CCFC_GT
New Member
A summary of my previous posts:-
... I don't trust the FL to do what is right or follow their rule book, and I am worried that we might waste 3 to 5 years hanging on to the hope that CCFC will return to the Cov area, which might never happen. SISU might even have a hidden agenda to develop their franchise in Northampton long term. In the meantime a phoenix club would at least give some CCFC fans an alternative on Saturdays and couldn't do any harm. In 3 to 5 years both clubs could be at or around the same level anyway. Agree with others we don't need 2 or 3 phoenix clubs though, just one with a CCFC focus.
... Having slept on this, people are right in saying that we the supporters are the football club, and I would support the creation of a phoenix club created solely for the purpose of being the new CCFC. Before anyone suggests otherwise, this doesn't have to split the fans and we should all accept how each of us chooses to follow our club without pointless bickering. Nor should this mean that we give up hope or stop fighting to get the legal entity of our original club back from SISU/Northampton because that is what we all want. It is just that we may never succeed in getting this and plan B should start now rather than in 3 to 5 years time. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.
Adopting Sphinx or following the new club the local businessmen have recently been promoting just wouldn't cut it for me, because to gain my support the sole and clear purpose of the phoenix club from the beginning should be a continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC by us the fans.
To this end I would also suggest that it would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture by making the Ricoh available to the phoenix club without charge as it's home right from the start in the Midland Combination, with revenues all going to the football club to enable investment to give it the greatest chance of year on year promotions. Yes we would be rattling around in a huge stadium but at least it would feel like home and it would encourage support. Better still if PH4 buys a stake in the Ricoh and invests in the phoenix club rather than loading debt onto it.
The club colours would be sky blue and we would all sing traditional sky blues songs. It just gives us another option rather than waiting to see what happens at some point years ahead.
... what if the terms of (PH4) buying into the Ricoh include making an initial (or continuing) non-controlling investment into the football club. Again I would say that it is in the long term interests of CCC/ACL to have a successful football club in the city, and so they should support such a term.
... there doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back.
... So unless the FL decides SISU is not fit & proper, or something gives between SISU and ACL, what have CCC/ACL to lose by agreeing to make the phoenix club at the Ricoh a viable possibility during it's early development until it can afford to contribute to costs whilst still having access to revenues.
... This means for me that the phoenix club should be just like a continuation of CCFC playing at the Ricoh wearing sky blue kit and singing sky blue songs with the full and clear intention of becoming the new CCFC if we can't get the old one back.
Finally I would stress that this shouldn't be seen as giving up on getting CCFC back, or a black and white choice between choosing to follow phoenix/startup or CCFC. Personally I would hope to see as many CCFC away games as I can and as many phoenix/startup home games as I can. It should be remembered as well that many CCFC home supporters will simply not be able to or be willing to make the effort to go to Northampton and this may be the only realistic option for them.
I just don't see what we would have to lose.
My reply to BSB:-
1. If CCC/ACL wouldn't let a fledgling phoenix/start-up use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games then I agree the club would not be viable at the Ricoh. But I hope I have already set out several reasons for a positive outcome on this:-
a) There doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back. So my question would be what are the better alternatives available to CCC/ACL?
b) It would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture (unless we can get CCFC back)
c) If, despite my arguments above, CCC/ACL are still not prepared to allow the fledgling club to grow with revenues on a free of charge basis until it is able to contribute to costs, then I see another possible option. It is reported that PH4 intends to proceed with the purchase of a half share of the Ricoh. In contracts it is quite normal for CCC to insist on various pre-conditions such as building infrastructure etc., and in the case of the Ricoh I believe it would be in CCC/ACL interests to insist (because it would be in CCC/ACL long term interests to do so) that any investment in the Ricoh goes hand in hand with an initial or on-going investment in the fledgling club to cover costs until the club is able to cover through revenues.
2. I agree with you that there will inevitably be some polarisation of the fan base, because it already exists, and as Stewpot detailed there are already various categories of supporter. where we will all end up will depend on what happens. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back from SISU/Northampton we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.
3. if PH4 buys a half share in the Ricoh that makes this all the more possible. IF PH4 is the principal investor (without loading debt) in the phoenix club and ultimately the successful purchaser of CCFC at some stage in the future that would ease this process. All the time, energy and money put into the 'phoenix' club for me from the outset should be for the purpose of reuniting us the supporters who are the club with the legal entity of CCFC within Coventry by hopefully persuading SISU to sell, or if that can't happen then giving us a vehicle for continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC at the Ricoh.
