a football team. No-one is saying the march should stop or the fight against SISU should stop. We need to unify the fanbase - a leader of the group trying to do that whilst sharing those views has immediately failed at that task.

That's a pretty big assumption. I may be white but as a man with an English accent from a Northern Irish protestant family whose spent lots of time in Northern Ireland since a child I can assure you that the next time I get called a black bastard won't be the first and most likely won't be the last. If there's people present at the march or involved in organising it who are of catholic Irish background and may have at some point called a member of the protestant faith a black bastard does that change the cause of this march? I won't be wearing a sash on this march, does that still make it an orange march?

Esoterica · Oct 20, 2016

covcity4life said:
just read the trust website, lol going past cherrytree to pick up those that cannot walk!

or going past pub to pick up pissheads to chant sisu out and be aggressive more like

I know you're tongue in cheek, but can't knock them for this - it's great they are thinking about and including those less able than others but still want to protest.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Oct 20, 2016

My God this thread has descended into the usual political crap that has very little to do with what the thread was about in the first place.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
My God this thread has descended into the usual political crap that has very little to do with what the thread was about in the first place.

And whose fault is that? Not anyone on this thread, that's for sure.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 20, 2016

covcity4life said:
just read the trust website, lol going past cherrytree to pick up those that cannot walk!

or going past pub to pick up pissheads to chant sisu out and be aggressive more like

Oh you mean like the lady in her 80s who said I can't walk far is it ok if I join the march at Tesco lights she's been going since she was a young girl and she's asking me if its alright. Then there are disabled and other older fans who are unsteady on their feet over a distance who the trust are arranging to pick up like they have in the other marches. But you,you have to put one of your stupid posts on here what were you doing laughing to yourself whilst posting it.

lamtara2006 · Oct 20, 2016

AndreasB said:
Your just upset your mate has been found out . Wish you were half as upset at the content he posts.

As for "all they get is abuse" - Retweeting Tommy Robinson sort of asks for it. Dont see Jan or Moz or any of the others in SBT posting that shite.

But I'm sure that you will be hiding behind your keyboard, trying your hardest to find mud you can sling at others who take a stand against the owners and want a better future for Coventry City.

Esoterica · Oct 20, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
That's a pretty big assumption. I may be white but as a man with an English accent from a Northern Irish protestant family whose spent lots of time in Northern Ireland since a child I can assure you that the next time I get called a black bastard won't be the first and most likely won't be the last. If there's people present at the march or involved in organising it who are of catholic Irish background and may have at some point called a member of the protestant faith a black bastard does that change the cause of this march? I won't be wearing a sash on this march, does that still make it an orange march?

The march's purpose is not in question, nor are the reasons for the particpants choosing to march. We're talking about the leader of the group organising the protest. And if he'd been posting things correlating with your own negative experiences, I'd hope you could understand why this would make people in your shoes uncomfortable with attending. And if that scenario was the case and your skin is still thick enough and your love of CCFC great enough to put that to one side, then I salute your strength, but that will put you in the minority of those affected and doesn't justify the continuation of that person in the leadership role as correct.

Nick · Oct 20, 2016

Esoterica said:
I know you're tongue in cheek, but can't knock them for this - it's great they are thinking about and including those less able than others but still want to protest.

Exactly, I'm hardly the boycott etc biggest fan but if disabled people or the elderly who can't walk very far want to join in then they should be catered for.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
But I'm sure that you will be hiding behind your keyboard, trying your hardest to find mud you can sling at others who take a stand against the owners and want a better future for Coventry City.

I think the moral of the tale is, if you put yourself in the spotlight make sure you don't have anything that can be used against you.

You show the classic behaviour of blaming the person who pointed out the racist views rather than the racist himself. You can fool some, but not all.

This is a totally separate issue and nothing to do with SISU or the future of Coventry City.

lamtara2006 · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
I think the moral of the tale is, if you put yourself in the spotlight make sure you don't have anything that can be used against you.

You show the classic behaviour of blaming the person who pointed out the racist views rather than the racist himself. You can fool some, but not all.

This is a totally separate issue and nothing to do with SISU or the future of Coventry City.

My comment is about motivation of the person concerned. That had nothing to do with "racism" and everything to do with an attempt to undermine the campaign. By a person who has not got the spine to identify him or herself with a personal attack.

martcov · Oct 20, 2016

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
My God this thread has descended into the usual political crap that has very little to do with what the thread was about in the first place.

I disagree. The usual political crap is confined to SISU, CCFC, CCC etc.. We're in a different league here. Tommy Robinson, Pegida, EDL, Britain First and the rest. Our leader ( German translation = Führer ;-) ) has been outed by his own Twitter account at an extremely sensitive time.

Whether you share his views or not, they are open to public criticism - also by the opposition ( SISU ).

Some people are trying to avoid the issue, but there is no avoidance. Steve has put himself to the front, but hasn't covered his arse - as they say. This does not help the cause.

That is most relevant issue with regards to our protests and this thread.

Possible headline = ' Twitter shitstorm mars Sky Blues protest'. Followed by airing of Steve's dirty washing.

You will never ever find anything like this about Joy or Tim. They have enough savvy to keep the internet as clean as possible when you are looking for dirt on them.

That is both prudent and professional. We could learn from our opponents.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
My comment is about motivation of the person concerned. That had nothing to do with "racism" and everything to do with an attempt to undermine the campaign. By a person who has not got the spine to identify him or herself with a personal attack.

Why is it an attempt to undermine the campaign? Do you think Steve's views are right? Do you think Steve's views should be ignored because of who he is? As for motivation, I would have thought the majority of us would be motivated to expose racism from whomever it concerned.

