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Buy the club (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter chinamans view
  • Start date May 6, 2015
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B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #36
Sick Boy said:
If I was an investor and read this forum i'd steer well clear. If a set of fans can embrace a franchise rugby club moving into their stadium, what does it say about their passion for the club?
Click to expand...

What it shows is that we would embrace a new investor should they INVEST. Oh and who are you to question anybody about their passion for the club Mr Faceless.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 7, 2015
  • #37
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
What it shows is that we would embrace a new investor should they INVEST. Oh and who are you to question anybody about their passion for the club Mr Faceless.
Click to expand...

How does it show that??
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #38
Sick Boy said:
How does it show that??
Click to expand...

Because we're friendly people and will embrace anybody. Hell I'd even embrace you
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #39
chiefdave said:
I think the best we can hope for now is 50 / 50 ownership with Wasps keeping all income from rugby and us keeping all income from football.

Anything less than receiving the money we generate puts us behind every other club. Even if we receive that we are still somewhat behind as other clubs receive non-matchday income but the impact wouldn't be so severe if we were getting all the money the football club generated.
Click to expand...

Now that I agree with, if what's in bold happened.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #40
Astute said:
The SISU investors have paid for a 50% stake in the bonds for the Ricoh
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Could the bonds be sold on later on to another party?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #41
Ian1779 said:
Could the bonds be sold on later on to another party?
Click to expand...

They normally can be. The value can go up or down. If it looks a safe investment the price can go up. If it looks dodgy the price can fall.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #42
Astute said:
They normally can be. The value can go up or down. If it looks a safe investment the price can go up. If it looks dodgy the price can fall.
Click to expand...

So.. hypothetically, say 2/3 years in if the return on them looks dodgy, another party could come along and buy them off bond holders at a negotiated price in which would give them at least something back on them.

After all the ability to deliver on the deal will ultimately come down to success on the pitch.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #43
Ian1779 said:
So.. hypothetically, say 2/3 years in if the return on them looks dodgy, another party could come along and buy them off bond holders at a negotiated price in which would give them at least something back on them.

After all the ability to deliver on the deal will ultimately come down to success on the pitch.
Click to expand...

Without reading the prospectus I would say yes. Not a gamble I would like to take, although I did consider it as it gave a good return but if it fails we would have a decent chance of getting the arena. It looks like the bonds are secured on the lease. So the bonds will always have a value as long as someone wants the lease.
 

singers_pore

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #44
Yes, but the lease was valued at 48.5m which is pure fantasy. Personally I wouldn't touch those bonds with a barge pole.
 

skyblueinBaku

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #45
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
I got rid of my mad Russian
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So did I. Later, I married another one!
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #46
Astute said:
Now they can pay CCC the 14m plus and give Richardson his 10m plus back. So this leaves about 10m. Richardson said they were taking a bit extra so they had the first few interest payments already. But they are paying interest on this :thinking about: So does this mean that about another 4m is spoken for?

So they now have to pay over 2m a year in interest and then find 35m in 7 years. So in the next 7 years they have to pay back over 50m They have been giving away lots of tickets in the hope of getting people hooked. But giving away tickets doesn't mean getting new supporters. If they did we would give away 10k a week.

If being in debt makes you rich I will cheer the wife up. She wants a big seafront house around the corner from us that has just come up for sale. We have no debt at all other than a credit card I pay off each month. So we are poor. But if we buy the house she wants we will need a mortgage of about 100k. By the sound of it that will make us rich
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Not bad really Sisu say they have spent that in their time here and what do we have to show for it?

A training ground half a squad and a demise in the supporter base.

So have the wasps just spent more wisely?
They now own their own ground are after a world class player or two and have more then doubled their fan base all in one season.
 
Last edited: May 7, 2015
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #47
singers_pore said:
Yes, but the lease was valued at 48.5m which is pure fantasy. Personally I wouldn't touch those bonds with a barge pole.
Click to expand...

