Brexit/SISU (1 Viewer)

skybluetony176 · Nov 8, 2016

Astute said:
Most didn't listen to a single word Boris or Farage said. But they supposedly swung the vote. And the lies from the remain lot supposedly never made a difference. Well according to you anyway.

The big difference is that the remain campaign didn't promise change, again put the BS to one side. If remain won we wouldn't be having a debate on what remain means. The leave campaign promised change and there was more than one version of what that change would be. Kingokings voted for one version but the closest to a person promising it isn't and probably never will be in a position to deliver it. If the changes don't happen that kingokings believe he voted for but change's more inline with what Boris was selling as leave does i.e. leave the EU, remain in the single market who's lied to him? The leave campaign or the remain campaign? Who's let him down? The remain campaign or the leave campaign? Or is the actual answer a version of the leave campaign as it was ambiguous?

dadgad · Nov 8, 2016

Ashdown said:
What a fucking load of rubbish that is ! Unworkable ?? Why ??

I'll number the points to make it easier to grasp;

1) nobody knows what they can have or what will be accepted.
2) the remainders in parliament outnumber the brexiteers
3) Scotland want to remain, which is not compatible with leave
4) we want access to the 'single market' without any of the non negotiable rules;
Free movement of goods, services and people. Impossible.
5) We will have to employ an entire civil service from scratch to unpick all the rules, laws and constitutional issues
before we can begin to negotiate and transposing new trade deals. This could take a decade, by which time we'll be a banana republic
6) The Irish problem; Nobody can contemplate border controls that currently enjoys 30,000 crossings a day so clearly access to the U.K. (CTA) by immigrants will be a cinch. Can we have our borders back? Errrr NO.

Ultimately the forces of control and stability will erode the wishes of Hard Brexiteers who are lunatics anyway. They will be marginalized as the soft of soft brexits is negotiated. Whether this prevents the break up of the union, remains to be seen.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
The big difference is that the remain campaign didn't promise change

BINGO

You hit the nail on the head. Now try to decipher the information in your own head

Our population is going up by an average of 1m every 3 years since we had open borders and poorer countries joined the EU. We have record homelessness. We have record amounts of people living in temporary accommodation. Food banks are now a way of life for so many people....especially working people. They can't afford the rents they have to pay. And how many are on zero hours contracts? It isn't about signs put on busses. Or how much more the NHS would get. It also isn't about racists taking over our country. It is about real people and real life. It is about the daily struggle to survive. It is about people becoming pensioners who still have their kids at home because they can't afford to move out. Or them remortgaging to give them a deposit for their own place. In some areas you have whole streets renting out sheds for families to live in....and not cheaply....because they can't get anything else. Professional people being priced out of the housing market. So what chance do the rest have? And you think it was good that they didn't offer change?

Cameron tried to say that there would be change. That we were in conversation on getting control of our borders back. But the EU called it out as a lie.

So which part of 'no change' do you think that people voted for?

Look at America. They are going to vote in someone considered to be racist. He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. I can see it all ending up very badly. Riots on the streets. Nuclear war threats. I can see him being the next American president to get assassinated.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

And I now await a worldwide stock market movement and await someone to blame it on us voting to leave the EU once Trump wins in America.

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Astute said:
BINGO

You hit the nail on the head. Now try to decipher the information in your own head

Our population is going up by an average of 1m every 3 years since we had open borders and poorer countries joined the EU. We have record homelessness. We have record amounts of people living in temporary accommodation. Food banks are now a way of life for so many people....especially working people. They can't afford the rents they have to pay. And how many are on zero hours contracts? It isn't about signs put on busses. Or how much more the NHS would get. It also isn't about racists taking over our country. It is about real people and real life. It is about the daily struggle to survive. It is about people becoming pensioners who still have their kids at home because they can't afford to move out. Or them remortgaging to give them a deposit for their own place. In some areas you have whole streets renting out sheds for families to live in....and not cheaply....because they can't get anything else. Professional people being priced out of the housing market. So what chance do the rest have? And you think it was good that they didn't offer change?

