Can it get any worse? (2 Viewers)

Gaz · May 6, 2012

Not having a go here Otis or anything, but if we have had a losing mentality for many many years, then you are just adding to it by shooting down any optimism.

If we as fans arn't going to try and be positive for next season. Then how can we expect the club and players to ?

One of the reasons teams like Southampton & Norwich did so well after dropping down to league one, was proberly because they all pulled in the same direction and got behind the club.

Otis said:
Just don't accept this argument, Paxman.

Reason?

1. Sisu sell. Sisu have sold and have consistently sold. they have had to sell to try and fend off debts. We have no reason to believe they will do any different this season.

2. Estimation is that dropping a division costs around 4m in lost revenue to a club. That would therefore point to us selling probably more aggressively than we ever have done before.

3. Think most agree we need about 8 players. Can anyone see Sisu shelling out for 8 players? Only hope there is loans and loans where the parent club will be paying the majority of the wage.

4. We have no reason to believe that we would go to the likes of Crawley and win. City traditionally have struggled on many, many occasions against lower league opposition.

5. Where is this tinkering finance? We're going to bring players in I take it like we did at the start of last season? Err ..... 2 keepers wasn't it?

6. We have a losing mentality. We have had a losing mentality since god knows when. It's pretty much all we know. Why on earth would we think we will drop a division and suddenly have a winning mentality? No reason at all to suggest this.

7. Think it was Stupot who said that Sheff Weds and a few other teams had brought in something like 8-10 players lat season to strengthen. Why would anyone think we are going to strengthen? Surely the only thing that is going to happen is that if anything we will weaken the squad, not strengthen it. Best players for us last season? Nimely? Gone. Norwood? Gone. Cranie? Almost certainly gone. Keogh? Quite likely to be gone. Would say they were probably our best 4 players last season. Our squad looks like it is going to be weaker.

8. Kids and strength. A lot of strong physical teams in League One. Bigi? Not strong enough. Conor Thomas? Not strong enough. Clarke? Possibly not big enough or strong enough, though I do rate him highly. Baker? Gets knocked off the ball far too easily, but should be okay in League One due to his other attributes. Bell? Lacks the appetite for a fight. Sheff? The same. Deegan? Injury prone. Wood? Injury prone. McPake? injury prone. Platt? Injury prone and unable to play game in game out. For me there's only McDonald who I believe should excel at this level. The kids will still be learning and it is probably another season too soon for most of them.

As I say, we have had a losing mentality for many many years now and have been in the doldrums and feeling sorry for ourselves for an absolute age. Just can't figure out where this new found optimism is going to come from with club where the fans distrust the board and owners and where there are severe financial problems and doubts about the club's very future. Ohh and we are under a transfer embargo and haven't filed our accounts or paid the rent for 2 months! It's been all doom and gloom off the field to go with the doom and gloom on the field.

Don't need to look outside the box. Just need to be a realist.

Our only hope this season is in the loan system with generous parent clubs letting us have good players on the cheap.

Otis · May 6, 2012

gaz said:
Not having a go here Otis or anything, but if we have had a losing mentality for many many years, then you are just adding to it by shooting down any optimism.

If we as fans arn't going to try and be positive for next season. Then how can we expect the club and players to ?

One of the reasons teams like Southampton & Norwich did so well after dropping down to league one, was proberly because they all pulled in the same direction and got behind the club.

Well, agree with that, but having owners everyone seems to want to get rid off, being in a transfer embargo, not filing the accounts and not paying the rent for 2 months isn't exactly us all pulling in the same direction is it.

Gaz · May 6, 2012

Otis said:
Well, agree with that, but having owners everyone seems to want to get rid off, being in a transfer embargo, not filing the accounts and not paying the rent for 2 months isn't exactly us all pulling in the same direction is it.

What I'm getting at Otis is that all of that is out of our controll.
I agree with you completely that we have had a losing mentality for many many years, and this is why we should try and change it rather than squash any optimism.
All we can do is try and stay positive and get up the Ricoh and support our team.

Like I say, I'm not having a go, but your adding to the problem without knowing it.

Otis · May 6, 2012

Maybe I am.

Just where my head's at at the moment. We make some shrewd signings and that will all change.

torchomatic · May 6, 2012

As Captain Haddock said, ''realist''is just another word for ''quitter''.

dongonzalos · May 6, 2012

stupot07 said:
Good post Otis, point 3, Charlton and the two sheffield clubs have actually signed close to 20 players this season, with a mixture of permanent signings and loans.