The effect of forfeiture would be that the 250 year HeadLease would fall away and that ACL would then become the tenant
of CCC at the Arena for the remaining 38 years of its existing lease

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/prices-and-markets/retail-bonds/newrecent/was1-2022.htm Page 17

Now that's a worry?
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #48
singers_pore said:
Yes, but the lease was valued at 48.5m which is pure fantasy. Personally I wouldn't touch those bonds with a barge pole.
Click to expand...

You don't need too they are sold out.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #49
oldfiver said:
The effect of forfeiture would be that the 250 year HeadLease would fall away and that ACL would then become the tenant
of CCC at the Arena for the remaining 38 years of its existing lease

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/prices-and-markets/retail-bonds/newrecent/was1-2022.htm Page 17

Now that's a worry?
Click to expand...

How could that happen? The CCC share is paid for. The Higgs share is paid for. The outstanding loan will be paid for.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #50
Astute said:
How could that happen? The CCC share is paid for. The Higgs share is paid for. The outstanding loan will be paid for.
Click to expand...

That's the terms that were agreed at the time of purchase.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #51
Astute said:
Now they can pay CCC the 14m plus and give Richardson his 10m plus back. So this leaves about 10m. Richardson said they were taking a bit extra so they had the first few interest payments already. But they are paying interest on this :thinking about: So does this mean that about another 4m is spoken for?

So they now have to pay over 2m a year in interest and then find 35m in 7 years. So in the next 7 years they have to pay back over 50m They have been giving away lots of tickets in the hope of getting people hooked. But giving away tickets doesn't mean getting new supporters. If they did we would give away 10k a week.

If being in debt makes you rich I will cheer the wife up. She wants a big seafront house around the corner from us that has just come up for sale. We have no debt at all other than a credit card I pay off each month. So we are poor. But if we buy the house she wants we will need a mortgage of about 100k. By the sound of it that will make us rich
Click to expand...

They are also paying back the £4 million owed to the other creditor.

The rest will support cash flow.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #52
Grendel said:
That's the terms that were agreed at the time of purchase.
Click to expand...

The terms of what purchase?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #53
Astute said:
The terms of what purchase?
Click to expand...

The purchase by wasps. If the company becomes liquidated the original lease is re-in acted. It's s bizarre arrangement really.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #54
Grendel said:
The purchase by wasps. If the company becomes liquidated the original lease is re-in acted. It's s bizarre arrangement really.
Click to expand...

That is a strange one.

If legally binding they will either make sure they don't get liquidated or would sell the lease if in trouble.
 

Bantam48

New Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #55
Otis said:
Doesn't help when you marry mad Russians either.
Click to expand...

Oooh, those crazy Russians......
 
E

egastap

New Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #56
Samo said:
Yes you are right. But not because of our negativity, because the council sold our future to a London rugby club.
Click to expand...

But wasn't that because the Football Club said REPEATEDLY they didn't want it? I don't know which party is in power over there, but I believe it was unanimous across the spectrum that the only suitor in town was the new Coventry Wasps. Pretty easy decision in my book. Can't understand why you can't seem to grasp that!
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 7, 2015
  • #57
egastap said:
But wasn't that because the Football Club said REPEATEDLY they didn't want it? I don't know which party is in power over there, but I believe it was unanimous across the spectrum that the only suitor in town was the new Coventry Wasps. Pretty easy decision in my book. Can't understand why you can't seem to grasp that!
Click to expand...

What about all of the statements the council were making about it being wrong to move teams and how teams belong in their home cities etc about a month before it came out it had been sold?
 
4

4waspsting

Active Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #58
Who would buy a club that has nothing just a name
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #59
egastap said:
But wasn't that because the Football Club said REPEATEDLY they didn't want it? I don't know which party is in power over there, but I believe it was unanimous across the spectrum that the only suitor in town was the new Coventry Wasps. Pretty easy decision in my book. Can't understand why you can't seem to grasp that!
Click to expand...