Cameron tried to say that there would be change. That we were in conversation on getting control of our borders back. But the EU called it out as a lie.

So which part of 'no change' do you think that people voted for?

Look at America. They are going to vote in someone considered to be racist. He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. I can see it all ending up very badly. Riots on the streets. Nuclear war threats. I can see him being the next American president to get assassinated.

So it's all the immigrants' fault and nothing to do with austerity cuts or free market forces?

Lucky we have a right wing government to deal with these problems then.

Now looks like we will have a successful businessman to help the poor as well.

Advice to Theresa: keep your hands over your pussy when dealing with Mr President,

You could not make this up.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
So it's all the immigrants' fault and nothing to do with austerity cuts or free market forces?

Lucky we have a right wing government to deal with these problems then.

Now looks like we will have a successful businessman to help the poor as well.

Advice to Theresa: keep your hands over your pussy when dealing with Mr President,

You could not make this up.

Why do you keep having to make idiotic comments? Yes you have made it up yet again.

Are you now saying that Trump will be good for the world?

I don't know what it is like to live in Germany like you do. But I know what it is like to live in a country that you have not lived in for many years. And saying about homelessness which is a real thing over here is not racist.

If you was homeless would you vote for it to stay the same? Of course you would if it meant your country keeping it's claws in the UK.

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Astute said:
Why do you keep having to make idiotic comments? Yes you have made it up yet again.

Are you now saying that Trump will be good for the world?

I don't know what it is like to live in Germany like you do. But I know what it is like to live in a country that you have not lived in for many years. And saying about homelessness which is a real thing over here is not racist.

If you was homeless would you vote for it to stay the same? Of course you would if it meant your country keeping it's claws in the UK.

If I were homeless I wouldn't vote UKIP or Tory.

'My country' hasn't got it's claws in the UK. The U.K. Is responsible for it's austerity cuts and it's housing policy.

Are you seriously asking me if Farage's buddy is good for the world? If so, you must have been on something last night.

You may as well ask me why I think Farage is good for Britain.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
Now looks like we will have a successful businessman to help the poor as well.

You was saying?

Make it up as you go along I see. If you voted out of the EU you say they are racists. Vote for Trump and you get a successful business man.

I now await your backtrack.

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Astute said:
You was saying?

Make it up as you go along I see. If you voted out of the EU you say they are racists. Vote for Trump and you get a successful business man.

I now await your backtrack.

Are you doubting that Trump is a successful businessman?

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
Are you doubting that Trump is a successful businessman?

Are you doubting he is a racist?

Otis · Nov 9, 2016

He may well be successful, but there has always been a lot of cloud over the way he has conducted his business and his payment of taxes and fairness to his employees.

Sky Blue Kid · Nov 9, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
What did Cameron say exactly? I remember him saying plenty of times that we'll be left with a Norway situation if we vote out. What do you think the Norway situation is?

This is what he said Tony...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jI-ApZA-GA

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Astute said:
Are you doubting he is a racist?

Not in the slightest

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
Not in the slightest

So is it OK because he is a successful businessman or is it backtrack time?

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Astute said:
So is it OK because he is a successful businessman or is it backtrack time?

Sarcasm. You don't get it today do you? Do you really think I want to defend BrexitXL?

Otis · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
Sarcasm. You don't get it today do you? Do you really think I want to defend BrexitXL?

If it's the US it's BrexitXXXL.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
Sarcasm. You don't get it today do you? Do you really think I want to defend BrexitXL?

You don't do sarcasm. You do calling people racist when they are clearly not. Or is that now sarcasm?

Captain Dart · Nov 9, 2016

dadgad said:
Apparently, in a recent poll, the REGREXITEERS outnumber the margin of victory for Brexit.

I think as it becomes increasingly apparent that it is unworkable (and not in our or anybody's interests) Parliament will have no option but to block it.