Charlton - 18 permanent signings, 1 loan signing (total 19 signings)

Sheffield Wed - 10 permanent signings, 13 loan signings (total 23 signings)

Sheffield United - 9 permanent signings, 8 loan signing (total 17 signings)

Southampton and Norwich did the same. Leeds are skint according to ken Bates. However they are about to release 11 players and Warnock has been told he can replace each One

Macca · May 6, 2012

I m with Otis. I m far too long on the tooth to set myself up for a successful season when we can hardly pay for a newspaper! I m looking forward to the season to visit some new grounds but certainly not the football

Otis · May 6, 2012

Well that's the way I see it. From a supporter's perspective it will be a load of new and interesting away trips to grounds they've never been to before.

From the on the field perspective though, and hate to keep banging on about it, but where is the money going to come from to strengthen the team? It bloody does need strengthening for sure and we cannot go into another season on the back of the kids.

Otis · May 6, 2012

torchomatic said:
As Captain Haddock said, ''realist''is just another word for ''quitter''.

You do know he's not real don't you? You do know also that his character is a bit of a buffoon too I take it?

Paxman II · May 6, 2012

We don't need so many permanent signings though do we? I really don't think we will lose that much of our squad! And I'm being realistic.
Already is reported the embargo is lifted Otis so you need to chill slightly and maybe just maybe see through the dark side you always side with and see positives coming soon. SISU have been awful but they have little choice now but to put some money in the pot and back the squad.

You are far too ready to dis and believe the rhetoric of 3rd party opinions.

I still say this is a great 'opportunity' to move forward at a level we will somewhat dominate even given our circumstances.

Lets agree to disagree if you like but in 12 months I bet I'm more right than your pessimism.
Like I was saying really study the teams in that league with us.....most of my optimism comes from that. But I'm glad you have nailed you opinion to the mast and you will not come back and start sitting on the fence again from one week to another now we know you think it can only be more disaster right? Sorry old chap not with you on this one.

Otis · May 6, 2012

The embargo is not lifted.

Where did you get that info from? From the thread on here that was about last years embargo?

And I haven't nailed my colours to the mast Paxman either. I am stating how I feel now and based on the fact that last season we brought just 2 keepers in and sold our best players and that we are in an even worse financial state this year.

I quite clearly stated that if we make some shrewd signings I will completely change my mind. It's not cast in stone. At the moment though it''s shit and it looks like it is only going to get shittier!

You have completely the wrong end of the stick. You expect me to be upbeat when we've had the worst season in living memory, the accounts aren't filed, there's an embargo and we haven't paid the rent for 2 months and apparently don't have any money to buy players?

Paxman II · May 6, 2012

I'm not like you Otis I'm much more positive about how one should deal with the cards you have and I always see a way forward.

Again you are making all you assumptions based on what has happened and not about what may lie ahead. But that's OK as you say you can change your mind again...

It's seems to me that it's more popular to dis everything at the club (before it happens) rather than suggest a positive at the club (before it happens) and the whole thing just gets tedious.

I fully accept we are in a mess but that does not mean we are heading for further disaster.

Lets hope SISU stay because it's all we have. It's clear that they will need to find some cash and it's clearer to me than others on here we will not be selling most of our squad. Who will have them? There is a few but most will remain and it's that core element I truly beleive will have a very good season in league 1.
there I've said it...I'm not going to waiver when news changes...unless we are liquidated!

Grendel · May 6, 2012

I'm with you on one thing paxman and that is sisu continue to fund this basket case of a club. I hope they don't read some of the tripe on here as for sure no one else cares.

Otis · May 6, 2012

I am not dissing the club though, Paxman and that's the point. I am stating facts.

1. We are in an embargo

2. We haven't filed our accounts

3. We haven't paid the rent for 2 months.

4. Last season we only brought in 2 keepers.

5. Last season we sold our best players.

6. Sisu have consistently sold players since their arrival.

Where is the assumption there? Can only deal with the here and now and it is the here and now that I am talking about.

i always try and be reasoned and rational in my arguments and I think that is the right and proper thing to do. Start of last season I said we would struggle. Christmas I said we were down. When we got out of the bottom 3 and were 1 point clear of Bristol I said we would stay up. That's not nailing colours to the mast that is being reflective in my thinking.

We sign good players I will totally change my mind.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 6, 2012

Paxman II said:
We don't need so many permanent signings though do we? I really don't think we will lose that much of our squad! And I'm being realistic.
Already is reported the embargo is lifted Otis so you need to chill slightly and maybe just maybe see through the dark side you always side with and see positives coming soon. SISU have been awful but they have little choice now but to put some money in the pot and back the squad.

You are far too ready to dis and believe the rhetoric of 3rd party opinions.

I still say this is a great 'opportunity' to move forward at a level we will somewhat dominate even given our circumstances.

Lets agree to disagree if you like but in 12 months I bet I'm more right than your pessimism.
Like I was saying really study the teams in that league with us.....most of my optimism comes from that. But I'm glad you have nailed you opinion to the mast and you will not come back and start sitting on the fence again from one week to another now we know you think it can only be more disaster right? Sorry old chap not with you on this one.