It was the owners saying that. Pretty much no one believed them of course. And while we were constantly being told by CCC and Higgs that ACL was doing perfectly well without the club the expectation was it would remain owned by CCC and Higgs until the club had new owners.

As for Wasps being the only suitor that's impossible to know thanks to the way the deal was done in secret. I've said many times if ACL needed to be sold it should have been an open processes with all interested parties bidding based on the same terms of purchase. Maybe if they'd done that the amount they received would have been nearer the £45m Wasps now claim it is worth as opposed to the £6m they actually recieved.
 
E

egastap

New Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #60
Nick said:
What about all of the statements the council were making about it being wrong to move teams and how teams belong in their home cities etc about a month before it came out it had been sold?
Click to expand...

That's why they'll be known as the COVENTRY WASPS soon enough. Coventry the only City with 3 professional Rugby teams......soon, right? (For those who don't get the 60's style sarcasm.....that's 2 Rugger teams and 1 in Rugby).
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 7, 2015
  • #61
egastap said:
That's why they'll be known as the COVENTRY WASPS soon enough. Coventry the only City with 3 professional Rugby teams......soon, right? (For those who don't get the 60's style sarcasm.....that's 2 Rugger teams and 1 in Rugby).
Click to expand...

So people won't mind if CCFC just changes it's name then. Panic over!
 
E

egastap

New Member
  • May 7, 2015
  • #62
Nick said:
So people won't mind if CCFC just changes it's name then. Panic over!
Click to expand...

Not so great a deal for me, as I have lived with franchising for 34 years. I can see how that might be an issue for some of you over there though.
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #63
Funny how posters are still moaning about the council yet they are voted back in to power so most residents must be happy with them.
 

Covstu

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #64
letsallsingtogether said:
Funny how posters are still moaning about the council yet they are voted back in to power so most residents must be happy with them.
Click to expand...

clearly we are the minority then....
 
E

egastap

New Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #65
chiefdave said:
It was the owners saying that. Pretty much no one believed them of course. And while we were constantly being told by CCC and Higgs that ACL was doing perfectly well without the club the expectation was it would remain owned by CCC and Higgs until the club had new owners.

As for Wasps being the only suitor that's impossible to know thanks to the way the deal was done in secret. I've said many times if ACL needed to be sold it should have been an open processes with all interested parties bidding based on the same terms of purchase. Maybe if they'd done that the amount they received would have been nearer the £45m Wasps now claim it is worth as opposed to the £6m they actually recieved.
Click to expand...

"as opposed to the £6m they actually received" .....£6 mill + £14 mill mortgage = £ 20 mill in my math Dave.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #66
egastap said:
"as opposed to the £6m they actually received" .....£6 mill + £14 mill mortgage = £ 20 mill in my math Dave.
Click to expand...

the mortgage is not part of the purchase cost.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #67
chiefdave said:
the mortgage is not part of the purchase cost.
Click to expand...

Eh? I've not been following, but surely if you take £14m worth of debt off someone you've paid £14m. What am I missing?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #68
shmmeee said:
Eh? I've not been following, but surely if you take £14m worth of debt off someone you've paid £14m. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

The valuation of the business for sharehder value would be the price at purchase.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #69
shmmeee said:
Eh? I've not been following, but surely if you take £14m worth of debt off someone you've paid £14m. What am I missing?
Click to expand...


They paid the 6m approx to take on 13.4m debt. So yes the long term cost was 20m but they paid the 6m.

Or would you like to say that it was even more as the bond issue has a high interest rate payable considering the rate of inflation so the 13.4m plus 6m...which has been financed on the bond issue....is all interest payable? 20m a year@6.5% is 1.3m off the top of my head.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • May 8, 2015
  • #70
shmmeee said:
Eh? I've not been following, but surely if you take £14m worth of debt off someone you've paid £14m. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

How much did CCC pay Yorkshire Bank for the mortgage?
 
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