It is club EU that is unworkable.

I guess your wisdom tells you the US presidential election should be rurun because it was close and wasn't the result you wanted (nor the one I wanted either, but that's beside the point).

Ashdown · Nov 9, 2016

Oh my, what a bad night for MartCov and his European wet dream ! Trump has just shown the Western world once again that despite everything the establishment could throw against him, the will of the ordinary working class people of the USA has come through. How bad can they have thought of Clinton, some may say, but all she offered was a load more of the same indoctrination, the same globalisation, the same inequalities, the same nation destroying mass immigration, positive discrimination, overt political correctness and all the other bollocks that was rejected out of sight here too !! Europe is next Mart, Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, it's a revolution against those who might squeal loudest but are vastly outnumbered by the disenfranchised and left behind !

Ashdown · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
So it's all the immigrants' fault and nothing to do with austerity cuts or free market forces?

Lucky we have a right wing government to deal with these problems then.

Now looks like we will have a successful businessman to help the poor as well.

Advice to Theresa: keep your hands over your pussy when dealing with Mr President,

You could not make this up.

When the socialists and do gooders can focus on helping their own people and not try and solve the problems of half the world as well, then we'll all join that club I'm sure. In the meantime, it's unworkable, unaffordable and dangerous !

Captain Dart · Nov 9, 2016

chiefdave said:
How have you worked that out? Scotland voted remain, if the Scottish parliament rules with the majority in the country they are the parliament of they will vote against invoking article 50.

I don't think you have a scooby on how UK law works.

Captain Dart · Nov 9, 2016

chiefdave said:
Voting remain was voting for things to stay the same.

Wrong, it was voting for a trend towards greater political, military and fiscal integration and centralised control to continue.

chiefdave · Nov 9, 2016

Captain Dart said:
I don't think you have a scooby on how UK law works.

Care to enlighten us? The application for Scotland to be heard in the appeal is an attempt to persuade them that all devolved parliaments get a vote on article 50. If that happens then every parliament needs to give their approval.

Given you state members of those parliaments must vote in line with the wishes of their constituents the Scottish and NI parliaments will vote against invoking article 50.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Nov 9, 2016

Captain Dart said:
Wrong, it was voting for a trend towards greater political, military and fiscal integration and centralised control to continue.

Exactly......It was also a vote to rubber stamp the ECB (& IMF) harmful & shameful policy of bullying sovereign nations into policy against the will of the people.
It was a big "yes please" to continue to obscene protection of the banks at all costs, much to the detriment of the ordinary man & the small business.
It was a big tick to continue the corporatisation of the public sector bodies & organisations, the accelerated privatization of the NHS, the wage suppression of the working classes & the exploitation of economic migrants.......

Ashdown · Nov 9, 2016

chiefdave said:
Care to enlighten us? The application for Scotland to be heard in the appeal is an attempt to persuade them that all devolved parliaments get a vote on article 50. If that happens then every parliament needs to give their approval.

Given you state members of those parliaments must vote in line with the wishes of their constituents the Scottish and NI parliaments will vote against invoking article 50.

It's just the overly clever legal bollocks designed to thwart the will of the majority. It's just this sort of process that alienates ordinary people.

Captain Dart · Nov 9, 2016

chiefdave said:
Care to enlighten us? The application for Scotland to be heard in the appeal is an attempt to persuade them that all devolved parliaments get a vote on article 50. If that happens then every parliament needs to give their approval.

Given you state members of those parliaments must vote in line with the wishes of their constituents the Scottish and NI parliaments will vote against invoking article 50.

I don't claim legal knowledge but the law is the UK law and applies to Scotland and Northern Ireland. My guess is that this appeal is both a delaying tactic and one that appeals to SNP voters. Ultimately it will be pointless and wasteful.

chiefdave · Nov 9, 2016

Captain Dart said:
I don't claim legal knowledge but the law is the UK law and applies to Scotland and Northern Ireland. My guess is that this appeal is both a delaying tactic and one that appeals to SNP voters. Ultimately it will be pointless and wasteful.