My reply to BSB:-
If you read again you will see that my point is not based on optimism that PH4 will want to invest in a Midlands Combination club, though from a public relations angle it is quite conceivable that he might be quite willing to do so anyway even if this is initially by not levying costs on the club to play there (avoiding any possible regulations on investment in the club). What additional costs that ACL doesn't already face would be incurred by opening one stand once a fortnight and maintaining the pitch to Midland Combination level? Costs for policing and stewarding would be relative to the size of crowd anyway, and the greater the crowd the greater the income for the club from tickets, kit merchandise and possibly even catering, and with that the possibility to contribute to costs through income. I have thrown catering in there as well because what has compass got to lose, would it rather have 100% of nothing or 50% of something? I have never indulged in the catering on offer at the Ricoh out of principle but would if I knew my club would benefit.
I fully accept that if PH4/ACL have some grandiose alternative development plan for the Ricoh and surrounding area that maybe includes roofing the stadium to provide a year round concert and exhibition venue to try and rival the NEC, then the doors to the Ricoh will be closed to the football club for good, and we will have all parties involved on all sides to thank for that IMHO. I guess we will find out PH4 proposals soon enough. Other than this I don't see any other options for the stadium that don't include a Coventry football club.
I take your point about sharing the Cov rugby ground as an alternative option, and though personally this would not be my preferred option of the two, I would go with this idea too, though I would be concerned about the state of the pitch with any ground sharing scheme. To me also playing at the Ricoh would be a greater symbol of ambition and intent which may in turn attract greater support.
As has been pointed out, it is probably too late to organise and register a team for this season anyway, and by the start of next season the future or otherwise of CCFC will hopefully be clearer, but at this stage I don't trust SISU to follow through with the declared plan of returning to a new stadium close to Coventry, and nor do I believe it would be achievable in three years taking into account planning considerations.
We will also find out soon enough whether all our protestations and petitioning have achieved anything, and maybe then the only option we then have left will be to consider our options for the years ahead and what continuing influence (losses greater than they have budgeted for by not attending home matches in Northampton, and future uncertainty for their franchise through the creation of a new club) we can try to bring to bear on SISU to return to Cov or sell up. The alternative would be to do nothing which surely would be destined to fail. That is why we should debate all options now, and in no way means we should give up on CCFC.
... I don't trust the FL to do what is right or follow their rule book, and I am worried that we might waste 3 to 5 years hanging on to the hope that CCFC will return to the Cov area, which might never happen. SISU might even have a hidden agenda to develop their franchise in Northampton long term. In the meantime a phoenix club would at least give some CCFC fans an alternative on Saturdays and couldn't do any harm. In 3 to 5 years both clubs could be at or around the same level anyway. Agree with others we don't need 2 or 3 phoenix clubs though, just one with a CCFC focus.
... Having slept on this, people are right in saying that we the supporters are the football club, and I would support the creation of a phoenix club created solely for the purpose of being the new CCFC. Before anyone suggests otherwise, this doesn't have to split the fans and we should all accept how each of us chooses to follow our club without pointless bickering. Nor should this mean that we give up hope or stop fighting to get the legal entity of our original club back from SISU/Northampton because that is what we all want. It is just that we may never succeed in getting this and plan B should start now rather than in 3 to 5 years time. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.
Adopting Sphinx or following the new club the local businessmen have recently been promoting just wouldn't cut it for me, because to gain my support the sole and clear purpose of the phoenix club from the beginning should be a continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC by us the fans.
To this end I would also suggest that it would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture by making the Ricoh available to the phoenix club without charge as it's home right from the start in the Midland Combination, with revenues all going to the football club to enable investment to give it the greatest chance of year on year promotions. Yes we would be rattling around in a huge stadium but at least it would feel like home and it would encourage support. Better still if PH4 buys a stake in the Ricoh and invests in the phoenix club rather than loading debt onto it.
The club colours would be sky blue and we would all sing traditional sky blues songs. It just gives us another option rather than waiting to see what happens at some point years ahead.
... what if the terms of (PH4) buying into the Ricoh include making an initial (or continuing) non-controlling investment into the football club. Again I would say that it is in the long term interests of CCC/ACL to have a successful football club in the city, and so they should support such a term.
... there doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back.
... So unless the FL decides SISU is not fit & proper, or something gives between SISU and ACL, what have CCC/ACL to lose by agreeing to make the phoenix club at the Ricoh a viable possibility during it's early development until it can afford to contribute to costs whilst still having access to revenues.