Wholly disagree with you on your assessment of the squad Paxman. The chief reason we've been relegated is squarely because our squad was too small and too youth-dependent. Even if departures are kept to a handful of players, that takes even more out of a squad that was already insufficient. I will see positives when things are *done* rather than *said*-and by positives, that means holding onto the bulk of our players and adding a healthy number on top so we have a squad with depth and quality. SISU's deft move to get the ARVO debenture against the club speaks volumes about their intent for this club, not e-mailed interviews with the Telegraph or a conveniently scheduled forum with Fisher.
I simply hold no optimism for this club with these vermin at the helm and their actions give me no reason to suggest their motives have suddenly changed. If next May we're celebrating a League and JPT double with Seppala on the top of a double decker victory parade bus, then I will concede I was wrong to question them. As it is, she is still yet to make a public appearance before the supporters.

Paxman II · May 6, 2012

I don't disagree with you Otis on all the above.

The caveat if you will is that you are using it as a method going forward stating almost that you don't expect anything to change. While you may be right I'm more of the opinion that SISU have met their corner head on and have now little choice but to move forward more positively.
It could easily be argued in a similar way to you that SISU have made big strides in cleaning up all the financial mess they put us in and have come close to balancing the books (new accounts will show a large improvement) I know this 'austerity' has not been great while trying to get control of that but it will give SISU a better position to go forward.

I'm more confident the accounts will be filed and why wouldn't they be, embargo lifted and the rent will be paid. (Only with held as a means to open talks) They know they can't sell the best players for ever. As I said who would have our so called 'best players' currently?

I think talks are crucial Otis as to what level of new cash they will find to put in for this season. If there are no 'promissory' notes then it will be only enough to keep us going I suspect. If there is light in the negotiations for rent reductions, Ricoh income streams sharing - even if in the future then they will comit a little stronger and have something more 'concrete' to develop the club on and make salable asap so we can all get rid!

Sky Blue Kid · May 6, 2012

Hadenough said:
stop moaning a buy a season ticket or your not a real fan

I AM a real fan but will choose to buy my season ticket when "I WANT TO" and not when someone tells me to!
I've followed the "City" since the early 60s', but this last season I've refused to go to home games and have missed only one away game. I WILL NOT line SISUs' pockets anymore.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 6, 2012

Paxman II said:
I don't disagree with you Otis on all the above.

The caveat if you will is that you are using it as a method going forward stating almost that you don't expect anything to change. While you may be right I'm more of the opinion that SISU have met their corner head on and have now little choice but to move forward more positively.
It could easily be argued in a similar way to you that SISU have made big strides in cleaning up all the financial mess they put us in and have come close to balancing the books (new accounts will show a large improvement) I know this 'austerity' has not been great while trying to get control of that but it will give SISU a better position to go forward.

I'm more confident the accounts will be filed and why wouldn't they be, embargo lifted and the rent will be paid. (Only with held as a means to open talks) They know they can't sell the best players for ever. As I said who would have our so called 'best players' currently?

I think talks are crucial Otis as to what level of new cash they will find to put in for this season. If there are no 'promissory' notes then it will be only enough to keep us going I suspect. If there is light in the negotiations for rent reductions, Ricoh income streams sharing - even if in the future then they will comit a little stronger and have something more 'concrete' to develop the club on and make salable asap so we can all get rid!

Breaching a contractual obligation to make a point-that's the calibre of people in charge of the club. Why have they not explained the ARVO move yet? Because nobody's asked them; so I can only assume they think they've got away with that one (unless they browse these forums). I admire you for being able to take a positive view on our prospects under SISU-because I sure can't, and many other fans feel the same way.

Wrenstreetcarpark · May 6, 2012

Glen said:
Joe Elliot lining his pocket and fucking us all hoff deal over the the club has gone

If you make a claim like that put up your facts

or shut the fuck up.

georgehudson · May 6, 2012

blatant subterfuge continues from our controllers & serves only to confuse matters, is this to their own purpose ?
methinks 'kd' (kduffy) doth protest too much in favour of you know who,
perhaps torch has an ally, we know nothing,
after all, we, i hope, all want the best for CCFC
pusb

Jack Griffin · May 6, 2012

So many people post here with unrealistic expectations or apocalyptic scenarions.

I don't think either will happen. I do hold out a little bit of hope AT will be allowed a budget to wheel & deal a bit (based on Fisher quoting Seppalla as saying she wants us to bounce right back).
If he can shape a squad to mount a genuine promotion challenge then I think the gripers will go away.. but whether he has the ability to do that remains to be seen.
Next year will be ATs one & only chance to become a respected manager, if he is adequately backed and fails I think it will be back to scouting for him.

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