But the appeal wasn't made by Scotland it was May and the Conservatives. All the SNP have done is ask that they are represented at the trial.

The law is the law but the law isn't without ambiguity. The law states article 50 has to be approved by parliament. The ruling in the courts upheld that as invoking article 50 and leaving the EU will require changes to UK law and therefore must be voted on in parliament. So then you have to take the Sewel convention into account which states that anything that impacts Scotland requires the approval of their parliament. That means their parliament will have to vote on approval of a legislative consent motion. If they vote no how does our parliament then invoke article 50?

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Astute said:
You don't do sarcasm. You do calling people racist when they are clearly not. Or is that now sarcasm?

Are you now saying Trump is clearly not a racist? And I do do sarcasm. And some people clearly are racist - not you though.

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Ashdown said:
It's just the overly clever legal bollocks designed to thwart the will of the majority. It's just this sort of process that alienates ordinary people.

The majority in Scotland and Northern Ireland think that their will is being thwarted by people like you. It cuts both ways.

martcov · Nov 9, 2016

Ashdown said:
Oh my, what a bad night for MartCov and his European wet dream ! Trump has just shown the Western world once again that despite everything the establishment could throw against him, the will of the ordinary working class people of the USA has come through. How bad can they have thought of Clinton, some may say, but all she offered was a load more of the same indoctrination, the same globalisation, the same inequalities, the same nation destroying mass immigration, positive discrimination, overt political correctness and all the other bollocks that was rejected out of sight here too !! Europe is next Mart, Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, it's a revolution against those who might squeal loudest but are vastly outnumbered by the disenfranchised and left behind !

Been there, done that..... Won't happen again in Germany. Those who shout the loudest are not necessarily right. We have heard about mass immigration destroying nations before and have seen what happens when doing away with political correctness is taken to it's logical conclusion. Where the majority follows the leader unquestioningly.

The ordinary working class have just voted for a rich businessman with a record of bankruptcies, not paying craftsmen, not paying taxes and generally acting like an egoistic maniac. I think they may wish that they had read the smallprint.

A true man of the people. Enjoy......

The working class would have been better off if they had been given the chance to vote for Sanders. Someone who actually wanted to change the system for the better.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
And I do do sarcasm. And some people clearly are racist - not you though.

Are you being sarcastic and calling me a racist?

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

martcov said:
Been there, done that..... Won't happen again in Germany. Those who shout the loudest are not necessarily right.

We know that. You have been shouting louder than anyone else.

clint van damme · Nov 9, 2016

chiefdave said:
But the appeal wasn't made by Scotland it was May and the Conservatives. All the SNP have done is ask that they are represented at the trial.

The law is the law but the law isn't without ambiguity. The law states article 50 has to be approved by parliament. The ruling in the courts upheld that as invoking article 50 and leaving the EU will require changes to UK law and therefore must be voted on in parliament. So then you have to take the Sewel convention into account which states that anything that impacts Scotland requires the approval of their parliament. That means their parliament will have to vote on approval of a legislative consent motion. If they vote no how does our parliament then invoke article 50?

UK remains and Scotlands to blame. May is a very shrewd lady, she knew exactly what she was doing when she tried invoke royal prerogative.

Astute · Nov 9, 2016

clint van damme said:
UK remains and Scotlands to blame. May is a very shrewd lady, she knew exactly what she was doing when she tried invoke royal prerogative.

What was that then?

chiefdave · Nov 9, 2016

clint van damme said:
UK remains and Scotlands to blame. May is a very shrewd lady, she knew exactly what she was doing when she tried invoke royal prerogative.

The longer this drags on the more I'm inclined to agree with that view. The best course of action was to get the vote in parliament done ASAP after the referendum. Would have been tricky then for it to be opposed. The longer it drags on and goes into court the more complex things become and there more chance there is of it never happening.

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