Even, "good old Steve".

Don't agree with you, sorry.

AndreasB · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
But I'm sure that you will be hiding behind your keyboard, trying your hardest to find mud you can sling at others who take a stand against the owners and want a better future for Coventry City.

I would post some of his stuff on here but Nick (correctly) doesn't want it on the forum.

Call me old fashioned but I would just rather those "who take a stand against the owners" didn't accuse all muslims of being peodophiles .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
That's a pretty big assumption. I may be white but as a man with an English accent from a Northern Irish protestant family whose spent lots of time in Northern Ireland since a child I can assure you that the next time I get called a black bastard won't be the first and most likely won't be the last. If there's people present at the march or involved in organising it who are of catholic Irish background and may have at some point called a member of the protestant faith a black bastard does that change the cause of this march? I won't be wearing a sash on this march, does that still make it an orange march?

no it doesn't. but if your social media was full of stuff relating to certain loyalist groups, or if the social media of the person calling you a black bastard was full of stuff related to Irish republican paramilitaries then I would suggest that attending the march would be fine, but you wouldn't want either of you leading it and giving those opposed to it a chance to sling shit at you.

martcov · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
My comment is about motivation of the person concerned. That had nothing to do with "racism" and everything to do with an attempt to undermine the campaign. By a person who has not got the spine to identify him or herself with a personal attack.

Bollocks. Is it better to let Steve carry on and maybe at the right/ wrong time be publically discredited thus damaging the cause, or to point out the danger and hope that he has the sense to prevent this happening?

Why do you want him/her to identify his/herself publically? I would think with the groups named in the twitter saga, he/she would be better off anonymous.

clint van damme · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
My comment is about motivation of the person concerned. That had nothing to do with "racism" and everything to do with an attempt to undermine the campaign. By a person who has not got the spine to identify him or herself with a personal attack.

and if that is the case they've been presented with an open goal. Imagine what someone with a bit of nous and the right contacts could do with this information.

All those people, some high profile, who signed the petition, who mentioned us in the media, what do you think they'll do?
Do you think they'll ignore it or do you think they'll ensure they never mention our plight again?

lamtara2006 · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
Why is it an attempt to undermine the campaign? Do you think Steve's views are right? Do you think Steve's views should be ignored because of who he is? As for motivation, I would have thought the majority of us would be motivated to expose racism from whomever it concerned.

Even, "good old Steve".

Don't agree with you, sorry.

Well it won't be the first time and not the last that we've disagreed ... and it hasn't me worried yet.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
Well it won't be the first time and not the last that we've disagreed ... and it hasn't me worried yet.

So, do you think Steve's views are right? Do you think they should be ignored?

martcov · Oct 20, 2016

AndreasB said:
I would post some of his stuff on here but Nick (correctly) doesn't want it on the forum.

Call me old fashioned but I would just rather those "who take a stand against the owners" didn't accuse all muslims of being peodophiles .

Send me a pm - I promise not to post it.

lamtara2006 · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
So, do you think Steve's views are right? Do you think they should be ignored?

You can see what I think earlier in the thread if you're that bothered.

Nick · Oct 20, 2016

martcov said:
I disagree. The usual political crap is confined to SISU, CCFC, CCC etc.. We're in a different league here. Tommy Robinson, Pegida, EDL, Britain First and the rest. Our leader ( German translation = Führer ;-) ) has been outed by his own Twitter account at an extremely sensitive time.

Whether you share his views or not, they are open to public criticism - also by the opposition ( SISU ).

Some people are trying to avoid the issue, but there is no avoidance. Steve has put himself to the front, but hasn't covered his arse - as they say. This does not help the cause.

That is most relevant issue with regards to our protests and this thread.

Possible headline = ' Twitter shitstorm mars Sky Blues protest'. Followed by airing of Steve's dirty washing.

You will never ever find anything like this about Joy or Tim. They have enough savvy to keep the internet as clean as possible when you are looking for dirt on them.

That is both prudent and professional. We could learn from our opponents.

I'd like to think it wouldn't get as far as a news paper headline with Steve's washing on it though, even though I don't agree with the washing.

I don't agree with most of the methods and the protests but wouldn't want to see that happen to them.

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

lamtara2006 said:
You can see what I think earlier in the thread if your that bothered.

No, not really. I have a good idea.

lamtara2006 · Oct 20, 2016

torchomatic said:
No, not really. I have a good idea.

Well there's a first time for everything!

skybluetony176 · Oct 20, 2016

Esoterica said:
The march's purpose is not in question, nor are the reasons for the particpants choosing to march. We're talking about the leader of the group organising the protest. And if he'd been posting things correlating with your own negative experiences, I'd hope you could understand why this would make people in your shoes uncomfortable with attending. And if that scenario was the case and your skin is still thick enough and your love of CCFC great enough to put that to one side, then I salute your strength, but that will put you in the minority of those affected and doesn't justify the continuation of that person in the leadership role as correct.

So if I organised it would it be an orange march?

torchomatic · Oct 20, 2016

Nick said:
I'd like to think it wouldn't get as far as a news paper headline with Steve's washing on it though, even though I don't agree with the washing.

I don't agree with most of the methods and the protests but wouldn't want to see that happen to them.

I agree. I think he needs to step down though. If he doesn't then he should stop using the Jimmy Hill name for his organisation, I don't think that is appropriate.

cov soul · Oct 20, 2016

matesx said:
The team need all the backing we can give them on Saturday.

It's not like SISU will give a shit anyway.

don't be silly .but no.

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