... This means for me that the phoenix club should be just like a continuation of CCFC playing at the Ricoh wearing sky blue kit and singing sky blue songs with the full and clear intention of becoming the new CCFC if we can't get the old one back.
Finally I would stress that this shouldn't be seen as giving up on getting CCFC back, or a black and white choice between choosing to follow phoenix/startup or CCFC. Personally I would hope to see as many CCFC away games as I can and as many phoenix/startup home games as I can. It should be remembered as well that many CCFC home supporters will simply not be able to or be willing to make the effort to go to Northampton and this may be the only realistic option for them.
I just don't see what we would have to lose.
My reply to BSB:-
1. If CCC/ACL wouldn't let a fledgling phoenix/start-up use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games then I agree the club would not be viable at the Ricoh. But I hope I have already set out several reasons for a positive outcome on this:-
a) There doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back. So my question would be what are the better alternatives available to CCC/ACL?
b) It would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture (unless we can get CCFC back)
c) If, despite my arguments above, CCC/ACL are still not prepared to allow the fledgling club to grow with revenues on a free of charge basis until it is able to contribute to costs, then I see another possible option. It is reported that PH4 intends to proceed with the purchase of a half share of the Ricoh. In contracts it is quite normal for CCC to insist on various pre-conditions such as building infrastructure etc., and in the case of the Ricoh I believe it would be in CCC/ACL interests to insist (because it would be in CCC/ACL long term interests to do so) that any investment in the Ricoh goes hand in hand with an initial or on-going investment in the fledgling club to cover costs until the club is able to cover through revenues.
2. I agree with you that there will inevitably be some polarisation of the fan base, because it already exists, and as Stewpot detailed there are already various categories of supporter. where we will all end up will depend on what happens. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back from SISU/Northampton we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.
3. if PH4 buys a half share in the Ricoh that makes this all the more possible. IF PH4 is the principal investor (without loading debt) in the phoenix club and ultimately the successful purchaser of CCFC at some stage in the future that would ease this process. All the time, energy and money put into the 'phoenix' club for me from the outset should be for the purpose of reuniting us the supporters who are the club with the legal entity of CCFC within Coventry by hopefully persuading SISU to sell, or if that can't happen then giving us a vehicle for continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC at the Ricoh.
My reply to BSB:-
If you read again you will see that my point is not based on optimism that PH4 will want to invest in a Midlands Combination club, though from a public relations angle it is quite conceivable that he might be quite willing to do so anyway even if this is initially by not levying costs on the club to play there (avoiding any possible regulations on investment in the club). What additional costs that ACL doesn't already face would be incurred by opening one stand once a fortnight and maintaining the pitch to Midland Combination level? Costs for policing and stewarding would be relative to the size of crowd anyway, and the greater the crowd the greater the income for the club from tickets, kit merchandise and possibly even catering, and with that the possibility to contribute to costs through income. I have thrown catering in there as well because what has compass got to lose, would it rather have 100% of nothing or 50% of something? I have never indulged in the catering on offer at the Ricoh out of principle but would if I knew my club would benefit.
I fully accept that if PH4/ACL have some grandiose alternative development plan for the Ricoh and surrounding area that maybe includes roofing the stadium to provide a year round concert and exhibition venue to try and rival the NEC, then the doors to the Ricoh will be closed to the football club for good, and we will have all parties involved on all sides to thank for that IMHO. I guess we will find out PH4 proposals soon enough. Other than this I don't see any other options for the stadium that don't include a Coventry football club.
I take your point about sharing the Cov rugby ground as an alternative option, and though personally this would not be my preferred option of the two, I would go with this idea too, though I would be concerned about the state of the pitch with any ground sharing scheme. To me also playing at the Ricoh would be a greater symbol of ambition and intent which may in turn attract greater support.
As has been pointed out, it is probably too late to organise and register a team for this season anyway, and by the start of next season the future or otherwise of CCFC will hopefully be clearer, but at this stage I don't trust SISU to follow through with the declared plan of returning to a new stadium close to Coventry, and nor do I believe it would be achievable in three years taking into account planning considerations.
We will also find out soon enough whether all our protestations and petitioning have achieved anything, and maybe then the only option we then have left will be to consider our options for the years ahead and what continuing influence (losses greater than they have budgeted for by not attending home matches in Northampton, and future uncertainty for their franchise through the creation of a new club) we can try to bring to bear on SISU to return to Cov or sell up. The alternative would be to do nothing which surely would be destined to fail. That is why we should debate all options now, and in no way means we should give up on CCFC.